Kip Powick Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 A passenger plane with more than 50 people on board has gone missing shortly after take-off from the Indonesian capital Jakarta. The Sriwijaya Air Boeing 737 lost contact en route to Pontianak in West Kalimantan province, officials said. Flight tracking website Flightradar24.com said the aircraft had lost more than 3,000m (10,000ft) in altitude in less than a minute. Pictures of what seemed to be aircraft debris appeared on TV and social media. A number of residents of an island near where the plane disappeared told the BBC Indonesian service they had found objects they thought were from the plane. The transport ministry said search and rescue efforts were under way. It said last contact with the plane, with the call sign SJY182, was made at 14:40 local time (07:40 GMT). The exact number of passengers on board is not clear, though it has a capacity of 130. The usual flight time to Pontianak, in the west of the island of Borneo, is an hour-and-a-half. According to registration details, the plane is a 26-year-old Boeing 737-500. Sriwijaya Air, a local budget airline which flies to Indonesian and other South-East Asian destinations, said it was still gathering information about the flight. The plane is not a 737 Max, the Boeing model involved in two major crashes in recent years. The first of those, in October 2018, involved an Indonesian Lion Air flight which plunged into the sea about 12 minutes after take-off from Jakarta killing 189 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Not good news for Boeing based on how it is getting reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 To be sure, the older versions of the B737 such as this aircraft do not have MCAS so causes would be unrelated to the MAX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, Don Hudson said: To be sure, the older versions of the B737 such as this aircraft do not have MCAS so causes would be unrelated to the MAX. Quite right Don but does the general public know or will they simply doubt the safety of Boeing Aircraft in general? It all depends on how the press continues to report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Agree Malcolm. I expect media people come here and aviation sites elsewhere for aircraft type and early opinions on what happened. A single sentence specifying type is quickly readable. Whatever occurred, it was catastrophic with immediate loss of the aircraft. There doesn’t appear to be any rt or distress call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Don: they have evidently already recovered wreckage and the aircraft appears to have went in vertical. Of course the question of a Jackscrew failure is being kicked around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 9 hours ago, Malcolm said: they simply doubt the safety of Boeing Aircraft in general? I think that the public should question the safety of the airlines that are selling the cheapest tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, Fido said: I think that the public should question the safety of the airlines that are selling the cheapest tickets. Sadly it is more about training and culture than cost of the ticket. Note the Mention of BA in the following report. The 2019 List Of The Most Dangerous Airlines In The World (forbes.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southshore Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 I think the 'orphan' 400/500 37's have the same lap joint problems as the classics. With a low cost, high cycle operation in a salt corrosive region, the Hawaii 'convertible' leaps to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Black boxes have been found, hopefully some clues soon. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indonesia-crash/indonesia-locates-black-boxes-of-crashed-jet-as-body-parts-recovered-idUSKBN29F00W Indonesia locates black boxes of crashed jet as body parts recovered JAKARTA (Reuters) - Indonesian authorities on Sunday located the black boxes of the Sriwijaya Air jet that crashed into the sea soon after taking off from the capital Jakarta, as human body parts and pieces of the plane were retrieved. The Boeing 737-500 with 62 passengers and crew was headed on a domestic flight to Pontianak in West Kalimantan on Saturday before it disappeared from radar screens four minutes after take-off. Indonesia National Transport Safety Committee (KNKT) chief Soerjanto Tjahjono said the locations of Flight SJ 182’s two black boxes had been identified. “Hopefully, we can retrieve them soon,” said military chief Hadi Tjahjanto, without giving an estimated timeframe. Search will continue into the night, a search and rescue official said, but efforts will be limited to sonar scans by boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 16 hours ago, Southshore said: I think the 'orphan' 400/500 37's have the same lap joint problems as the classics. With a low cost, high cycle operation in a salt corrosive region, the Hawaii 'convertible' leaps to mind. Highly unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Southshore, the suddenness and near-immediate vertical dive limit speculation to specific causes. Setting aside an intentional act, your notion of structural failure fits generally. Mid-air collision is easy to confirm or rule out. I think the rudder-hardcover theory is possible but improbable. Along the same line of speculation is engine (turbine) disintegration with lower fuselage damage from engine shrapnel & subsequent flight control cable or hydraulic line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsplat Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 I haven't seen the ADS-B raw data, but looking at the kink in the flight track, with any speed at all I think of destructive G loads, even with the extreme descent rate reported. That would have been a test for the tailplane. Has anyone seen superimposed weather? