Current Airline Capacity Cuts COVID19

[boestar]

I see they have dropped direct flights from YOW to YYC and YVR.  That has a direct impact on MPS travelling from the west.

[rudder]

2 hours ago, boestar said:

I see they have dropped direct flights from YOW to YYC and YVR.  That has a direct impact on MPS travelling from the west.

AC should have dropped every direct flight to YOW in the first wave of capacity reductions. Connections over YYZ and YUL only.

[FA@AC]

Quite the stalemate.  The government insists on customers being given refunds for cancelled flights before government support will be offered.  Airlines (AC anyway) say that they cannot provide refunds without government support.  Government insists that airlines guarantee service to certain cities.  Airlines cannot service certain cities because government travel restrictions make serving them unviable.

I wonder if the new Transport Minister has the mandate the alter the government's position in order to move things along......or if Michel when he takes over will adopt a position any different from Calin's.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, FA@AC said:

Quite the stalemate.  The government insists on customers being given refunds for cancelled flights before government support will be offered.  Airlines (AC anyway) say that they cannot provide refunds without government support.  Government insists that airlines guarantee service to certain cities.  Airlines cannot service certain cities because government travel restrictions make serving them unviable.

I wonder if the new Transport Minister has the mandate the alter the government's position in order to move things along......or if Michel when he takes over will adopt a position any different from Calin's.

One solution is to adopt the US procedure of having airlines bid on operating certain routes with the winner receiving the rights along with a breakeven (or better) guarantee.  Essential Air Service | US Department of Transportation

 

[Guest]

omnibus update from Canadian Aviation News.  

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress.com/2021/01/14/air-canada-westjet-transat-sunwing-and-more-the-latest-updates-amid-the-coronavirus-pandemic-2/

[Fido]

9 hours ago, boestar said:

I see they have dropped direct flights from YOW to YYC and YVR.  That has a direct impact on MPS travelling from the west.

YEG -YOW has been gone for nearly a year

[UpperDeck]

9 hours ago, FA@AC said:

Quite the stalemate.  The government insists on customers being given refunds for cancelled flights before government support will be offered.  Airlines (AC anyway) say that they cannot provide refunds without government support.  Government insists that airlines guarantee service to certain cities.  Airlines cannot service certain cities because government travel restrictions make serving them unviable.

I wonder if the new Transport Minister has the mandate the alter the government's position in order to move things along......or if Michel when he takes over will adopt a position any different from Calin's.

I cannot understand how anyone can even attempt to justify a refusal to refund monies paid when the service provider fails to provide the service. Pay for a garage door...in advance...and the supplier says; " Sorry. No doors". And then says; "I'll give you a credit for the same door which will be available next month but it may cost more." To suggest that the taxpayer should refund the money is ludicrous.

Sorry.....I bail out and I understand you keeping my money if the flight operates. You allow me to change flight dates and waive change fees? Thank you....good marketing. Failure to refund when the airline cancels the flight? Shame!

[FA@AC]

34 minutes ago, UpperDeck said:

Failure to refund when the airline cancels the flight? Shame!

I can certainly understand why people are angry about it, but I'm not sure of AC's current cash position or what it would owe in refunds if it made them.

As for taxpayer money, it's likely to go to some airlines in some form before this is over unless there's a fast recovery or unless taxpayers are prepared to leave significantly sized cities without airline service.

[Guest]

UpperDeck: on the personal side, I imagine the new 72 hour Rule etc in the US is somewhat screwing up your cross border tips   or have you got it aced?

[boestar]

10 hours ago, UpperDeck said:

I cannot understand how anyone can even attempt to justify a refusal to refund monies paid when the service provider fails to provide the service. Pay for a garage door...in advance...and the supplier says; " Sorry. No doors". And then says; "I'll give you a credit for the same door which will be available next month but it may cost more." To suggest that the taxpayer should refund the money is ludicrous.

Sorry.....I bail out and I understand you keeping my money if the flight operates. You allow me to change flight dates and waive change fees? Thank you....good marketing. Failure to refund when the airline cancels the flight? Shame!

