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Unvaccinated people are 'variant factories,' infectious diseases expert says

 

Published Saturday, July 3, 2021 8:58AM EDT

Last Updated Saturday, July 3, 2021 11:19AM EDT 

Unvaccinated people do more than merely risk their own health. They're also a risk to everyone if they become infected with coronavirus, infectious disease specialists say.

That's because the only source of new coronavirus variants is the body of an infected person.

"Unvaccinated people are potential variant factories," Dr. William Schaffner, a professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, told CNN Friday.

'Step up and get vaccinated': How adults should protect children from COVID-19 variants

A double-dosed Trudeau says Canada set to fully vaccinate all eligible by the end of summer

Unvaccinated employees could face masks, segregation upon return to office: Experts

Where is the Delta variant most prevalent in Canada?

 Newsletter sign-up: Get The COVID-19 Brief sent to your inbox

"The more unvaccinated people there are, the more opportunities for the virus to multiply," Schaffner, a professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, said.

"When it does, it mutates, and it could throw off a variant mutation that is even more serious down the road."

All viruses mutate, and while the coronavirus is not particularly mutation-prone, it does change and evolve.

Most of the changes mean nothing to the virus, and some can weaken it. But sometimes, a virus develops a random mutation that gives it an advantage -- better transmissibility, for instance, or more efficient replication, or an ability to infect a great diversity of hosts.

Viruses with an advantage will outcompete other viruses, and will eventually make up the majority of virus particles infecting someone. If that infected person passes the virus to someone else, they'll be passing along the mutant version.

If a mutant version is successful enough, it becomes a variant.

But it has to replicate to do that. An unvaccinated person provides that opportunity.

"As mutations come up in viruses, the ones that persist are the ones that make it easier for the virus to spread in the population," Andrew Pekosz, a microbiologist and immunologist at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, told CNN.

"Every time the viruses changes, that gives the virus a different platform to add more mutations. Now we have viruses that spread more efficiently."

Viruses that don't spread cannot mutate.

Variants have arisen all over the world -- the B.1.1.7 or Alpha variant was first seen in England. The B.1.351 or Beta variant was first spotted in South Africa. The Delta variant, also called B.1.617.2, was seen first in India. And the U.S. has thrown up several of its own variants, including the B.1.427 or Epsilon lineage first seen in California and the B.1.526 or Eta variant first seen in New York.

Already, one new variant has swept much of the world. Last summer, a version of the virus carrying a mutation called D614G went from Europe to the US and then the rest of the world. The change made the virus more successful—it replicated better -- so that version took over from the original strain that emerged from China. It appeared before people starting naming the variants, but it became the default version of the virus.

Most of the newer variants added changes to D614G. The Alpha variant, or B.1.1.7, became the dominant variant in the US by late spring thanks to its extra transmissibility. Now the Delta variant is even more transmissible, and it's set to become the dominant variant in many countries, including the US.

The current vaccines protect well against all the variants so far, but that could change at any moment. That's why doctors and public health officials want more people to get vaccinated.

"The more we allow the virus to spread, the more opportunity the virus has to change," the World Health Organization advised last month.

Vaccines are not widely available in many countries. But in the U.S., there is plenty of supply, with slowing demand. Just 18 states have fully vaccinated more than half their residents, according to data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"Currently, approximately 1,000 counties in the United States have vaccination coverage of less than 30%. These communities, primarily in the Southeast and Midwest, are our most vulnerable. In some of these areas, we are already seeing increasing rates of disease," CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told a White House briefing Thursday.

"Every time we see the virus circulating in the population, particularly a population that has pockets of immune people, vaccinated people, and pockets of unvaccinated people, you have a situation where the virus can probe," Pekosz said.

If a virus tries to infect someone with immunity, it may fail, or it may succeed and cause a mild or asymptomatic infection. In that case, it will replicate in response to the pressure from a primed immune system.

Like a bank robber whose picture is on wanted posters everywhere, the virus that succeeds will be the virus that makes a random change that makes it look less visible to the immune system.

Those populations of unvaccinated people give the virus the chance not only to spread, but to change.

