Industry campaigns for the easing of Canadian travel restrictions


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, conehead said:

For what purpose?

My bet would be a push for implementation of Covid rapid testing of travelers from 'safe' countries to replace 14 day quarantine. If so, it's awkward timing to argue for loosening of travel restrictions when many regions in the country are reimposing lockdown measures.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 99
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

The airline industry (and the thousands of jobs dependant) is like a bad relative...the libs don’t want to acknowledge it because it doesn’t benefit the green narrative they are getting ready to impos

My bet would be a push for implementation of Covid rapid testing of travelers from 'safe' countries to replace 14 day quarantine. If so, it's awkward timing to argue for loosening of travel restrictio

But their constituents will and opposition parties might start drawing attention to the fact.

Posted Images

I do not understand the fervent support for excluding US non-Canadian citizens from Canada. Impose and enforce a quarantine period; require a negative Covid test result; enforce mask mandates. The list is endless. There are reasonable alternatives to impenetrable  "border walls".

Putting it in perspective, many of "us" have been in the US since March. The only requirement upon returning to Canada was to quarantine. There is no evidence that we are "typhoid Mary's".

Like many other snowbirds, I'm headed south in a few weeks. I will NOT be required to quarantine in the US but unfortunately, because of our closure of border crossings, I will have to fly instead of drive. Upon my regular sojourns home, I will quarantine....the price one pays.

Bottom line...in my opinion, one should pursue a reason-based protocol to protect both residents...and travellers.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:

The world would not come to an end if all modes of international and domestic travel was shackled for a few months. I can understand the Unions wanting to get back in the air but their reasons are all leaning to their own cause.......salaries for work.

Personally I would like to see the US border closed to at least the end of the summer in 2021 with strictly ENFORCED regulations. Buddy of mine saw three cars in the WG area with California licence plates. (Don't know if they were reported and checked or not).

Until we, as Canadians, see almost ZERO cases reported up here, we should bite the bullet and do what is required to keep us all safe and get back to normal faster that any other country.

The average age of Canadians is about 38-40 so a loss of the ability to fly anywhere for a couple of years should not be stressful  whereas all retirees may have been saving to "see the world" and may have to forgo that dream and may NEVER go due to deteriorating health  as time moves on.

Also think about this.......42,000 Canadians gave their lives in WW2............. then for those of us that have been enjoying life here in the Great White North  should not feel that reducing our activities due to low levels of $$$ should not  consider this phase of our lives  as an extreme hardship.

PS...I wonder how AC is doing by adding  $350.00 to ones ticket if you want a completely sanitized seat.?

 

.

 

Kip, it is easy for you and me, with our almost quaranteed pensions to take the high road but, what about others who have not yet gained a pension( or in some cases multiple pensions). ???????

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Marshall said:

Kip, it is easy for you and me, with our almost quaranteed pensions to take the high road but, what about others who have not yet gained a pension( or in some cases multiple pensions). ???????  They have much more to loose than we do...

Maybe you didn't go though the many up and downs in our industry that I did but I can well understand the turmoil others are encountering now. As a non union member at CP from the 70s on, there were may ups and downs that we had not control over but could only keep our fingers crossed. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Marshall said:

Kip, it is easy for you and me, with our almost quaranteed pensions to take the high road but, what about others who have not yet gained a pension( or in some cases multiple pensions). ???????

No high road here Malcolm.....and I pretty well knew someone would get to "those that have pension are bullet proof" but that is really not the truth. "Bullet proof" means nothing if one is restricted to watching the light at the end of the tunnel get brighter with each passing day and one's dreams of finally enjoying what you have worked for, (retirement) , becomes  personal restriction to ones movements, failed  fulfillment of dreams etc......thus the reference to average age of Canadians.No matter what happens they do have time to reboot.

My offset is the fact that what all of us are enduring is nothing compared to what those before us went through, Spanish Flu, WW2 , Depressions etc.

