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Here is some food for thought:

Since the start of 2020, based on official counts, COVID-19 has killed more than 4.5 million people, including more than 630,000 in the United States, 570,000 in Brazil, and 430,000 in India. These tallies may substantially underestimate COVID-19's true death toll. In fact, some estimates suggest the total number of deaths could be more than twice as large as reported globally and up to ten times greater than reported in some countries. The scale of loss is staggering, but the huge numbers are difficult to understand without context. It can be helpful to consider how COVID-19 ranks as a cause of death around the world, and some of the factors driving those trends.

Looking at official statistics alone, COVID-19 was the fourth leading cause of death globally, accounting for just under one in twenty deaths worldwide since the beginning of 2020. After accounting for unreported deaths, the total toll could be as high as the third leading cause of death, responsible for an estimated 10 million deaths, or one out of every ten deaths. About half of people globally live to 70 before they die, so causes of death that tend to kill older adults such as ischemic heart disease and stroke predominate among the most common causes of death. COVID-19 mortality is similar in that it kills very few young children or adolescents but becomes sharply more dangerous with age and disproportionately kills people over 70 years old.  

Top Five Causes of Death Globally


You're viewing total deaths. View reported deaths  instead

Rank Cause Estimated Deaths Since the Start of 2020 Estimated Percent of All Deaths Since the Start of 2020 Estimated Deaths per 100,000
1 Ischemic heart disease 15,220,000 14.8% 196.7
2 Stroke 10,920,000 10.6% 141.1
3 COVID-19 10,000,000 9.6% 129.3
4 Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease 5,465,000 5.2% 70.6
5 Lower respiratory infections 4,150,000 4.0% 53.7
Note: Based on data from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, reported COVID-19 is the fourth leading cause of death globally and total COVID-19 deaths make it the third leading cause of death. Total deaths include excess deaths—the number of deaths estimated as attributed to COVID-19, including unreported deaths—as well as reported deaths. Deaths reflect counts or estimates through August 31, 2021.

According to official statistics, COVID-19 was the leading cause of death in France, Spain, the United Kingdom, and several U.S. states. But after accounting for undercounting of COVID-19 deaths, it was the leading cause of death in the United States, Iran, and Poland (all were second-leading before adjusting to account for total deaths due to COVID-19). COVID-19 was the leading cause of death in the Region of the Americas and the third leading cause of death in the European Region. People over 70, who are at higher risk of COVID-19 mortality, make up a higher share of the population in higher-income countries. Those countries also tend to have a higher prevalence of chronic health conditions that increase with age such as obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and respiratory illness, which likely contributed to higher rates of COVID-19 mortality.

COVID-19 Deaths by WHO Region


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On 10/28/2021 at 5:44 PM, Wolfhunter said:

Has it really come to this? I no longer recognize my own bloody country.

Do you consider the reverse equally reasonable?

Grade 13 biology suggests the jury is still out on long term efficacy and safety. What if lipids penetrate the blood brain barrier and prion diseases spike? What if  certain demographics (pregnant women etc) require unvaccinated blood products,  what if inflammatory diseases (like Lime or even insect venom) prove problematic in terms of autoimmune reactions? Does your definition of reasonableness and compliance still work for them?

I certainly don’t know the answers here… that’s the reason I maintain that caution, humility and a bit of compassion works better than this “screw the defiant” attitude that seems so popular now.

Far to much politically driven “winner take all” here for my liking… I find it unseemly.  Regardless of the eventual outcome though, there are a host of interconnected causal relationships here that remain incognito. Failure to acknowledge their existence means they automatically work against you. I urge caution...

Trust the person seeking wisdom, fear the one who claims to possess it.

My point was the POV of a Conspiracy theory.  It is definitely the more plausible case than killing half the population WITH a vaccine.  No control.  I am not in any way condoning it.


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23 hours ago, GDR said:

So you pick out one county in Arizona. I'm sure that you can pick out many counties out of the hundreds in the US that are doing worse than we are. 


I didn't randomly pick Maricopa county, it's where I normally spend my winters.

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1 hour ago, mo32a said:

I didn't randomly pick Maricopa county, it's where I normally spend my winters.

Fair enough but my point remains the same. Yes, the vaccines help on the short term but ultimately we will have to build up our own natural immunises to gain some sort of control over the virus. In the meantime there are now several reasonably effective antidotes that greatly reduce the effects and the number of deaths. (I wish we would hear more about those but our governments seem wedded to focusing solely on vaccines.)