"All it takes is one mutation in one person," said Dr. Philip Landrigan, a pediatrician and immunologist at Boston College.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Kargokings said:

Unvaccinated people are 'variant factories,' infectious diseases expert says

After all of the (deliberate) suppression of contrary minded expert opinions, take a moment and imagine the outrage if this all goes wrong..... what if (for instance) mass prion diseases show up in the vaccinated population a few years from now. Seriously, was there a single aspect of Covid related expert opinion that was correct out of  starting blocks? Cautionary/contrary expert opinion exists.... it's just been suppressed and banned by the same people who hold themselves immune from responsibility if it all goes bad. 

I saw that article on CNN's website..... the bloody arrogance  is breathtaking. 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Wolfhunter said:

After all of the (deliberate) suppression of contrary minded expert opinions, take a moment and imagine the outrage if this all goes wrong..... what if (for instance) mass prion diseases show up in the vaccinated population a few years from now. Seriously, was there a single aspect of Covid related expert opinion that was correct out of  starting blocks?

I saw that article on CNN's website..... the bloody arrogance  is breathtaking. 

 

 

 

And your learned opinion says?  Backed of course by your various medical and research degrees?  Or perhaps just what you have gleaned from the internet? 🙃

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Kargokings said:

And your learned opinion says?  Backed of course by your various medical and research degrees?  🙃

Yes.... that's exactly the arrogant  BS I'm talking about. People aren't as smart as they think they are, nature finds a way. 

Remember when feeding sheep byproducts to cows was considered a great source of protein? Many old school farmers were soundly ridiculed about contrary opinions on that subject too. It seems only PHDs (and maybe the MBA crew) think cows eat sheep.... us dummies were always a bit suspicious.

We could build an entire thread around this. These are the sort of discussions that should be occurring and aren't. 

The nightmare scenario would be if e.g. the mRNA vaccines’ lipid nanoparticles are, indeed, crossing the BBB and getting endocytosed into critical glial cells, like oligodendrocytes, or even worse, into neurons themselves in the brain and spinal cord, putting a bullseye on these critical cells for cytotoxic [T-cells].


Thinking themselves wise, they became fools.

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35 minutes ago, Wolfhunter said:

Yes.... that's exactly the arrogant  BS I'm talking about. People aren't as smart as they think they are, nature finds a way. 

 

Likely those who have done the study and learned the science are smarter than you think they are. As far as people being smarter than nature, perhaps in some cases, not in others. As with with most things there is no "point zero" when it comes to knowledge and effect, except in perhaps explosions and that also has some variables.  😀

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Kargokings said:

Likely those who have done the study and learned the science are smarter than you think they are.

As are the voices of top scientists who have been cancelled... and that's my point. Even with all the evidence giving rise to rational questions about virus origin, the notion of an accidental lab release was sufficient to get you banned from social media sites for even asking the question or suggesting the link. Until POOF, and it wasn't.

 I'd like to hear the contrarian view from knowledgeable people. I'd like to hear their concerns about such things as prion diseases, and I'd like to hear them discussed/debated in a rational manner. I'll even settle for being able to find those voices online.... there's no shortage of rudimentary( conspiracy) nonsense BTW, that's most definitely not what I'm talking about.

The longer my questions go unanswered and the more ridicule associated with asking them, the less likely I am to participate. About 30% of the population (and virtually all Gulf War veterans) share that sentiment and it's not a mindless anti-vaccer sentiment either..... I've been to lots of prime vacation sites and have had pretty much every vaccine/medication/test you could think of including the anti-malarial's deemed dangerous by the TDS afflicted media. Far too much self serving, politically motivated crap on offer for the average person to work it all out. STOP IT, or accept the fact that people like me (that 30%) will ignore the screams.

If over the long term this goes sideways, there will be lots of people asking the same questions I (and others) are asking now.  And, If that happens, I'm willing to bet that smug answers from drug companies and politicians will become as unacceptable to you, after the fact, as they are to me and many others right now. 

Beware the concept of "POOF," especially if that puff of poof contains smoke. Even more so if it's  kindled by politicians, drug companies and/or social media giants and the stream of smoke is directed toward your hind quarters.

