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BA pilots strike....

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Brave strategy considering people do have other options in 2019. How far behind on pay scales are BA pilots compared to other legacy airlines?

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Wow! You mean there is a place where pilots are actually allowed to legally strike?

Canada used to be like that until the Harper government set the precedent that somehow airline pilots were exempt from the rights of other unionized labour provided for by the Canada Labour Code.

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2 hours ago, rudder said:

Wow! You mean there is a place where pilots are actually allowed to legally strike?

Canada used to be like that until the Harper government set the precedent that somehow airline pilots were exempt from the rights of other unionized labour provided for by the Canada Labour Code.

History says otherwise:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/faq-back-to-work-legislation-1.1000525

On Aug. 29, Prime Minister Louis Saint-Laurent introduced Bill-1, the Maintenance of Railway Operation Act. It ordered an end to the strike and imposed a process for settling the dispute between the workers and the rail companies.

The legislation passed second and third reading, was approved by the Senate and given royal assent the next day. Within days, the railway workers were back on the job.

How often is it used?

Since 1950, the federal government has passed back-to-work legislation 33 times, usually to end strikes by railway workers, grain handlers and port workers. It has used back-to-work legislation to end several postal strikes, as well as a 1977 strike by air traffic controllers.

The last time the federal government successfully used the tool was in June 2011, when the House of Commons passed a bill forcing 48,000 Canada Post employees back to work. The legislation, which passed by a vote of 158-113, imposed a four-year contract and certain wage increases on the workers, and went into effect 24 hours later.

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Thanks for including the real facts in the story. JT doesn't need back to work legislation, he knows the Aga Khan and daddy's trust fund has done well during the early stages of the legalized weed craze...

He needs to thank the NDP for still filming a Cheech and Chong sequel as they still are inhaling instead of prepping for an election. What a joke of a group this time around

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1 hour ago, Marshall said:

History says otherwise:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/faq-back-to-work-legislation-1.1000525

On Aug. 29, Prime Minister Louis Saint-Laurent introduced Bill-1, the Maintenance of Railway Operation Act. It ordered an end to the strike and imposed a process for settling the dispute between the workers and the rail companies.

The legislation passed second and third reading, was approved by the Senate and given royal assent the next day. Within days, the railway workers were back on the job.

How often is it used?

Since 1950, the federal government has passed back-to-work legislation 33 times, usually to end strikes by railway workers, grain handlers and port workers. It has used back-to-work legislation to end several postal strikes, as well as a 1977 strike by air traffic controllers.

The last time the federal government successfully used the tool was in June 2011, when the House of Commons passed a bill forcing 48,000 Canada Post employees back to work. The legislation, which passed by a vote of 158-113, imposed a four-year contract and certain wage increases on the workers, and went into effect 24 hours later.

Air Canada sales employees haven't forgotten 2011 when Harper used it to benefit Milton.   They also used it against the pilots  in 2012.  It was also threatened against the IAM but a deal was reached before it passed. 

And on top of it, there was a walkout because Lisa the Rat got slow clapped walking through the terminal and she demanded the employees get fired.

Just another reason if you're an AC employee to not vote conservative.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/air-canada-pilots-challenge-back-to-work-law-1.1131292

Air Canada pilots challenge back-to-work law

Law breaches charter rights, pilots say

Laura Payton · CBC News · Posted: Mar 20, 2012 1:05 PM ET | Last Updated: March 20, 2012
 
li-air-canada-620-02313030.jpg
Air Canada union workers protest outside government offices in Ottawa on March 14. The union representing the pilots is challenging federal back-to-work legislation passed last week. (Adrian Wyld/Canadian Press)

Air Canada pilots are challenging the federal government's back-to-work legislation, asking Ontario's Superior Court to rule that the law breaches their charter rights.

A court filing by the pilots union says the legislation, which forces them to fly, conflicts with their legal obligations under the Canadian Aviation Regulations. The regulations prohibit pilots from flying if they have any reason to believe they are unfit to properly perform their duties.

 

"A right to strike is a necessary incident for employees to meaningfully exercise their freedom to associate in the workplace including their right to collective bargaining," the pilots' application said.

"The right to strike may only be restricted in the case of essential services where a work stoppage endangers the life, personal safety or health of the population. The right to strike is also an essential means by which employees convey information and raise awareness of the various issues in dispute between the parties. The impugned provisions limit both the liberty and 'security of the person' of pilots in a manner inconsistent with the principles of fundamental justice."

Labour Minister Lisa Raitt introduced the legislation March 12. It passed through the House of Commons and Senate and became law on March 14.