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Booster Shots Drastically Reduce Delta Variant Hospitalizations And Deaths In Israel

The first large-scale real-world study of the effectiveness of booster shots against COVID-19 has found them to be up to 93 percent protective, even against the Delta variant. There remains considerable debate about both the ethics and wisdom of using scarce vaccination supplies to give people in wealthy countries third doses while billions are unvaccinated elsewhere. Nevertheless, as much as any one study can, the findings put to rest the question of whether Delta can be tamed using existing mRNA vaccines, rather than requiring new versions specifically targeted towards it.

Israel convinced Pfizer to sell it the vaccine doses it needed long before other countries by pointing out its status as a perfect testing ground. This helped it control a winter outbreak, temporarily bringing infections down to negligible levels. However, by July Delta was spreading widely. Infections subsequently set national records, although death rates were less than half the previous worst.

Israel tried the same approach again, starting booster shots to the already fully vaccinated on July 13, long before anyone else, and collecting abundant data. The Lancet has now published an analysis mining this rich vein of information. Although raw figures already suggested booster shots work, the paper controls for confounding factors such as pre-existing conditions.

The study is based on the period from July 30 to September 23 this year, coinciding with most of Israel's fourth wave, which peaked in early September with around 10,000 cases and 30 deaths a day. Almost all the infections were from the Delta variant.

The authors compared 728,321 people who received a third dose of the Pfizer vaccine with an identical number of people who had their second Pfizer injection at least five months earlier, but had yet to receive a booster. The second group were carefully chosen to match the first as closely as possible, on characteristics including age, sex, location, health status, and known risk-taking and risk-avoiding behavior.

The most dramatic finding was that more than a week after getting the booster shot a person's risk of hospitalization for COVID-19 was 93 percent lower than someone with similar characteristics, but only two shots. The booster was almost as protective for being classified as having severe COVID at 92 percent, and for testing positive for COVID-19 (88 percent) and having any noticeable symptoms (91 percent). The results are similar to a previous study that did not control for pre-existing conditions.

Protection against death, at 81 percent, at first looks disappointing by comparison. However, with only seven deaths among the boosted the error bars are large here, unlike for hospitalizations.

The study reports booster effectiveness was consistent across demographics, including between those over and under 70 years old.

"These results show convincingly that the third dose of the vaccine is highly effective against severe COVID-19-related outcomes in different age groups and population subgroups, one week after the third dose,” said senior author Professor Ran Balicer of the Clalit Research Institute in a statement

The big question the study cannot answer is whether protection from the booster is more enduring than from the original two doses, which is known to wane after six months

The paper acknowledges but does not engage with the issue that while wealthy nations provide boosters to their own people, COVID-19's unchecked spread elsewhere increases the prospects for even worse variants to emerge. On the other hand, it proves that if distributed widely and rapidly enough, vaccines can bring deaths and hospitalizations from Delta under control.

Publication coincides with evidence mRNA vaccines are five times as protective as previous infection with COVID-19.

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Here is a very interesting talk that appears to me using reliable studies. It's about 30 mins and really worth the time. (I don't usually post this sort of thing.


It is acknowledged that:

1/ The drop off of the effective of the vaccines is fairly rapid dropping to about 50% after about 6 months.

2/ Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can both, with or without symptoms, infect others with the virus.

My personal view is that we can get some  protection from the vaccines but ultimately the only lasting protection that we can get is from natural immunity.

I also contend that the faster we open up the faster that herd immunity can develop and the sooner we can essentially treat this like the flu. In other words, short term pain for long term gain.
I think that this is borne out to be true when we compare BC and Fla. When Florida opened up they got a big spike in cases but then fairly rapidly the number of cases dropped off. In BC we have been comparatively restricted and the number of cases has been relatively stable but now over an extended period Fla. has 80% per capita of the number of cases in BC with a lower percentage of vaccinations and their case load has been consistently dropping. 
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Maybe someone can show me where I'm wrong with these stats.

I like to compare the stats in Florida to compare the results of the approaches taken by the respective governments. Both areas have a high number of elderly people. Florida has essential removed all restrictions including the wearing of masks since Sep 2020. BC has had varying levels of restrictions the whole time and still has many in place.

Florida also made available treatment,  (monocloval), everyone over 12 with mild or moderate symptoms free of charge. They even had mobile units to dispense the drug.  This treatment was even extended to those who had been in contact with someone with Covid.

Since the onset of Covid Florida has had far more cases of Covid than has BC. However, I will compare the death rate.

