Kobe Bryant killed in helicopter crash

[Airband]

Kobe Bryant, daughter, 7 others killed in helicopter crash

[J.O.]

News is now saying there were nine people on board, all fatally injured. 

[Guest]

It is always sad when someone dies by accident but I can never understand the rush to express grief by people who did not know the man, or perhaps never watched him play. If only as much attention was paid to the demise of non celebrities.

The headlines for instance are saying:  

Quote

www.cnbc.com › 2020/01/26 › world-leaders-and-athletes-mourn-the...

 

World leaders and athletes mourn the death of Kobe Bryant

 

1.  

2 hours ago - The world mourned the death of NBA legend Kobe Bryant and his ... to world leaders expressing grief and condolences on social media. Bryant ...

 

[st27]

Can anybody comment on the S76....assuming the a/c was under its gross weight, reasonable temps and say 1000’ asl...could the a/c maintain level flight with an engine out??
Quite the debris field...

[Kip Powick]

....and now the law suits start.....

"Apparently" it has been reported that a "tower" told the helo driver  three  minutes before it crashed that he was too low for the area he was flying in....

[Wolfhunter]

I’m not an S76 guy but I read a news report (for what that may be worth) which indicated the aircraft descended from 2000 feet and impacted the hill at aprox 160 kts in a 4000 fpm descent. If true, both parameters are excessive by any measure.... max speed would likely be in the realm of 150-155 Kts. Apparently conditions were foggy at the time. To me, those parameters imply loss of control….. I would not wish to speculate beyond that.

BTW, I’m certainly not implying that any (potential) loss of control was the result of pilot error, helicopters share similar flight characteristics with bumble bees, there are a host of possibilities.

[st27]

Here is a link with an embedded ATC recording of the helicopters flight:

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/kobe-bryant-killed-in-helicopter-crash/?MailingID=272&utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Kobe+Bryant+Among+Nine+Dead+In+Crash%2C+MAX+Confusion&utm_campaign=Kobe+Bryant+Among+Nine+Dead+In+Crash%2C+MAX+Confusion-Monday+January+27%2C+2020

Click on the blue “atc recording”.....and no, the weather wasn’t good for VFR.

[boestar]

41 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:

....and now the law suits start.....

"Apparently" it has been reported that a "tower" told the helo driver  three  minutes before it crashed that he was too low for the area he was flying in....

Too low for flight following.  He was probably below the airspace.  

[blues deville]

5 hours ago, boestar said:

Too low for flight following.  He was probably below the airspace.  

Yes. Below radar coverage. 

However, it you’re going play around in SVFR conditions you’d better know the area your flying in like the back of your hand. Monday morning QB stuff but he should have parked it and let them Uber the rest of the way. 

[Fido]

18 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

....and now the law suits start.....

"Apparently" it has been reported that a "tower" told the helo driver  three  minutes before it crashed that he was too low for the area he was flying in....

I think that you are on the right track here.

Look at the graph for verticle speed, ground speed, and altitude.

The helicopter did not appear from the altitude trace to lose much.

[Kip Powick]

What caused the chopper that was carrying Kobe Bryant and eight others to crash on Sunday?

At around 9:45 a.m. (12 p.m. ET) on a Sikorsky S-76B helicopter was lost against a hillside near the town of Calabasas, California, about 30 miles northwest of Los Angeles. We are now painfully aware that the aircraft was carrying nine people that included Bryant and his 13-year-old daughter.

National Transportation Safety Board officials were on the site Sunday to begin their investigation, and like them, we will have to be patient and wait to learn what caused this disaster. In the meantime, I'll try to shed a little light here about factors to consider.

This particular helicopter was manufactured in 1991 and is owned and operated by what appears to be a well-established charter operation. (The company, Island Express Helicopters released a statement that said, in part, that the pilot, "Ara Zobayan, was our chief pilot. Ara has been with the company for over 10 years and has over 8,000 flight hours. We are working closely with the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) to investigate the cause of the accident and we are grateful to the first responders and local authorities for their response to this unimaginable accident.") It is a sophisticated piece of machinery designed as the commercial version of the military Black Hawk. The helicopter is far more advanced than, say, the type seen on the opening intro of the 70s TV show M*A*S*H.