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 I haven't seen superimposed weather but apparently the flight took a 30 minute delay due to thunderstorms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 22 minutes ago, Vsplat said: I haven't seen the ADS-B raw data, but looking at the kink in the flight track, with any speed at all I think of destructive G loads, even with the extreme descent rate reported. That would have been a test for the tailplane. Has anyone seen superimposed weather? re weather this is the only info I have seen: From PPrune Here's a better plot with infrared satellite overlay. While they almost certainly were in IMC when the problem occurred, it doesn't look like they came close to significant CBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Link to video of divers searching for the Black Box. The aircraft is almost completely shredded. Sriwijaya Air crash: Indonesia divers search wreckage as black box hunt resumes - BBC News Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 If there is anything good that can be said about this crash it is the fact that in 75 feet of water, just about everything will be able to be recovered..... Sadly many of the divers are most certainly going to suffer from PTSD because of their role in recovering the victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airband Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Indonesian divers retrieve crashed Sriwijaya Air plane's flight data recorder Plane plunged into the sea on Saturday, four minutes after it left Jakarta's main airport Tue Jan 12, 2021 - Reuters Indonesian divers on Tuesday retrieved from the seabed the flight data recorder of a Sriwijaya Air plane that crashed into the Java Sea with 62 people on board on the weekend, officials said. Divers had also found a separate radio beacon, raising hopes that the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) it was connected to could soon be found and reveal what caused the plane to lose control moments after takeoff. "We are sure that, because the beacon that was attached to the cockpit voice recorder was also found around the area, so with high confidence, the cockpit voice recorder will soon be found," military chief Hadi Tjahjanto said at a news conference. With few immediate clues on what happened after takeoff, investigators will rely heavily on the flight recorders to determine what went wrong. The Boeing 737-500 plane plunged into the sea on Saturday, four minutes after it departed from Jakarta's main airport and disappeared off radar screens. It was the second major air crash in Indonesia since 189 people were killed in 2018 when a Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX plunged into the Java Sea soon after taking off from Jakarta. The jet that crashed on Saturday was of a largely different design. The National Transportation Safety Committee (KNKT) expects to download the flight data recorder's information within two to five days, said agency head Soerjanto Tjahjono. 'Unveil the mystery' "Hopefully we will be able to unveil the mystery of what caused this accident ... so this becomes a lesson for all of us to avoid this in the future," Soerjanto said. Earlier on Tuesday, more human remains were found at the crash site, as well as personal effects, such as wallets containing identification cards. The plane had been headed to Pontianak on Borneo island, about 740 kilometres from Jakarta. The KNKT's initial findings showed the plane's engine was running when it hit the water, based on jet parts retrieved from the sea. "The damage on the fan blade showed that the engine was still working on impact. This is consistent with the hypothesis that the plane's system was still working at 250 feet altitude," Soerjanto said. Indonesia's transport ministry said earlier on Tuesday the jet, which was grounded during the early months of the coronavirus pandemic, had passed an airworthiness inspection on Dec. 14 and had returned to service shortly after. The Sriwijaya Air plane was nearly 27 years old, much older than Boeing's problem-plagued 737 MAX model. Older 737 models are widely flown and do not have the stall-prevention system implicated in the MAX safety crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest1 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Throttle problem suspected in fatal Indonesia crash, investigators say A malfunctioning automatic throttle may have caused the pilots of a Sriwijaya Air jet to lose control, leading to the plane's plunge into the Java Sea last month, Indonesian investigators said Wednesday. National Transportation Safety Committee investigators said they are still struggling to understand why the Boeing jet nosedived into the water minutes after taking off from Jakarta on Jan. 9, killing all 62 people on board. The investigators issued a preliminary report that provided new details of the pilots' struggle to fly the plane from almost as soon as it became airborne. The