BC population                  BC Covid deaths              % deaths to population   % of total pop. fully vaccinated

5,110,917                         29,089                               .569%                                   74 %

Florida population          Florida Covid deaths      % deaths to population    % of total pop. fully vaccinated

21,477,737                       59,670                               .277%                                   59%

From this we can see that even with a 15% lower rate of vaccination, Florida has had less than ½ the deaths from Covid than BC. has had.

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1 hour ago, GDR said:

BC population                  BC Covid deaths              % deaths to population   % of total pop. fully vaccinated

5,110,917                         29,089                               .569%                                   74 %

Think you might want to check your numbers again. The 29K figure more closely matches total Canadian Covid deaths with approx 2200 assigned to BC.

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4 hours ago, Airband said:

Think you might want to check your numbers again. The 29K figure more closely matches total Canadian Covid deaths with approx 2200 assigned to BC.

Like I say to my wife.. I hate it when you're right.  I took the wrong number from the chart.  I should save myself the embarrassment and delete but I'll just take my lumps instead.

However, in all fairness I'll put in the correct figures which blows that particular point out of the water. 😎

BC population                  BC Covid deaths              % deaths to population   % of total pop. fully vaccinated

5,110,917                           2,192                               .043%                                   74 %

Edited by GDR
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The first link is the summary, the second the article in the Lancet.


Recovered COVID Patients May Have Significantly Reduced Intelligence, Suggests Large Study



Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from COVID-19

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The Grim News 

Covid: WHO warns Europe once again at epicentre of pandemic

27 minutes ago

Europe is once again "at the epicentre" of the Covid pandemic, the World Health Organization (WHO) has warned, as cases soar across the continent.

At a press conference WHO Europe head Hans Kluge said the continent could see half a million more deaths by February.

He blamed insufficient vaccine take-up for the rise.

"We must change our tactics, from reacting to surges of Covid-19 to preventing them from happening in the first place," he said.

The rate of vaccination has slowed across the continent in recent months. While some 80% of people in Spain are double jabbed, that number is lower in France and Germany - at 68% and 66% respectively - and lower still in some central and eastern European countries. Only 32% of Russians were fully vaccinated by October 2021.

Mr Kluge also blamed a relaxation of public health measures for rising infections in the WHO's European region, which covers 53 countries including parts of Central Asia. So far the WHO has recorded 1.4 million deaths across the region.

The WHO's technical lead on Covid-19, Maria Van Kerkhove, said over the past four weeks cases across Europe had soared over 55%, despite an "ample supply of vaccines and tools", and colleague Dr Mike Ryan said Europe's experience was a "warning shot for the world".

It came as Germany recorded almost 34,000 daily Covid cases in the past 24 hours, a record rise.

While the Covid numbers in Germany are below the UK's latest daily case numbers of more than 37,000, public health officials are worried that a fourth wave of infection could lead to a large number of deaths and pressure on the health system. In the past 24 hours 165 deaths have been recorded, up from 126 a week ago.

Lothar Wieler of Germany's RKI institute spoke of terrifying numbers. "If we don't take counter-measures now, this fourth wave will bring yet more suffering," he said. Among the many Germans who have not been vaccinated are more than three million over-60s, seen at particular risk.

But as Hans Kluge pointed out, the surge in cases is not confined to Germany.

The most dramatic rises in fatalities have been in the past week in Russia, where more than 8,100 deaths were recorded, and Ukraine, with 3,800 deaths. Both countries have very low rates of vaccination and Ukraine announced a record 27,377 new cases in the past 24 hours.


Romania recorded its highest number of deaths in 24 hours this week at 591 while in Hungary, daily Covid infections have more than doubled in the past week to 6,268. Mask-wearing is only required on public transport and in hospitals.

"At the moment we seem to be hell-bent on a course that says the pandemic is over, we just need to vaccinate a few more people. That is not the case," said Dr Ryan, who called for every country to plug the holes in their response.

This week the Dutch government said it would reimpose mask-wearing and social distancing in many public settings as it emerged that hospital admissions had gone up 31% in a week.

Latvia meanwhile is imposing a three-month state of emergency from Monday amid a record level of Covid infection.

Croatia recorded 6,310 new cases on Thursday, its highest number so far. Slovakia has reported its second highest number of cases and Czech infections have returned to levels last seen in spring.

England's deputy chief medical officer Prof Jonathan Van-Tam said on Wednesday that too many people believed the pandemic was over.

However, in countries with the highest vaccination rates, infection rates are still relatively low.