Raitt also referred the matter to the Canadian Industrial Relations Board, asking it to evaluate what a work stoppage would mean to Canadians' health and safety. Referring an issue to the CIRB bars the union and the airline from any work stoppage while the board investigates.

The pilots' application to the court says union members "have been under a significant amount of stress" due to the dispute and "Parliament’s removal of their only means of engaging in meaningful collective bargaining." But the back-to-work legislation means they can be prosecuted for refusing work if they feel unfit, the application says.

Raitt said Tuesday in Sudbury, Ont., that both parties can continue bargaining as they wait for an arbitrator to be assigned to conduct final offer selection, under which the sides submit offers and the arbitrator chooses between the two. She said the pilots were in talks for 18 months and had an agreement the union's members wouldn't ratify.

"The problem is at some point, and it would be this point, the Canadian public interest does come into play," Raitt said.

"I understand what is being said with respect to collective bargaining rights, and I understand that there's going to be challenges to it. And that's all appropriate, and that's going to happen. But as far as we're concerned, Air Canada is flying, there are no work stoppages, and the Canadian public interest has been satisfied."

Public servants advised against legislation

The government also used back-to-work legislation during Air Canada's contract dispute with customer service and sales staff last June. 

A secret report obtained by The Canadian Press under federal Access to Information laws shows an appeal last summer from federal bureaucrats to use back-to-work legislation only as a last resort appears to have fallen on deaf ears.

The Department of Human Resources and Skills Development advised the governing Conservatives to use the powerful legal measure sparingly after the airline's customer-service and sales staff walked out last June.

In it, senior officials urged the Tories to save the back-to-work law for emergencies.

The bureaucrats were not convinced the walkout by customer-service agents constituted anything more than a nuisance to air travellers.

The Conservatives threatened back-to-work legislation to end labour unrest between Air Canada and unions representing customer-service agents and flight attendants.

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Really?? According to a recent analysis of annual incomes in Canada, $230,000 puts a wage earner in the top 1%....less in some Provinces.

What percentage of AC pilots using seniority to fly max lift...say with 15 years....are earning that amount?

 

The BA pilots were offered more than 11% on a three year contract. The AVERAGE BA pilot earns approx 187,000 pounds per year currently. They're striking because they want a share of profits.

 

Police officers and firefighters can't strike. They have to rely on arbitration....and we, the taxpayers, bear the consequences of those consistently very generous arbitration awards.

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11 minutes ago, UpperDeck said:

Really?? According to a recent analysis of annual incomes in Canada, $230,000 puts a wage earner in the top 1%....less in some Provinces.

What percentage of AC pilots using seniority to fly max lift...say with 15 years....are earning that amount?

Police officers and firefighters can't strike. They have to rely on arbitration....and we, the taxpayers, bear the consequences of those consistently very generous arbitration awards.

I would bet at the top of their salary range  (police and firefighters) they do not come close to the average senior pilot but they face death daily as part of their normal work. Not saying that senior pilots are overpaid but def. stating that our police and firefighters are not!

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9 hours ago, UpperDeck said:

The BA pilots were offered more than 11% on a three year contract. The AVERAGE BA pilot earns approx 187,000 pounds per year currently. They're striking because they want a share of profits.

Do other employee groups at BA currently receive some kind of profit share bonus?

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On 9/9/2019 at 10:37 AM, rudder said:

Wow! You mean there is a place where pilots are actually allowed to legally strike?

Canada used to be like that until the Harper government set the precedent that somehow airline pilots were exempt from the rights of other unionized labour provided for by the Canada Labour Code.

It’s not only the Harper government as you can see below from a news clip. It happened in the present Trudeau Liberal government as well, when the federal minister of labour forced the parties into mediation and eventually arbitration  when ALPA threatened a strike and WestJet responded with a Lockout threat.

The minister of Labour then flew into Calgary for an emergency meeting and forced the issue.  The only difference is that it was forced by the minister and didn’t require any legislation but the unhappy results for the pilot group was the same, with no final vote on the matter because it was concluded through arbitration.

 

calgaryherald.com   May 25, 2018

“The threat of a strike by WestJet pilots appears to be over.

The Calgary-based airline and the union that represents the pilots said Friday they have agreed to a settlement process that will involve a federal mediator.

“We are grateful for the role played by the government, both with their mediation services and with the offer of support with arbitration and intervention of the minister of Labour,” said WestJet president and CEO Ed Sims.

The agreement means neither WestJet or the Air Line Pilots Association can walk away from negotiations. Sims said he’s confident a settlement will be reached by the end of June.

”The immediate stages of the process are that we continue to sit around the negotiating table as we have done for many months now. The negotiating will conclude with what is called a binding arbitration. So, an arbitrator will determine the values of each case and will reach agreements,” said Sims.”