Two Pratt and Whitney turbo shaft engines power the large, main rotor and the tail rotor. In other words, two small jet engines operate in unison to supply power to the gearbox that turns the helicopter's blades, making it a very reliable system.

The Sikorsky departed the John Wayne, Orange County Airport northbound toward Van Nuys Airport. Reports from the Aviation Weather Chart Archive indicate that the weather at departure was overcast, with a cloud ceiling of 1,000 feet and a visibility of four miles. Although conditions would be considered marginal but legal for fixed wing aircraft -- the kind I have mainly flown for decades -- operating under the visual flight rules set by the Federal Aviation Administration, a helicopter has lower requirements because of its greater maneuverability; it can slow its forward speed to a virtual crawl and hover.

 

 

 

 

So, the weather conditions were not unusual for a helicopter pilot to fly in, nor were they unsafe at the departure airport.

Yes, both the Los Angeles Police Department and the county sheriff's department apparently grounded their own choppers, most likely because their flying policies are more restrictive than a charter helicopter operator (law enforcement flying is often more challenging than just a commercial flight from A to B).

In the case of the doomed helicopter, it would appear that as the flight approached the Van Nuys Airport, following Interstate 5, the visibility was becoming more restrictive. Because of the reduced visibility and the resulting air traffic control requirements for separation between aircraft, the helicopter was asked to remain clear of the airport's airspace while another airplane was completing a procedure. The Sikorsky's pilot circled in a visual holding pattern for approximately 12 minutes, according to tracking data.

After the helicopter was released from the holding pattern, the aircraft was given a clearance to follow Interstate 5 and then follow Freeway 101. The pilot's communication with air traffic control was professional and without any noticeable stress. After over four decades of experience listening to airborne communications, my opinion is that the pilot's responses and tone reflected his familiarity with the routine. You can hear it here.

 

 

 

 

 

All that said, the flight was approaching rising terrain with reduced visibility. In-flight visibility is often less than the horizontal visibility reported on the ground because the thickness of clouds generally increases with altitude. In other words, it can be harder for pilots to see through the clouds in front of them at the higher altitude than controllers might think, from their position on the ground.

If the pilot remains over a road on his or her route to Point B, terrain shouldn't be a major issue because a highway cuts through or goes around hills and obstacles, so the path is clear. But even pilots experienced with a particular route can become disoriented in reduced visibility conditions. If you've driven the car home on a foggy day, you understand. Perhaps the helicopter pilot deviated only for a moment away from the highway and encountered rising terrain without time to correct, and struck the hillside.

The tracking data in the last 15 seconds of the flight indicates that the helicopter was in a rapid descent, accompanied by a rapid increase in airspeed. The increase in airspeed is analogous to pedaling a bicycle downhill. It's possible that the data indicates the pilot made a diving turn away from terrain at the last minute. Investigators will look at everything including whether there was a mechanical abnormality that distracted the pilot, or caused the helicopter to deviate from a safe flight path.

Regardless, the evidence of a relatively large debris field with relatively small pieces of the aircraft scattered at the crash site indicates the helicopter hit the ground at a high rate of speed. Even if a helicopter experiences an engine failure, pilots use a well-practiced maneuver called "autorotation," where the rotor blades spin using only aerodynamic forces, allowing the aircraft to touchdown at a survivable rate of vertical speed. So, the debris field is an indication that something went terribly wrong.

 

 

The NTSB will be conducting a thorough investigation with their focus on items such as, the helicopter maintenance record, weather data, air traffic control operation, aircraft weight and balance, pilot experience, pilot duty times, and pilot toxicology.

Like all aviation accidents, this is an awful tragedy. This investigation may take upwards of a year to find a probable cause, which may involve multiple factors. With this crash being high profile, the investigator in charge will most likely reveal additional information within the coming days. Stay tuned and be patient.