Italy has one of the highest vaccination rates for over-12s but even here new cases are up 16.6% in the past week.

Portuguese infections have risen above 1,000 for the first time since September. Spain is one of the few countries not to see a rise in transmission with 2,287 cases reported on Wednesday.

This article contains a detailed list of countries, deaths, death rate and total cases.

Very long listing as you can probably imagine so here is the goto for the complete article

Covid: WHO warns Europe once again at epicentre of pandemic - BBC News

*Deaths per 100,000 people

This information is regularly updated but may not reflect the latest totals for each country.

** The past data for new cases is a three day rolling average. Due to revisions in the number of cases, an average cannot be calculated for this date.

Source: Johns Hopkins University and national public health agencies

Figures last updated: 1 November 2021, 09:31 GMT





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There have been numerous other treatments available but now that there is one from one of the big pharmaceuticals we may be able to move away from the vaccines.

Is it possible that Pfizer was forced into this because of the antidote being considered by Merck? I hate to be so suspicious, but for big pharma big money often seems to be the priority, and if the money is going to move away from the vaccines to antidotes then Pfizer will want to be there.


Pfizer Inc. said Friday that its experimental antiviral pill for COVID-19 cut rates of hospitalization and death by nearly 90 per cent as the drugmaker joins the race to bring the first easy-to-use medication against the coronavirus to the U.S. market.

Currently all COVID-19 treatments used in the U.S. require an IV or injection. Competitor Merck’s COVID-19 pill is already under review at the Food and Drug Administration after showing strong initial results, and on Thursday the United Kingdom became the first country to OK it.

Pfizer said it will ask the FDA and international regulators to authorize its pill as soon as possible, after independent experts recommended halting the company’s study based on the strength of its results. Once Pfizer applies, the FDA could make a decision within weeks or months.

Researchers worldwide have been racing to find a pill against COVID-19 that can be taken at home to ease symptoms, speed recovery and reduce the crushing burden on hospitals and doctors.

Pfizer released preliminary results Friday of its study of 775 adults. Patients taking the company’s drug along with another antiviral had an 89 per cent reduction in their combined rate of hospitalization or death after a month, compared to patients taking a dummy pill. Fewer than one per cent of patients taking the drug needed to be hospitalized and no one died. In the comparison group, seven per cent were hospitalized and there were seven deaths.

“We were hoping that we had something extraordinary, but it’s rare that you see great drugs come through with almost 90 per cent efficacy and 100 per cent protection for death,” said Dr. Mikael Dolsten, Pfizer’s chief scientific officer, in an interview.

Fauci says Merck data on its COVID-19 pill treatment ‘impressive’ – Oct 1, 2021

Study participants were unvaccinated, with mild-to-moderate COVID-19, and were considered high risk for hospitalization due to health problems like obesity, diabetes or heart disease. Treatment began within three to five days of initial symptoms, and lasted for five days.

Pfizer reported few details on side effects but said rates of problems were similar between the groups at about 20 per cent.

An independent group of medical experts monitoring the trial recommended stopping it early, standard procedure when interim results show such a clear benefit. The data have not yet been published for outside review, the normal process for vetting new medical research.

Top U.S. health officials continue to stress that vaccination will remain the best way to protect against infection. But with tens of millions of adults still unvaccinated — and many more globally — effective, easy-to-use treatments will be critical to curbing future waves of infections.

The FDA has set a public meeting later this month to review Merck’s pill, known as molnupiravir. The company reported in September that its drug cut rates of hospitalization and death by 50 per cent. Experts warn against comparing preliminary results because of differences in studies.

Although Merck’s pill is further along in the U.S. regulatory process, Pfizer’s drug could benefit from a safety profile that is more familiar to regulators with fewer red flags. While pregnant women were excluded from the Merck trial due to a potential risk of birth defects, Pfizer’s drug did not have any similar restrictions. The Merck drug works by interfering with the coronavirus’ genetic code, a novel approach to disrupting the virus.

Edited by GDR
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Interesting developments.

The Pfizer pill also needs to be taken with another drug...

"Patients taking the company’s drug along with another antiviral had an 89 per cent reduction in their combined rate of hospitalization or death after a month, compared to patients taking a dummy pill."

So is it the new drug or the combination that is effective?  And what is the 'other antiviral'?

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1 hour ago, Kargokings said:

From the following, this is not a replacement for the vaccination but rather a treatment for those who  by the the virus . 


That's the good thing about it. If you can treat Covid effectively then it will make it much easier to allow natural immunity to take over and the vaccines will become optional like the flu shot, or maybe even be included in the flu shot.