Ups and Downs ??? WD was sold to CP would I have a job???, CP looked like it was going over the cliff, where would I go?? CP  merged with AC....would I be hit hard on the seniority issue??? None of it was pleasant and at times I was wondering if I made the correct decision to leave the CF.... Finally retirement...ooops colin cancer........then damn, my wife needed open heart surgery and the world really went black when she  succumbed to ALS long before her time. Not looking for sympathy but in my world, reality is a cold hard fact that I have to live with and I see all of this mess from a different perspective, as I head for the exit,...... than most individuals who are much younger than me...and have more time to recover......so if individuals are bitching about the problems the world has now, I feel  it is best to get over it, do what is necessary to get back on your bike  and be grateful for what you have now.......and understand that you probably have a LONG future ahead of you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:

so if individuals are bitching about the problems the world has now, I feel  it is best to get over it, do what is necessary to get back on your bike

Over one million dead of Covid 19 so far.  "Get over it".  Ok then.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, FA@AC said:

Over one million dead of Covid 19 so far.  "Get over it".  Ok then.

Not sure, but I think you are being sarcastic so for you and Malcolm, .....do you have a better solution / idea ?????..... because you can't change history.

Please bear in mind that, although I never stated it, I do feel badly for the survivors of those who lost loved ones and like anyone who has lost a loved one, they will grieve for an unspecified time, and will, hopefully, never forget their loss ...but...there comes a time when they too will have to move on/get over it  or possibly spiral into the dark pit of unrelenting despair and that is a mental condition no one should have to endure..

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:

Not sure, but I think you are being sarcastic so for you and Malcolm, .....do you have a better solution / idea ?????..... 

I'm sure that there are many better solutions for dealing with the human and economic fallout of the current situation than to suggest that people whose livelihoods are at stake or already up the spout or who aren't able to visit loved ones should just get over it.  Such a comment from someone who is now collecting a pension (or two pensions) might grate with people who have been thrown out of work due to this pandemic and who don't know if their career will ever be salvaged or whether any other opportunities will exist over the medium term.  I don't equate such concerns with "bitching about the problems the world has now" as you put it.  And to compare the hardship that this pandemic has caused to your "misfortune" or whatever you'd call it when AC bought CAIL and saved your job because you didn't like the way your seniority was dealt with.  Really?   

In the travel industry one of the ideas being advanced are to explore whether relaxing quarantine rules in some circumstances or replacing them with testing would be a safe way to stimulate business and is the subject of this thread.

Edited by FA@AC
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, FA@AC said:

Over one million dead of Covid 19 so far.  "Get over it".  Ok then.

Alberta. 267 dead of C19.  Average age: 83. Average comorbidities: 3.

Life has a price tag.  We don't like to talk about it.  That price tag is a fraction of what we are currently paying. Our children's children's children will be paying for this.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ILB said:

Alberta. 267 dead of C19.  Average age: 83. Average comorbidities: 3.

Life has a price tag.  We don't like to talk about it.  That price tag is a fraction of what we are currently paying. Our children's children's children will be paying for this.  

If we handle it properly your children's children's children will have a place available to them in the ICU if they're unfortunate enough to need one.  If the pandemic gets out of control we have Wuhan, or Milan, or NYC, or Israel.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, FA@AC said:

And to compare the hardship that this pandemic has caused to your "misfortune" or whatever you'd call it when AC bought CAIL and saved your job because you didn't like the way your seniority was dealt with.  Really?   

Not comparing.....that was in context as a reply to Malcolm and his comments concerning "ups and downs."...We all have them and I was merely stating that I too had worries during my time in the industry... 

Anyhow. to each his own and hopefully, with the passage of time, there are brighter days ahead for all.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

 

PS...I wonder how AC is doing by adding  $350.00 to ones ticket if you want a completely sanitized seat.?

 

.

 

Kip, that has never happened.  A guy put that on his parody website and a lot of people picked it up as a fact.  Seems as though you did too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, j.k. said:

... dead with Covid 19 so far.

 

And as bad as that number is.  It is not the number to be watching for.  That number will increase in perpetuity.  It is a rear view mirror number.  The evolution of the Spanish flu still circulates to this day.  If we applied the same methodology to it, it has killed over a billion.

For various reasons, some known and unknown to our medical professionals, pandemics/epidemics tend to become less lethal as time goes by.  They usually mutate for one, becoming more contagious but less virulent.  Immunity slowly rises making it harder for the virus to spread.  I will stop there because I’m not a professional in the medical field. But historically this is the path they take.  SARS, H1N1, MERS, Swine.  They all still circulate.  They all still kill people every year.  It’s just that the numbers of deaths associated has shrunk.  The medical community hopes Covid will follow the normal path.  The problem is they don’t know it will.  And if it does? When.
 