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23 hours ago, Kargokings said:

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Unvaccinated people are 'variant factories,' infectious diseases expert says

 

Published Saturday, July 3, 2021 8:58AM EDT

Last Updated Saturday, July 3, 2021 11:19AM EDT 

Unvaccinated people do more than merely risk their own health. They're also a risk to everyone if they become infected with coronavirus, infectious disease specialists say.

That's because the only source of new coronavirus variants is the body of an infected person.

"Unvaccinated people are potential variant factories," Dr. William Schaffner, a professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, told CNN Friday.

'Step up and get vaccinated': How adults should protect children from COVID-19 variants

A double-dosed Trudeau says Canada set to fully vaccinate all eligible by the end of summer

Unvaccinated employees could face masks, segregation upon return to office: Experts

Where is the Delta variant most prevalent in Canada?

 Newsletter sign-up: Get The COVID-19 Brief sent to your inbox

"The more unvaccinated people there are, the more opportunities for the virus to multiply," Schaffner, a professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, said.

"When it does, it mutates, and it could throw off a variant mutation that is even more serious down the road."

All viruses mutate, and while the coronavirus is not particularly mutation-prone, it does change and evolve.

Most of the changes mean nothing to the virus, and some can weaken it. But sometimes, a virus develops a random mutation that gives it an advantage -- better transmissibility, for instance, or more efficient replication, or an ability to infect a great diversity of hosts.

Viruses with an advantage will outcompete other viruses, and will eventually make up the majority of virus particles infecting someone. If that infected person passes the virus to someone else, they'll be passing along the mutant version.

If a mutant version is successful enough, it becomes a variant.

But it has to replicate to do that. An unvaccinated person provides that opportunity.

"As mutations come up in viruses, the ones that persist are the ones that make it easier for the virus to spread in the population," Andrew Pekosz, a microbiologist and immunologist at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, told CNN.

"Every time the viruses changes, that gives the virus a different platform to add more mutations. Now we have viruses that spread more efficiently."

Viruses that don't spread cannot mutate.

Variants have arisen all over the world -- the B.1.1.7 or Alpha variant was first seen in England. The B.1.351 or Beta variant was first spotted in South Africa. The Delta variant, also called B.1.617.2, was seen first in India. And the U.S. has thrown up several of its own variants, including the B.1.427 or Epsilon lineage first seen in California and the B.1.526 or Eta variant first seen in New York.

Already, one new variant has swept much of the world. Last summer, a version of the virus carrying a mutation called D614G went from Europe to the US and then the rest of the world. The change made the virus more successful—it replicated better -- so that version took over from the original strain that emerged from China. It appeared before people starting naming the variants, but it became the default version of the virus.

Most of the newer variants added changes to D614G. The Alpha variant, or B.1.1.7, became the dominant variant in the US by late spring thanks to its extra transmissibility. Now the Delta variant is even more transmissible, and it's set to become the dominant variant in many countries, including the US.

The current vaccines protect well against all the variants so far, but that could change at any moment. That's why doctors and public health officials want more people to get vaccinated.

"The more we allow the virus to spread, the more opportunity the virus has to change," the World Health Organization advised last month.

Vaccines are not widely available in many countries. But in the U.S., there is plenty of supply, with slowing demand. Just 18 states have fully vaccinated more than half their residents, according to data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"Currently, approximately 1,000 counties in the United States have vaccination coverage of less than 30%. These communities, primarily in the Southeast and Midwest, are our most vulnerable. In some of these areas, we are already seeing increasing rates of disease," CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told a White House briefing Thursday.

"Every time we see the virus circulating in the population, particularly a population that has pockets of immune people, vaccinated people, and pockets of unvaccinated people, you have a situation where the virus can probe," Pekosz said.

If a virus tries to infect someone with immunity, it may fail, or it may succeed and cause a mild or asymptomatic infection. In that case, it will replicate in response to the pressure from a primed immune system.

Like a bank robber whose picture is on wanted posters everywhere, the virus that succeeds will be the virus that makes a random change that makes it look less visible to the immune system.

Those populations of unvaccinated people give the virus the chance not only to spread, but to change.