lead investigator, Nurcahyo Utomo, said the left engine's throttle lever had moved backward on its own while autopilot was engaged, reducing the power output of that engine just before the jet plunged into the sea. He said pilots of previous flights had reported problems with the automatic throttle system on the 26-year-old jet. The Boeing 737-500 was out of service for almost nine months last year because of flight cutbacks caused by the coronavirus pandemic. Regulators and the airline said it underwent inspections before resuming commercial flights in December. Throttle problem suspected in fatal Indonesia crash, investigators say | CBC News Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest1 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Cockpit Voice Recorder Found 3 Months After Sriwijaya 737 Crash - Simple Flying It seems that the investigation into the events that led to the crash of Swriwijaya flight SJ182 will soon be able to take a step forward. The cockpit voice recorder’s memory unit was recovered by divers earlier today and brought to shore in Jakarta. According to Reuters, divers recovered the box in a relatively shallow area. However, the site is reportedly very muddy with a strong current. It is expected to take up to a week for investigators to be able to listen to the recording contained on the memory unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/sriwijaya-air-indonesia-crash-cockpit-voice-recorder-downloaded-14607864 JAKARTA: The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) from a crashed Sriwijaya Air jet has been downloaded successfully, and includes the last minutes of the flight that ended with 62 people dead, an official at Indonesia's air accident investigator said on Monday (Apr 12). The contents of the recording from the 26-year old Boeing 737-500 that crashed shortly after take-off on Jan 9 cannot be disclosed publicly at this stage of the probe, Indonesia National Transportation Safety Committee (KNKT) investigator Nurcahyo Utomo said. "(The data is) good," he told Reuters. "We have downloaded it." READ: Indonesia recovers second black box of Sriwijaya Air jet nearly 3 months after crash READ: Sriwijaya Air crash investigation currently focused on autothrottle system, say Indonesian authorities The CVR was recovered in late March after a near three-month search of the Java Sea. It was found in mud sucked up by a dredging ship and was dried out and cleaned of mud and salt. It contains four channels of audio, including recordings of the captain and first officer, Nurcahyo said. "Each (channel) has the last two hours, including the record of the flight that crashed," he said. The channels will need to be synchronised with each other as well as radio communications and the flight data recorder (FDR) for analysis to help determine the cause of the crash. A preliminary report by KNKT released in February said that the plane had an imbalance in engine thrust that eventually led it into a sharp roll and then a final dive into the sea. The report included information from the FDR. Safety experts say most air accidents are caused by a combination of factors that can take months to establish. Under international standards, the final report is due within a year of the crash. Source: Reuters/kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 Auto throttle problem ??? Is Boeing not like Airbus and you can disengage the auto throttles with a switch ? I find it hard to believe, that no matter what the throttles were doing, the aircraft could not be flown in level flight. Sharp roll ??? Gonna be interesting to hear the CVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st27 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 And unlike Airbus, the trust levers move with auto throttle engaged....so if idle thrust was commanded on one engine, it would have been more than noticeable to see the thrust levers split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest1 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 Cockpit voice recorders CVRs record 4 audio channels: the pilot microphone, the co-pilot microphone, an extra channel for other crew, and the cockpit area microphone (CAM). The first 3 channels record crew conversations and radio transmissions. The CAM records aural warnings and alerts, as well as the aural environment of the cockpit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 17 hours ago, st27 said: And unlike Airbus, the trust levers move with auto throttle engaged....so if idle thrust was commanded on one engine, it would have been more than noticeable to see the thrust levers split. Human factors associated with situational awareness and how that is continuously facilitated by cockpit control & indicator design, training & experience is a very large topic in which there has always been considerable differences of thought. Yaw & resulting roll under full asymmetric thrust (sudden or gradual engine failure) is manually-controllable but not on auto-pilot for the B737 type. On auto-pilot, visual cues of assymetric thrust would include control-wheel position as well as throttle-position. If I recall correctly, for the Airbus, A320 & subsequent, assymetric thrust is controllable by the autopilot - autothrust system. What happened is, I believe, understood. The CVR will possibly assist in understanding why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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