[Schooner69]

The only criticism I have of the trip is that I would have been at a much reduced speed  when encountering the rising ground.  Until that point, the trip was proceeding IAW the FAR and company rules.

 

 

[Don Hudson]

I think this is starting to resemble John F. Kennedy Jr.'s accident.

 

 

[J.O.]

I agree Don.

[Vsplat]

It has been far too long since I thought about this stuff, so maybe someone more current in rotary ops can weigh in  - that said, on the 'go slow' discussion, I seem to recall there was a minimum speed for many helicopters in IFR, below which you had to be visual.  Does anyone else recall this and why that limit existed?  Could it be that this machine was below whatever that min speed was when the pilot attempted to penetrate the cloud and that contributed so the loss?

Vs

[boestar]

Low and slow in a helo is always a bad idea.  Low and fast or high and slow.  When you need to start the trading game you need something to trade.

[Vsplat]

boestar I think you're referring to the height velocity curve.  I was thinking instrument error becomes a thing below a certain speed, in certain aircraft.  Not really sure that applies to the aircraft in question though, as I expect it had up to date avionics.  The only glass in the cockpit of the helicopters I flew was see-through...

Vs

[Fido]

2 hours ago, Vsplat said:

The only glass in the cockpit of the helicopters I flew was see-through

Where is the laughter imogi

[Kip Powick]

...or

 

[Schooner69]

Boestar:

When wandering around in restricted visibility and ceiling, "low and slow is the way to go".    When you're working in visibilities of 1/2 mile or less, speed is not your friend.  BTDT...

 

[Wolfhunter]

Low and slow is the key to murking in a helicopter. The ability to slow down is the very reason helicopter weather limits are lower. Riding the translational lift zone (say 25-30 ish) is uncomfortable and twitchy though.

As conditions worsen, there comes a point when you either land or file IFR. One or two near encounters with wires and towers while murking will make you a believer. Under those conditions, that climb to MOCA can be a horrible feeling too.

Exposure to situations like that is what teaches you to say no.

 

 

[Don Hudson]

Schooner69, Wolfhunter, I understand from these discussions that slowing to a hover is not the thing to do either, because it is very difficult to hover in manual flight without a horizon...true?

[Wolfhunter]

You can maintain a hover with pretty minimal references under good light conditions, a single tree will do nicely. In fact, a slow hover taxi to a safe landing spot or to better conditions behind you can save the day. Hovering over a ship at night is a whole different thing.... bless the c130 crew that packs extra LUUs and provides that much needed horizon. I should say though, I haven't followed this particular accident much at all.

Much worse is the high and slow option IMO. When visibility below is better than visibility ahead there is a significant danger of disorientation, inadvertently entering a (higher than intended) rate of decent at low forward speed can lead to vortex ring state…. a condition where the helicopter is descending in its own turbulent downwash. The application of more torque only serves to aggravate the condition. Rates of descent can build to frightening proportions very quickly. The only recovery is to lower the nose, increase speed and fly out of the disturbed air. Speed builds quickly during the recovery as well (after the nose is lowered). Taken together, (the high rate of descent and rapidly increasing speed) can clearly become problematic pretty quickly.

 Here is a video of what that looks like. Note the low speed and how quickly the rate of descent increases. Attempting to recover with torque (more power) can easily get you above 3000 FPM. The initial report I saw (which may well be wrong, it was in the paper) suggested high speed and high rate of descent at impact. Helicopters don't like "high and hot" either, it makes everything bad worse and everything good less good. As always though, the possibilities are myriad. 

 

[Wolfhunter]

This gives an idea of what murking looks like at hover taxi speed.

Speed is definitely not your friend here. 

 

[boestar]

21 hours ago, Schooner69 said:

Boestar:

When wandering around in restricted visibility and ceiling, "low and slow is the way to go".    When you're working in visibilities of 1/2 mile or less, speed is not your friend.  BTDT...

 

in a helicopter "Low and Slow:" will KILL YOU.