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The initial actions for a power loss/engine failure in the Tutor is "Zoom, idle, air start". We were always taught that if this happened on take off and if the engine did not stabilize/re-light before

I'm so glad that this probably means that there isn't a mechanic wondering if he/she missed something.

This image was posted on twitter... Nice gesture by the Thunderbirds:

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https://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/news/snowbird-jet-crashes-into-house-in-kamloops-1.24136709

 

Snowbird jet crashes into house in Kamloops

There is smoke rising from the crash site as emergency vehicles descend on the area. There are reports the plane hit a house and that the pilot managed to eject before the jet crashed

A Canadian Forces Snowbird jet has crashed in Kamloops.

 

Two jets took off from Kamloops Airport at about 11:30 a.m., bound for Comox, when one rose, then circled and crashed in an area near Glenview Avenue. There are reports the plane hit a house on that street and that the pilot managed to eject before the jet crashed.

There is smoke rising from the crash site as emergency vehicles descend on the area. The house is on fire. 

 

The pilot landed on the roof of a house on nearby Schreiner Street.

 

Gurjit Sidhu witnessed the crash and told KTW a pilot was seen on the roof of a house, reportedly with back and/or neck injuries.

“I just saw, in the sky, something falling. I saw a pilot ejected, then I heard a big noise, like a bomb,” Sidhu said.

Another witness, a Kamloops man who did not wish to have his name published, said he was at the airport for an hour before the crash to watch the Snowbirds squadron take off as they were to continue their cross-Canada tour by heading to Vancouver lsland.

He said two jets took off together and all looked normal as they rose above the airport.

“All of a sudden, one of the planes suddenly went up, straight up, quite high, then it started dropping and doing a barrel roll,” he said. “It did a few spirals and I saw the ejector seat pop out. Then I saw a big fireball, an explosion.”

He said those watching the planes take off initially did not realize anything was wrong as the one Snowbird began climbing vertically, then descended with barrel rolls.

“We thought it was going to do some kind of cool trick,” he said. “It was incredible. I can’t believe I saw it.

Kamloops resident Rob McCaskill was at the Brock Shopping Centre when he spotted two of the jets taking off from the Kamloops Airport. He said he saw the two jets part in different directions not long after leaving the ground. He looked  away and then shortly afterwards, heard a 'pop' sound.

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I couldn't get the facebook link so here is a link to Global where there is a video of the crash. They looked pretty low by the time they punched out. It sounds like one is injured and one didn't make it.

https://globalnews.ca/

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Armchair QB........Looks like a control problem....Pitch-up, followed by a stall and no room to recover, ejection....

I was part of an investigation team in Moose Jaw of a similar incident with a T-33. Pilot's knee-board fell and jammed the control column.

Could be something loose in the other seat if that seat was not occupied, and was not secured.

Most of the time the planes are flown  solo except when they may carry a  Military maintenance, or PR  member with them.

Hopefully just one occupant in this case.

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13 minutes ago, vanishing point said:

Two ejector seat smoke trails are visible in a couple of different videos taken by witnesses.

I am not sure of the sequence in the Tutor  but the T-33 eventually went to  sequential ejection seats. If the backseat pilot  guy pulled the handles, he was gone and the front seat  guy was automatically ejected shortly there after. It was a requirement because the seats were changed to ROKAT seats, (lower ejection limits), and if the guy upfront went first he would BBQ the back seat guy.

Not sure how the Tutor works but if there was  2 smoke trails , perhaps they have sequential ejection as well, or seeing it is a trainer perhaps any seat could trigger both seats During dual training , normally the IP would initiate ejection.

I told my students I would say "EJECT" three times, the first time would be me and the next two would be echoes....

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To me, the flight trajectory looks like a zoom climb maneuver, used to gain altitude for ejection in the event of an emergency after takeoff.