"All it takes is one mutation in one person," said Dr. Philip Landrigan, a pediatrician and immunologist at Boston College.

Good Morning KK:

Thank you for the links you provide as they are "interesting" reading. As a benchmark or reference point beginning of April  Ontario was averaging 4500 new cases of COVID-19 per day and as of yesterday (CTV source) 213 new cases. So the question that begs to be asked is why? In my thinking it is the accelerated rate of vaccine roll out in Ontario which is finally beginning to bear fruit.

How one addresses Vaccine hesitancy will be the one science/governments will have to address as social media has taken a life on its own with wildly divergent theories. One should look at why we do not have smallpox, polio and other historically killer diseases from the past which has been due to successful vaccines applied world wide. For the anti-vaccine crowd yes it is your choice but would you be willing to sign an affidavit waiving your right to medical care if you got COVID-19?

So who gets the "posthumous Darwin award" it will be up to the arbitrators of history to decide. For myself I will follow the guidance of science and the medical profession. Oh spoiler alert I am fully vaccinated as of 4 weeks ago.  

 

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2 hours ago, A330PilotCanada said:

Good Morning KK:

Thank you for the links you provide as they are "interesting" reading. As a benchmark or reference point beginning of April  Ontario was averaging 4500 new cases of COVID-19 per day and as of yesterday (CTV source) 213 new cases. So the question that begs to be asked is why? In my thinking it is the accelerated rate of vaccine roll out in Ontario which is finally beginning to bear fruit.

How one addresses Vaccine hesitancy will be the one science/governments will have to address as social media has taken a life on its own with wildly divergent theories. One should look at why we do not have smallpox, polio and other historically killer diseases from the past which has been due to successful vaccines applied world wide. For the anti-vaccine crowd yes it is your choice but would you be willing to sign an affidavit waiving your right to medical care if you got COVID-19?

So who gets the "posthumous Darwin award" it will be up to the arbitrators of history to decide. For myself I will follow the guidance of science and the medical profession. Oh spoiler alert I am fully vaccinated as of 4 weeks ago.  

 

1.  Why are case counts falling?  Two reasons; fewer tests being done therefore fewer false positives, lowering of cycle thresholds which reduce the number of false positives.

2.  Yeah, I'll sign an affidavit waiving my right to medical care when the the guy down the street signs one because of his junk food diet and his wife signs one because of her 1-bottle-a-day wine habit and my neighbour on the other side signs one because of his reckless participation in downhill skiing (that's dangerous you know and nobody has to go skiing).  Why should I have to pay for the medical expenses if he skiis into a tree - it's only a recreational activity?

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35 minutes ago, seeker said:

1.  Why are case counts falling?  Two reasons; fewer tests being done therefore fewer false positives, lowering of cycle thresholds which reduce the number of false positives.

2.  Yeah, I'll sign an affidavit waiving my right to medical care when the the guy down the street signs one because of his junk food diet and his wife signs one because of her 1-bottle-a-day wine habit and my neighbour on the other side signs one because of his reckless participation in downhill skiing (that's dangerous you know and nobody has to go skiing).  Why should I have to pay for the medical expenses if he skiis into a tree - it's only a recreational activity?

Good Afternoon Seeker:

The other metric to use is the decline in ICU case count (source Government of Ontario)

Hospitalizations | COVID-19 (coronavirus) in Ontario

Regarding the affidavit sort of tongue in cheek but if one is convinced that the vaccine is unproven and COVID-19 is just a conspiracy the courage of ones convictions would suggest signing the affidavit would be intellectually honest wouldn't it?

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5 minutes ago, A330PilotCanada said:

Regarding the affidavit sort of tongue in cheek but if one is convinced that the vaccine is unproven and COVID-19 is just a conspiracy the courage of ones convictions would suggest signing the affidavit would be intellectually honest wouldn't it?

Let's get those who choose the vaccine to demonstrate the courage of their convictions;  sign a waiver to decline medical interventions for side-effects.  As I said once you start down the road of signing waivers for activities that "someone" deems unsafe there's no end.  First of all, who decides? Driving a sports car is dangerous, motorcycling dangerous, riding a pedal bike is dangerous, skiiing is dangerous, junk food, smoking dope, rock climbing, drinking too much, eating organic vegetables, commuting 5 days a week in rush hour traffic - it's all dangerous and I don't do any of it.  Why am I subsidizing the health care for the people who do those things?