The point being, if you want to see in front of you, the windshield is the direction to look.  As we move into the second wave look for dropping ICU/death numbers and increasing Covid cases. This is an indication that the virus is progressing as expected. A good thing in an awful situation.
 

Here is a simple google search.  Drop in any country you want.  Take a look at some of the countries hardest hit last spring.  Look what is happening to their cases vs death.  They almost all have cases vs death now starting to move in the opposite direction of each other.  Cases up, but deaths flattening.

Since this pandemic will flow at different rates throughout the planet.  You will also probably be able to find countries that had almost no outbreak last spring.  Some of them will have cases and death rates rapidly increasing, as this fall is really their first exposure to Covid.

 

Covid death versus cases.
 



 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Realistically, our borders ought to remain closed to non-essential travel for a while longer, but we are inching closer to the point where a series of rapid tests - prior to departure from an overseas point, and continuing with an arrival test and a final test at the potential end of a shortened quarantine - say 4-5 days proves one is still negative. I haven't figured out how that last test ought to work, whether you need to rely on the honour system, or change someone a fee for the public health authority to come around and administer a rapid test where you are living/staying.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't yet heard much from governments about where they intend to deploy the rapid testing, but approval/purchase of the kits is a welcome development.  Between that and it appearing likely that we'll have the ability to vaccinate at least some of the most vulnerable members of the population within a few months there's reason for optimism despite the outlook for the very near term being a bit grim. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, ILB said:

Alberta. 267 dead of C19.  Average age: 83. Average comorbidities: 3.

Life has a price tag.  We don't like to talk about it.  That price tag is a fraction of what we are currently paying. Our children's children's children will be paying for this.  

only 0.36% of population infected

and only 1.56% of those infected have died

only 0.01%of population has died

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Fido said:

only 0.36% of population infected

and only 1.56% of those infected have died

only 0.01%of population has died

The case fatality rate of the virus is very low in most places.

The statistics above, if they're accurate, help to keep things in perspective but it isn't helpful to use them to argue that we should just open everything right back up again.  I'm not accusing you of doing that, btw.

The reason that only a tiny part of our population was infected was that lockdown measures and other precautions were effective.  By using the statistics posted here one could run the math how many deaths of Covid we'd have had if we hadn't enacted precautions and the number would be enormous.  Aside from that there are many people with cases of cancer and other illnesses that advanced when treatments were postponed or cancelled to due the strain the the healthcare system was under during the first wave of Covid.  It boggles my mind that some people look at Brazil or other places where body bags keep piling up as an example of how to handle a pandemic.

Edited by FA@AC
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FA@AC said:

The case fatality rate of the virus is very low in most places.

The statistics above, if they're accurate, help to keep things in perspective but it isn't helpful to use them to argue that we should just open everything right back up again.  

I don't think things should be wide open either but if there is a proven, valid test that can be done before boarding, then why not return some normalcy to at least domestic airtravel ? International travel would not likely open up unless all countries do the before departure test at origin and transfer points. Then comes the question re what if the status of a connecting passenger changes to positive, there would have to be procedures in place to deny onward travel and provide isolation / care for that passenger.

Quote

 

Hospitalizations, intensive care unit (ICU) and deaths

Detailed case report data were provided on 155,970 cases; hospitalization status information was available for 94,822 (60.8%) of these cases:

 

  •  
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

I don't think things should be wide open either but if there is a proven, valid test that can be done before boarding, then why not return some normalcy 

Agreed.  I think everybody in the industry supports the idea of testing before travel and/or at borders to lessen current restrictions.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

The question was rhetorically expressed above about why cases of infection increase while deaths decrease.

I will suggest that this virus like all others has a will to survive. It mutates to ensure replication. The death of the host serves no purpose and so it modifies itself to become less lethal and more easily transmitted. It LEARNS!

To me....that is a VERY scary notion and yet I believe it to be widely accepted by epidemiologists.

I live in a community of around 100,000 people. We have 2 active cases. Within this community, apart from the masks ( not universal), you would not know that a pandemic existed...apart from news reports. I am involved in a building project. There is no distancing or masks on site and virtually no chance of exposure....because no one is infected. The "risk" of course is posed by outsiders importing the virus. And we are collectively wary of strangers.

I understand Kip's comment. There are many i know who maintain that we must be like the virus itself....learn to cohabit. Neither of us is going away....and our lives must be lived albeit with loss.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.