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3 minutes ago, J.O. said:

To me, the flight trajectory looks like a zoom climb maneuver, used to gain altitude for ejection in the event of an emergency after takeoff.

Yes, that is a very good possibility and I don't imagine there was any good looking terra firma to dead stick the aircraft onto. If you trained at MJ there was always acres and acres of flat land to dead stick onto  but in Beautiful BC....not so much in the valleys..😂..

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I'm not sure, because if that was the case I think that they would have punched out sooner than they did. I hope that report that I heard that a female pilot didn't make it. Of course they wouldn't know whether she was a pilot or not. This is all so sad.

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Sounds like the deceased is the teams PR person.  Sad day.  It’s too bad they couldn’t have ejected before the spin began, a little more altitude may have made a big difference by the looks of the video.   Maybe a flameout/bird at takeoff.  Horrible place to be, out of power, airspeed, altitude, and ideas, all at the same time. RIP.

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54 minutes ago, GDR said:

I'm not sure, because if that was the case I think that they would have punched out sooner than they did. I hope that report that I heard that a female pilot didn't make it. Of course they wouldn't know whether she was a pilot or not. This is all so sad.

I think an engine failure is a good possibility.....When an engine failure occurs in a SE jet the normal reaction is to "pull-up" and convert airspeed to altitude and  attain the required glide speed. Lets assume that is what the pilot did and then the left turn would be an attempt to see if he could get back to the airport. Unfortunately he was in the process of accelerating to normal climb airspeed so he wouldn't have gained much altitude and that coupled with a turn didn't enhance his airspeed or altitude, Recognizing that...........he would never make the airport, he was over a populated area, which  was not of his making, and with no dead stick options, and everything running toward "zero"  he knew that there was only one way out...pull the handles.....as I taught my students......".they can replace the aircraft but they can;t replace you"

If it is confirmed that there was actually another person on board, and they never made it, that is truly unfortunate and very sad. 

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1 hour ago, Kip Powick said:

I think an engine failure is a good possibility.....When an engine failure occurs in a SE jet the normal reaction is to "pull-up" and convert airspeed to altitude and  attain the required glide speed. Lets assume that is what the pilot did and then the left turn would be an attempt to see if he could get back to the airport. Unfortunately he was in the process of accelerating to normal climb airspeed so he wouldn't have gained much altitude and that coupled with a turn didn't enhance his airspeed or altitude, Recognizing that...........he would never make the airport, he was over a populated area, which  was not of his making, and with no dead stick options, and everything running toward "zero"  he knew that there was only one way out...pull the handles.....as I taught my students......".they can replace the aircraft but they can;t replace you"

If it is confirmed that there was actually another person on board, and they never made it, that is truly unfortunate and very sad. 

There was one more. Capt Jennifer Casey. She was PR for the SB's.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6954775/cf-snowbird-crashes-near-kamloops-during-b-c-stop-of-cross-canada-tour/

I understand and you are probably correct. It just seemed strange that they ejected quite a bit below their peak altitude. I wonder if it is because Capt. Casey being PR needed some direction before pulling the handles.

Man this is sad.

 

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Watch the video from Global news at the end of the article.  When the jets pass over head you can hear a distinct POOF just before he initiates the rapid ascent.  That poof sounded like a compressor stall or flameout.

As was mentioned before Trade what you have for what you need and get out of dodge.

Very sad day for the Snowbird Team and Canada.

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It has been reported that she did not even get out of the aircraft....... wonder why there " appeared"  to be two ejections..

 

“I’m a retired nurse, so of course I went into the backyard and there was a woman, she was in the plane and she was deceased.

“We worked on her for quite a while, but… just she had catastrophic injuries.”

 

Not a good few weeks for our female members of the Forces....😰

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My wife made a comment about that as well from a news report.  Could the first have been the canopy?  I watched the video again in post #2 and at about the :50 mark, the ejections happen.  milli-seconds later there’s 3 distinct objects falling but no chutes visible (not to say there aren’t any just not clear in the video).
 