 

You really don't want to get me started on "intellectual honesty".

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33 minutes ago, deicer said:

Some nsfw language, but it makes the point...

Penn and Teller on Vaccinations - YouTube

That video is from 2010.  Completely different situation.  I am not anti-vax.  I've had every vaccination recommended and so have my children.  I would get the flu shot every year, I got Shingrix. I'd take any classic vaccination that comes my way and so would almost everyone.  This one is different.  It's not a "vaccination" as we commonly understood it.  They have created a new technology that is untested and called it a "vaccine" because they know that most people won't be smart enough to tell the difference (or they don't have the time to sort out the lies from the truth).

Posting a video from 2010 about classic vaccines to support Covid vaccination is the perfect example of a misleading narrative.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, seeker said:

They have created a new technology that is untested and called it a "vaccine" because they know that most people won't be smart enough to tell the difference (or they don't have the time to sort out the lies from the truth).

Ain't that the truth....

This is the first vaccine to use PEG;

The first to use mRNA technology; and

The first injection of genetically modified polynucleotides in the general population.

And all to counter the effects of a man made problem that, until recently, was the domain of liars, Trumpers and rednecks banned from social media platforms.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Wolfhunter said:

Ain't that the truth....

And all to counter the effects of a man made problem that, until recently, was the domain of liars, Trumpers and rednecks banned from social media platforms.

Are you absolutely certain it was man made? or are you basing your opinion on what you read on the proven inaccurate / biased press and social media? 😀

Who knows, I know I don't, perhaps this is more accurate?

The coronavirus was not engineered in a lab. Here's how we know. | Live Science

However ignoring the "sky may be falling" tin foil hat reaction, the new Vaccines ,no matter what you call them, appear to be working. 👍

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5 hours ago, Kargokings said:

 

The coronavirus was not engineered in a lab. Here's how we know. | Live Science

However ignoring the "sky may be falling" tin foil hat reaction, the new Vaccines ,no matter what you call them, appear to be working. 👍

Careful.  Your linked article is from March 2020.  Most recent thought is the exact opposite - that it was engineered in a lab.  As for your assessment that "it appears to be working" - the testing numbers are significantly less than they were a few months ago.  Less testing = less cases.  That doesn't even account for the shenanigans with cycle threshold.  I think there's a lot of inconvenient truth out there that isn't be reported.  Besides - this story is not over yet.  What if we find out (next year) that vaccinated people are more vulnerable to Covid21?  What if we find out (in 3 years) that it doubles the possibility of heart disease?  What if we find out it triggers a prion disease?  Prion diseases can take decades to show up.  I'm not saying this things will happen or even that they're likely to happen but that's just the point - we don't know since it's the first use of the technology.

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Aside from fear mongering, have any of the supposed 'effects' of mRNA vaccines shown up in any of the test subjects from the research that started back in the 1990's?

While it is 'new' in mass roll out, the research has been going on for 30 years and no major problems have come to light.

Yes, with this many being vaccinated, you will always have those who react, it happens with any vaccine.  It still comes down to the science and moving forward.  How many cases of smallpox or polio have you seen lately?

https://www.oligotherapeutics.org/facts-about-mrna-vaccines-and-the-decades-of-research-that-went-into-creating-them/

https://www.uab.edu/news/youcanuse/item/12059-covid-19-mrna-vaccines-how-could-anything-developed-this-quickly-be-safe

As for the video from 2010, it still is relevant because it shows how being vaccinated works.  If you wish to attack it, please show how vaccines haven't been effective against polio, smallpox, pertussis, varicella, shingles, etc.

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19 hours ago, seeker said:

That video is from 2010.  Completely different situation.  I am not anti-vax.  I've had every vaccination recommended and so have my children.  I would get the flu shot every year, I got Shingrix. I'd take any classic vaccination that comes my way and so would almost everyone.  This one is different.  It's not a "vaccination" as we commonly understood it.  They have created a new technology that is untested and called it a "vaccine" because they know that most people won't be smart enough to tell the difference (or they don't have the time to sort out the lies from the truth).

