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Tango Foxtrot

1987 ? 1988 ?

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C.P. air also purchased a few 737-300s ?

They are not really comparable to the A320. 

 C.P. got rid of the 300s very quickly. Then picked up 320s.

 I wonder what would have happened if A.C. had chosen the Boeing? 

 Are there many of the original 320s left?

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Most of them are, five are in storage, 214 was written off at YHZ. A handful left the fleet around 2006/2007 as leases ended.

The early purchasers of the A320 probably got the best bang for their buck in history. Delta's last 737-300 was retired in 2006, meanwhile like Air Canada their oldest A320s will be turning thirty this year.

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The 737 has been a patchwork in progress since the -300 came along.  Systems integration was just a pipe dream.  and as was proven, a more efficient engine became too complex a situation to do properly.

The 737 fleet should come to an end.

Steam and electronics do not mix well.

 

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6 hours ago, Tango Foxtrot said:

C.P. air also purchased a few 737-300s ?

CPA leased one and it may have come over to CP 

CP had 3 and they were leased and were only in CP for about 6 months and then they went to, if I can remember correctly..Monarch Airlines.

I think they were" west coast"  based and I know we never had any training on them, at least not in YYZ....

Maybe some ex CP admin would know but I never heard anything about going after more 737s vs Airbus 320s

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5 hours ago, Super 80 said:

Most of them are, five are in storage, 214 was written off at YHZ. A handful left the fleet around 2006/2007 as leases ended.

The early purchasers of the A320 probably got the best bang for their buck in history. Delta's last 737-300 was retired in 2006, meanwhile like Air Canada their oldest A320s will be turning thirty this year.

Boeing's been's about price for a long time now. The 737-300 was probably cheap as is the current 737 vs the 'Bus and had the MD series to compete with too for pricing. I'm sure the A320 was expensive and it took bribe money to get AC to buy them.

The A320 is definitely getting to be an old design too now. The NEO should probably be close to its last version too as I wouldn't think there will be another version of 737 coming out as a competitor. Drone technology might delay the need for a new 320 size model until they figure out what the general direction for commercial aviation is going forward is but Airbus doesn't have anything else on the go design wise right now vs Beoing with the 777-9 and the NMA project.

The A220 will remove the need for a 319 or 318 which has been ordered in a very long time now or never really ordered at all.

 

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10 hours ago, Tango Foxtrot said:

Was anybody here involved in the original purchase of the A320 series by Air Canada? 

I don’t think Brian Mulroney reads this board... 🤣

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2 hours ago, conehead said:

I don’t think Brian Mulroney reads this board... 🤣

What about Herr Schreiber?

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3 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

CPA leased one and it may have come over to CP 

CP had 3 and they were leased and were only in CP for about 6 months and then they went to, if I can remember correctly..Monarch Airlines.

I think they were" west coast"  based and I know we never had any training on them, at least not in YYZ....

Maybe some ex CP admin would know but I never heard anything about going after more 737s vs Airbus 320s

The 737-300s for CPA were for Attache, the full airplane J class option for YYZ to YUL/YWG/YHZ/YVR. The route was an attempt to get 737 service onto YYZ-YVR. That's where the A320 really showed its capabilities. 

When AC introduced the A320; cabin configuration was 100Y/32J and could do YYZ-YVR all day everyday if needed. 

When PWA bought up CPA, one of the first things was to cancel the 737-300s and get as many A320s as possible (which was like 14 at the time). It was a great strategy, too bad Eyton decided to buyout Max instead of purchasing another 10 A320s.  

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3 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

Ah  yes......but the "steam" was more fun to fly..IMO💖

That was when you HAD  to "FLY" them and not the other way round, seat of the pants and brain calculations lol!🙊

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Re CP and the A320s, we went down to MSP to see how NorthWest was doing with it's A320s.  They had chosen to belly load and we saw quite a bit of damage to the liners in the holds. One reason CP went with the A320s was that they could handle ULDs and the 737s could not. It was envisioned that the ULDs would allow for faster turnaround and thus improve fleet utilization. (or so memory serves 😀  )

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4 hours ago, Bobcaygeon said:

Boeing's been's about price for a long time now. The 737-300 was probably cheap as is the current 737 vs the 'Bus and had the MD series to compete with too for pricing. I'm sure the A320 was expensive and it took bribe money to get AC to buy them.

I'm more referring to the A320's longevity, it seems unlikely that Air Canada (or any first tier airline) would still be flying the 737-300 today.

Edited by Super 80
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13 hours ago, Super 80 said:

Delta's last 737-300 was retired in 2006, meanwhile like Air Canada their oldest A320s will be turning thirty this year.

I remember the naysayers complaining that the Air Canada 320's were "too light" and could not withstand the use like a 737 would.

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8 hours ago, Bobcaygeon said:

the A320 was expensive and it took bribe money to get AC to buy them.

Not really true.

The people that did the aircraft evaluation wanted the Airbus.

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23 minutes ago, Fido said:

I remember the naysayers complaining that the Air Canada 320's were "too light" and could not withstand the use like a 737 would.

When I worked at CAIL there were quite a few people that referred to them as "The Hyundai of the sky"

How wrong they were.

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I would put money on Delta's oldest A320s setting some records, especially since the MD-90's (or at least their engines) have worn out their welcome.

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7 hours ago, J.O. said:

What about Herr Schreiber?

I think Karl-Heinz just finished serving his house arrest sentence.

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At the beginning of 1990 there were only 74 A320s in the world. New technology from an unproven manufacturer. 

 Air Canada took a big gamble and won huge.

 Looks like Boeing took the safe route,  and handed the world to Air Bus on a silver platter. 

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I remember talking to mtc in WG where they did the heavy checks.  The initial thoughts were the A320 was 'disposable' as it was built too lightly.  When they started doing the H checks, they found less cracking, less corrosion and a much better designed and built airplane.  While they have had their issues, they are nothing compared to the lipstick on the pig we are seeing with the '37.

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15 hours ago, Maverick said:

When I worked at CAIL there were quite a few people that referred to them as "The Hyundai of the sky"

How wrong they were.

turns out They were correct.  Hyundai has the best overall reliability of almost any brand.  Calling it a hyundai was a compliment.  Although at the time it wasn't seen that way with so many Pomy's dissolving before your eyes

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45 minutes ago, boestar said:

 Calling it a hyundai was a compliment.  

I have 2.  Excellent vehicles. 😊

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Recent engine oiling problems in some Hyundai and Kia models have knocked their reliability stats down a few pegs. Our Optima was in the shop for three months waiting for a new one.

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23 hours ago, Fido said:

Not really true.

The people that did the aircraft evaluation wanted the Airbus.

Depends who you mean by which people doing the evaluation. Every RCAF pilot wants the F35 but they don't have to pay for it.

Lots at AC wanted the 320NEO but they bought the Boeing. Lots of factors at play with money being the big one. 

 

Pilots and commercial all wanted the Sonic cruiser but accounting said no way....... and it never was built.

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