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20 hours ago, Airband said:


Thank you for that.

Also, from KK's link, it appears that it is a sole drug application, not in combination with another drug.


It is encouraging that they are trying it as an anti-viral to lower the load on ones system when infected, however, with the reluctance of a portion to take the vaccine, what would their reaction be when they find out they are being prescribed an HIV medication that was discontinued for that use due to it's side effects?


Ritonavir is available as a generic so its appearance will vary. Ritonavir was one of the first protease inhibitors developed, but is no longer used as an anti-HIV drug due to its side effects. 

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20 hours ago, GDR said:

If you can treat Covid effectively then it will make it much easier to allow natural immunity to take over and the vaccines will become optional like the flu shot, or maybe even be included in the flu shot.

Yeah, there's a good idea.  🙄  Why not add it to milk like Vitamin D or add it to table salt like Iodine?

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7 hours ago, deicer said:

Thank you for that.

Also, from KK's link, it appears that it is a sole drug application, not in combination with another drug.


Pfizer's pill is given in combination with an older antiviral called ritonavir. The treatment consists of three pills given twice daily. It has been in development for nearly two years.

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17 minutes ago, Kargokings said:


Pfizer's pill is given in combination with an older antiviral called ritonavir. The treatment consists of three pills given twice daily. It has been in development for nearly two years.

There have been many doctors who have tried/used various anti-viral medications to great success (apparently).  It makes sense that since Covid is a virus that existing anti-viral medications would have some benefit.

It also makes sense that various home remedy treatments for viral infection would be beneficial.  Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Zinc, nebulized hydrogen peroxide, etc.  These things, while not being a "cure", offer some benefit and reduction in symptoms and severity.

I am constantly surprised that "proven" beneficial treatments are not widely deciminated.  Take your Vitamin C, take your Vitamin D, take some Zinc and wash your hands, wear a mask, etc, etc.

No, taking these measures will not totally prevent infection but there's good evidence that it will reduce the chance of being infected and will reduce the severity if you are infected.  Well worth the effort.



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15 minutes ago, Kargokings said:

Seeker, use the power and enable likes etc for your posts.   😀

Nah, wouldn't be fair.  Opens the door to abuse and favouritism claims.

Besides, I'm not in it for the "likes".  

I appreciate the sentiment though.  👍

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Well, ivermectin didn't work in this case...


B.C. COVID-19 denier publicly states he is ill, dies days later

Mak Parhar told his social media followers that he was sick with a sore throat and body chills. However he denied that he had the COVID-19 virus.

A B.C. conspiracy theorist who made headlines early on in the pandemic for claims that hot yoga could destroy the COVID-19 virus has died, just days after saying he was ill on social media.

Mak Parhar, 48, who also claimed the Earth is flat, died in New Westminster on Thursday, according to multiple media reports. The B.C. Coroners Service is investigating but has not determined a cause of death.


Condolences poured in on social media from Parhar’s supporters on Friday, with some noting that he leaves behind a wife and daughter.

In a now deleted Oct. 22 post on Twitch , Parhar told his followers that he was suffering from fatigue, a cough and body chills but that it was not “CON-VID.”

A day before he died, he posted a video on Facebook in which he talks about various topics and can be seen coughing. He said he has been sick for three weeks and again denied that it was “CON-VID.”

Parhar also said he took Ivermectin, a controversial horse deworming drug that Canadian authorities have warned against using to treat COVID-19 .

“I did take that and I felt about 40 or 50 per cent better,” he said in the Facebook video. He added that he was feeling ill and had felt better the day before.

Last year, Parhar was charged with violating the Quarantine Act after returning from an out-of-country flat Earth conference called Flatoberfest 2020 — a one-day gathering of self-described “alternative cosmology enthusiasts.”

He later bragged about his refusal to self-isolate during a rally in downtown Vancouver.

New Westminster police said that after receiving a violation ticket, Parhar continued to leave his residence. He attended Vancouver-area protests against COVID-19 restrictions and repeatedly called the coronavirus a hoax.

In March, the City of Delta revoked the business licence of his hot yoga studio, Bikram Yoga Delta, after Parhar flouted the B.C. ban on gatherings and made false claims about heat destroying the coronavirus.

A Delta bylaw officer visited the business and discovered a class in progress.

Dr. Bonnie Henry, B.C.’s provincial health officer, later said going to a hot yoga studio is one of the worst things to do, noting that a place where people are sweating next to each other is the “perfect environment” to spread the virus.

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