Posting a video from 2010 about classic vaccines to support Covid vaccination is the perfect example of a misleading narrative.

Then get the AstraZeneca or the Johnson and Johnson those ones are not new technology those are all based on live virus. Only the Pfizer and moderna are M RNA vaccines. In the general way they function they are equivalent to a standard traditional vaccine except that they do not use a live virus to create the proteins required and are considered to actually be safer.

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6 hours ago, seeker said:

Careful.  Your linked article is from March 2020.  Most recent thought is the exact opposite - that it was engineered in a lab.  As for your assessment that "it appears to be working" - the testing numbers are significantly less than they were a few months ago.  Less testing = less cases.  That doesn't even account for the shenanigans with cycle threshold.  I think there's a lot of inconvenient truth out there that isn't be reported.  Besides - this story is not over yet.  What if we find out (next year) that vaccinated people are more vulnerable to Covid21?  What if we find out (in 3 years) that it doubles the possibility of heart disease?  What if we find out it triggers a prion disease?  Prion diseases can take decades to show up.  I'm not saying this things will happen or even that they're likely to happen but that's just the point - we don't know since it's the first use of the technology.

A vaccine has no way of making you more vulnerable to another virus it simply causes the body to react to the specific spike protein. If that spike protein does not exist the body does not respond if a new virus comes out that would indicate that the spike protein is different or of a different shape and would require a new vaccine there is no way for the current vaccine to make your body's response worse to a new virus that's not how it works

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7 hours ago, seeker said:

  As for your assessment that "it appears to be working" - the testing numbers are significantly less than they were a few months ago.  Less testing = less cases.  

Fewer deaths would seem to support my assessment that "it appears to be working". No?

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2 minutes ago, Kargokings said:

Fewer deaths would seem to support my assessment that "it appears to be working". No?

Fewer deaths attributed to Covid.

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1 hour ago, Kargokings said:

Yes and I don't think that information is fudged to hide Covid deaths.....  

Of course there's no hiding of Covid deaths, what's the sense of that.  But the earlier deaths attributed to Covid.......that's a whole different kettle of fish.

Isn't it strange that the death rate from everything else fell almost to zero in 2020?  That's hyperbole - don't go looking for rebuttals.  There are numerous, numerous accounts of "Covid" simply being the default cause-of-death whether or not it stood scrutiny.

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17 hours ago, boestar said:

A vaccine has no way of making you more vulnerable to another virus it simply causes the body to react to the specific spike protein. If that spike protein does not exist the body does not respond if a new virus comes out that would indicate that the spike protein is different or of a different shape and would require a new vaccine there is no way for the current vaccine to make your body's response worse to a new virus that's not how it works

It's not meant to be taken literally.  My point is that we don't know what possible knock-on effects there might be.  Do you know that during the Spanish Flu young adults were more affected than older people and children.  This is not the normal flu effect and was due to a stronger immune response which caused a cytostorm - completely unexpected.  If there is any sort of adverse longterm effect to the "vaccines" the scientists will say, "well, we didn't expect that".

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, seeker said:

"well, we didn't expect that".

As I reflect on the history here, from "come to China Town" to the mask debate, border controls, hotel quarantines, the LTA fiasco in New York, etc, etc and on and on..... I'm trying to think of specific actions that were well done and that stood the test of time.

Very few things caused me to say "yes, good idea, let's do that.  Mostly I watched in awe as people shipped their cars across the border and burnt their cities down. My level of trust in government and the media has slipped a bit as a result. While I admire those who muster the faith to believe, I simply don't share that faith. Some thoughtful people have thoughtful questions and when they are met with ridicule in the form of tin hats, Trumper, fear monger, conspiracy theorist (etc) it only serves to make me more cautious.... not less.

The Washington Post now wants action on investigating the lab leak theory.... there's a sentence worthy of its own paragraph eh?

Most ironic of all (and it's a personal observation and clearly anecdotal), those who openly ridicule Christian beliefs seem the most likely to believe the government and media without too much question or pushback. I really didn't expect that.

 

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