Prior to the :50 mark, the aircraft wasn’t really in an attitude that would have offered a suitable direction for an ejection.  I’ve never flown an aircraft that has ejection seats but my thinking is any pilot would stay with the aircraft as long as safely possible and hopefully point it away from civilians.  Sometimes that opportunity just isn’t there...

Condolences to the friends and family of Captain Jennifer Casey.  I wish the pilot a speedy recover.  I can’t imagine what he’s going through right now.

Edited by vanishing point
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9 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

she was in the plane and she was deceased.

 

I saw the video but haven't read much about it. It's possible what she meant by the quote above was "she was still in the seat."

If memory serves, it's a 0/60 seat and unless there have been mods, there is no sequential ejection.  That was a steep descent at low altitude and it's possible that seat/man separation didn't have time to initiate prior to impact.  In other words, the combination of altitude and rate of decent at initiation conspired to place them both perilously close to seat limitations. A huge loss and sad day for the team regardless.

Edited by Wolfhunter
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One thing about the possible cause. The team has been performing all across Canada for the past 2 weeks, with I guess maintenance being done at every stop. Lots of flying hours. Would the number of hours flown during these missions perhaps be in excess of normal and thus may have led to a mechanical failure? 

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I believe the Tutor had a 0/90kt seat, ( I only flew in it for about 8 hours), and the most difficult part for me was looping aerobatics.Sitting side by side threw my perception off when coming over the top of a loop and it took  a few loops to figure out what one should see when upside down versus tandem seating in most all other jets. (The American T37 trainer was also tandem and looked like a Tudor except it had a normal "t" tail, had two engines and  looked as if someone had stepped on top of the middle of the fuselage 😄. It was not that much fun to fly.

Trivia.....there was problems with the hardness of the Tutor windscreen, or so the technicians doing the bird strike tests thought. They called the "Brass Hats" and told them that every dead chicken they shot out of the cannon broke the windscreen. The problem was rectified when the "Brass Hats" advised the technicians they were to thaw the chickens out prior to firing them at the windscreen.🤣

A contributing factor with  the Tutor at Kamloops going down so suddenly is that when the canopy is removed, a great deal of lift is lost, not a good thing at  at low airspeed.

 

No idea why the aircraft did a roll during the flight

 

Captain Casey was here in Trenton, I never met her but I did see her at a large function on the air side of the base. 

The loss of a fine young lady........I can only assume she changed branches in the Forces, (Army to Air Force), during her tenure as a PR Officer. The Forces went back to almost original rank insignia in about  2014 and according to Press releases Ms Casey joined the Snowbirds in 2018. The TRIBUTE PHOTO of her standing, arms folded, in front of a Snowbird aircraft, has her shoulder epaulets as an Army Captain, yet there are later photos with her wearing Air Force epaulets. The change of Branches must have taken time and ....... I guess she finally realized that if God wanted the ARMY to fly he would have painted the sky brown. 

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When an engine failure occurs in a SE jet the normal reaction is to "pull-up" and convert airspeed to altitude and  attain the required glide speed. 

Gee Kip....it’s happening again.....just saw an “expert” interview  on CTV who said he didn’t understand why you would pull the nose up in a s/e ac that has had an engine failure. 😳

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Jenn Casey has been with the team for over a year and has travelled with them extensively, so I doubt familiarity with the aircraft was an issue. Both crew members were found at the same home, one on the roof, the other in the back yard. They both ejected but her chute didn’t open due to the low height. Tragic.

Edited by J.O.
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7 minutes ago, J.O. said:

Both crew members were found at the same home, one on the roof, the other in the back yard. They both ejected but Captain Casey’s chute didn’t open due to the low height. Tragic.

That disputes the Nurse's comments above and doesn't say much for a "0 altitude/90 kts" speed ejection seat.I know know there is a downward trajectory factor when the aircraft is descending but..........

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