No one "Failed" to provide a service.  The government placed a restriction on Travel which caused the airlines to cancel the flights.  To an airline that is an UNCONTROLABLE cancellation caused by the government.  The ultimate responsibility lies with the government NOT the airline.

The policies are spelled out in the Tariffs as to the differences in types of cancellations and the responsibility of both parties.

The government Paid thousands of people CERB payments that they were not entitled to why not reimburse travellers or provide the support necessary to enable refunds.

 

[Airband]

28 minutes ago, boestar said:

The ultimate responsibility lies with the government NOT the airline.

How's that line of reasoning working out so far?

[UpperDeck]

12 hours ago, Malcolm said:

UpperDeck: on the personal side, I imagine the new 72 hour Rule etc in the US is somewhat screwing up your cross border tips   or have you got it aced?

Aced? Lol 

We just came north a few days ago though I wish it hadn't been necessary. We learned of the CDC Order the night before departure. I got the PCR...$199. ...in 24 hours and had to explain to the gate agent where the type of test taken was indicated and the result. On arrival, perusal by the CBSA can best be described as perfunctory...and brief!

I would never do it but it would be a simple task to change the date on the test result and no one would be the wiser.

After clearing into Canada, there was a lady there offering free tests to arriving pax. I was compelled to ask whether departing pax could also be tested free. You know the answer.

 

And now I'm in quarantine BUT....we hope to return to the US on the 24th before the new US rules kick in.

My quarantine ends when I leave.

Employees in YYZ can get a free PCR test but unfortunately, that only benefits people who live there since you'd need to get it done two days before sched departure.

As an aside...the CDC Order exempts airline crew. I wrote to ask whether that was limited to operating crew or included commuters. No response so called number provided. No connection (error). I'm hoping that the exemption will be similar to Canada.

 

 

[J.O.]

48 minutes ago, UpperDeck said:

I wrote to ask whether that was limited to operating crew or included commuters. No response so called number provided. No connection (error). I'm hoping that the exemption will be similar to Canada.

My company enquired into this. The USA's PCR test exemption will only be applicable to operating crew.

Edited January 15, 2021 by J.O.

[UpperDeck]

52 minutes ago, J.O. said:

My company enquired into this. The USA's PCR test exemption will only be applicable to operating crew.

Thank you, J.O. 

When I contacted Public Health about abbreviating the quarantine period by leaving Canada, it was suggested I report my intent to CBSA upon arrival. I did so and was told; " Tell Public Health".

No one said it would be easy!!

[Guest]

Air Canada Outlines Route Cuts: Many Caribbean, Hawaii and Europe Flights Suspended

15 January 2021Canadian Aviation News

From TravelPulse Canada – link to source story

JIM BYERS  JANUARY 14, 2021

Paris

The pandemic and ongoing travel restrictions are forcing Air Canada to suspend some of their most popular flights, at least temporarily.

In a memo sent to TravelPulse Canada, Canada’s largest airline outlined the details of the 25% capacity reduction they mentioned in a Wednesday statement. The list contains 44 temporarily suspended flights, including 12 domestic, 10 trans-border (USA) and a full 22 international routes.

Popular flights that are being temporarily discontinued include Toronto-Quebec City, Montreal-Orlando, Toronto-Tampa, Vancouver-Puerto Vallarta, Montreal-Barbados, Calgary-Maui, Toronto-Paris and Toronto-Saint Lucia.

It’s a blow to Air Canada workers and to Canadians, as well as tourism workers in the Caribbean and around the world. It’s also a difficult pill to swallow for beleaguered travel agents, who now have a lot fewer destinations they can sell. But airline officials say they’ve been left with no choice.

Effective Jan 23, this is a list of the stations closed and routes suspended until further notice:

Additional airport stations closed in Canada:

• Fredericton NB
• Gander NL
• Goose Bay NL
• Yellowknife NWT
• Kamloops BC
• Prince Rupert BC

Additional domestic routes suspended

• Fredericton–Montreal
• Gander–Halifax
• Goose Bay–Halifax
• Kamloops-Vancouver
• Ottawa-Calgary
• Ottawa-Vancouver
• Prince Rupert-Vancouver
• Quebec City-Toronto
• St. John’s-Toronto
• Victoria-Calgary
• Winnipeg-Calgary
• Yellowknife-Edmonton

Transborder routes suspended

• Calgary to: Maui
• Montreal to: Denver, Houston, Orlando
• Toronto to: Houston, Orlando, Tampa, Washington (Dulles)
• Vancouver to: Honolulu (until April), Maui (until mid-February)

International flights suspended

• Montreal to: Barbados, Casablanca, Cozumel, Samana, San Jose (Costa Rica), Santa Clara, Turks & Caicos, Nassau, Sao Paulo, Puerto Vallarta
• Toronto to: Cozumel, Curacao, Ixtapa, Los Cabos, Paris, Saint Lucia, Santa Clara, St. Vincent, Zurich
• Vancouver to: Los Cabos, Mexico City, Puerto Vallarta

Air Canada on Wednesday said it will have to reduce capacity by 25% and lay off 1,700 workers due to a lack of demand.

Since the implementation by the Federal and Provincial Governments of these increased travel restrictions and other measures, in addition to the existing quarantine requirements, we have seen an immediate impact to our close-in bookings and have made the difficult but necessary decision to further adjust our schedule and rationalize our transborder, Caribbean and domestic routes to better reflect expected demand and to reduce cash burn. We regret the impact these difficult decisions will have on our employees who have worked very hard during the pandemic looking after our customers, as well as on the affected communities,” said Lucie Guillemette, Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer at Air Canada.

WestJet last week reduced capacity by 30% per cent and announced layoffs and furloughs for 1,000 workers.

 

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[UpperDeck]

13 hours ago, boestar said:

No one "Failed" to provide a service.  The government placed a restriction on Travel which caused the airlines to cancel the flights.  To an airline that is an UNCONTROLABLE cancellation caused by the government.  The ultimate responsibility lies with the government NOT the airline.

The policies are spelled out in the Tariffs as to the differences in types of cancellations and the responsibility of both parties.

The government Paid thousands of people CERB payments that they were not entitled to why not reimburse travellers or provide the support necessary to enable refunds.

 

Boestar....

Your position is that flights are cancelled not as a business decision per se but rather by reason of restrictions imposed by the government and for that reason, the airline that didn't operate a flight should be able to offer a credit rather than cash refund. Have I correctly summarized your position?

I suggest that the restrictions imposed by Canada are not unduly onerous; quarantine of arriving pax and, recently, negative Covid tests.

These restrictions are imposed upon the pax and not the airline. I suggested that if it is the pax that cancels...because they don't want to quarantine or pay for a test.....they bear the consequence.

The reluctance of pax to actually book a flight is an entirely different issue. The airlines are responsible for flight management and decisions on when and where to offer flights. Once they make a decision to fly from x to b on a particular date and offer seats for sale, they are obliged to operate. If they choose not to operate because not enough seats were sold, the absolute LEAST they can do is refund the money.

To say that the money has already been spent and isn't available for refund is to support the argument that airline operations are an elaborate Ponzi scheme.

I note that in assessing whether to "plan" our travel now, we look first at loads generally and if light one way but good the other, we assume the flight will operate. If both legs are empty....we look for an alternative assuming that flight will be cancelled.

I suggest again that the decision to cancel is a business decision and one of the relevant factors should be the loss of booked revenue.....the refund of fares paid.

Compare airline operations with restaurants. The immediate impact of government restrictions on restaurants is indisputable....and yet, no offer of assistance is forthcoming notwithstanding the absence of any evidence of correlation between the restrictions imposed and the reduction in virus transmission. If Canada was to mandate " no fly"....THEN the airlines would have a stronger argument for financial relief.....notwithstanding the denial of same to restaurants.

[Turbofan]

I think this about to get much worse, before it gets better.  

B.C. premier seeking legal advice on feasibility of inter-provincial travel ban

 

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiUGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNiYy5jYS9uZXdzL2NhbmFkYS9icml0aXNoLWNvbHVtYmlhL2JjLXByZW1pZXItam9obi1ob3JnYW4tMS41ODcyOTcw0gEgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY2JjLmNhL2FtcC8xLjU4NzI5NzA?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

[Turbofan]

Just looked at the amount of flying my fleet type is doing in February (domestic).  Drastic reduction.

[Guest1]

Emirates Slashes Services To Australia

[boestar]

On 1/15/2021 at 9:13 PM, UpperDeck said:

Boestar....

Your position is that flights are cancelled not as a business decision per se but rather by reason of restrictions imposed by the government and for that reason, the airline that didn't operate a flight should be able to offer a credit rather than cash refund. Have I correctly summarized your position?

I suggest that the restrictions imposed by Canada are not unduly onerous; quarantine of arriving pax and, recently, negative Covid tests.

These restrictions are imposed upon the pax and not the airline. I suggested that if it is the pax that cancels...because they don't want to quarantine or pay for a test.....they bear the consequence.

The reluctance of pax to actually book a flight is an entirely different issue. The airlines are responsible for flight management and decisions on when and where to offer flights. Once they make a decision to fly from x to b on a particular date and offer seats for sale, they are obliged to operate. If they choose not to operate because not enough seats were sold, the absolute LEAST they can do is refund the money.

To say that the money has already been spent and isn't available for refund is to support the argument that airline operations are an elaborate Ponzi scheme.

I note that in assessing whether to "plan" our travel now, we look first at loads generally and if light one way but good the other, we assume the flight will operate. If both legs are empty....we look for an alternative assuming that flight will be cancelled.

I suggest again that the decision to cancel is a business decision and one of the relevant factors should be the loss of booked revenue.....the refund of fares paid.

Compare airline operations with restaurants. The immediate impact of government restrictions on restaurants is indisputable....and yet, no offer of assistance is forthcoming notwithstanding the absence of any evidence of correlation between the restrictions imposed and the reduction in virus transmission. If Canada was to mandate " no fly"....THEN the airlines would have a stronger argument for financial relief.....notwithstanding the denial of same to restaurants.

Back when this all started in March 2020. The government imposed restrictions on travel interprovincially as well as internationally.  That limited AC to 7 international destinations and 5 domestic destinations for ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY.  Those restrictions are what caused the cancellations and the issues with vouches vs refunds.  Those restrictions were, relatively, short lived and replaced with the 14 day quarantine requirements which stifled a rebound in travel and still does to this day. 

THAT is where I have the issue, the initial cancellations.  that is an UNCONTROLLABLE flight cancellation just like the weather.

[FA@AC]

KLM suspends its intercontinental flying

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-netherlands-klm/dutch-klm-halts-long-haul-flights-due-to-new-covid-19-rule-idUSS8N2GP01V

[Guest1]

Air Canada flights suspended to Bermuda until April

20 January 2021Canadian Aviation News

From The Royal Gazette, Bermuda – link to source story

Fiona McWhirter | Jan 20, 2021

[J.O.]

2 hours ago, FA@AC said:

KLM suspends its intercontinental flying

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-netherlands-klm/dutch-klm-halts-long-haul-flights-due-to-new-covid-19-rule-idUSS8N2GP01V

I think the international travel market is going to get tougher before it gets better. Many countries are starting to panic over the virus mutations.

[FA@AC]

5 hours ago, FA@AC said:

KLM suspends its intercontinental flying

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-netherlands-klm/dutch-klm-halts-long-haul-flights-due-to-new-covid-19-rule-idUSS8N2GP01V

Some Dutch media are now reporting that KL is seeking to have its crew exempted from Dutch testing requirements and will not suspend flights if an exemption is given.

[conehead]

Cathay Pacific has sold their 777 fleet...