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Some are too partisan to remember that much more interference and far worse damage has been done by Liberal regimes, including causing the bankruptcy of Canada 3000 and killing a democratic process for Toronto City airport expansion which is sorely needed in Canada's largest city.

As for Air Canada strikes, this is yet another indication that multiple strong airlines in Canada are a necessity so that Air Canada staff can go on strike all they want without being forced back to work.

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On 9/9/2019 at 9:36 PM, Marshall said:

they face death daily as part of their normal work

 

Not even close.... 

You've listened to too much propaganda from the "First responders are super heros" from the past 20 years...

A police officer needs high school education, and attend a 13 week basic constable course.

As to their pay, yes I think they are overpaid, certainly in Ontario....successive governments have signed ridiculous deals with police unions so that they constantly leapfrog each other's salaries and drive policing costs to outlandish levels.

******************************************************************

The 20 occupations with the highest average (traumatic injury) fatality rates, 2011-2015

fatalities-occupation-rate-v3.png

 

 

Fatalities by occupation, excluding long-term illnesses, 2011-2015

Note: Excludes fatalities that were “Not coded” by occupation.

Note: Excludes fatalities that were “Not coded” by occupation.

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14 hours ago, anonymous said:

 

Not even close.... 

You've listened to too much propaganda from the "First responders are super heros" from the past 20 years...

A police officer needs high school education, and attend a 13 week basic constable course.

As to their pay, yes I think they are overpaid, certainly in Ontario....successive governments have signed ridiculous deals with police unions so that they constantly leapfrog each other's salaries and drive policing costs to outlandish levels.

******************************************************************

I guess it is all about your POV, the numbers you show for pilots are not for those who are commercial pilots working for major airlines. I was a Volunteer Constable (Delta Police uniformed)  back in the day (while working full time at an airline) in 1974  when this happened:

Quote

Elery Long, Delta police officer's killer, granted full parole

A man who has spent most of the last three decades in prison for murdering a Delta, B.C., police officer in 1974 has been granted full parole.

Long shot and killed S/Sgt Ron McKay in 1974

CBC News · Posted: Mar 26, 2015 6:28 AM PT | Last Updated: October 25, 2018
 
69-year-old Elery Long has been granted full parole after spending most of the last three decades behind bars for murdering a Delta police officer. (Fred Thornhill/Reuters)

A man, who has spent most of the last four decades in prison for murdering a Delta police officer in 1974 has been granted full parole.

It's the second time 69-year-old Elery Long has been paroled.

Long killed S/Sgt. Ron McKay in 1974, claiming the sawed-off shotgun he was carrying accidentally went off when he put the weapon to the officer's chest.

When Canada abolished the death penalty, Long's sentence was commuted to life in prison.

Parole Board documents show in the 15 years since he was first released, Long has abused drugs and alcohol, misspent a student loan, stalked a woman, and lied to his parole officers.

However, the board has now ruled that Long's sustained sobriety, lack of violence and success while on day parole has made him eligible to live in an undisclosed community on Vancouver Island.

He must abide by several conditions, including staying away from illegal drugs or alcohol

and more recently, not personally involved but this underscores the risks associated with being a Firefighter

Calgary Fire Department honours 6 fallen firefighters during annual ceremony

Rain fell on a crowd of several hundred people at Calgary City Hall Tuesday as the Calgary Fire Department's pipe band played during an annual memorial service. As part of the memorial, six names were added to the list of the department's fallen firefighters this year, which now numbers 53.

Fifty-three firefighters' names are now displayed on the memorial

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-fire-department-memorial-ceremony-mike-henson-1.5278618?cmp=rss

 

 

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image.png.61c585f30acd2550c9d1c2353d036a66.png

On this day... 18 years ago 246 people went to sleep in preparation for their morning flights. 2,606 people went to sleep in preparation for work in the morning. 343 firefighters went to sleep in preparation for their morning shift. 60 police officers went to sleep in preparation for morning patrol. 8 paramedics went to sleep in preparation for the morning shift. None of them saw past 10:00am Sept 11, 2001. In one single moment life may never be the same. As you live and enjoy the breaths you take today and tonight before you go to sleep in preparation for your life tomorrow, kiss the ones you love, snuggle a little tighter, and never take one second of your life for granted.

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Pilots who went on strike have apparently lost their travel privileges. That’s going to make commuting difficult. 

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On 9/9/2019 at 9:36 PM, Marshall said:

I would bet at the top of their salary range  (police and firefighters) they do not come close to the average senior pilot but they face death daily as part of their normal work. Not saying that senior pilots are overpaid but def. stating that our police and firefighters are not!

Marshall.....

I beg to disagree but only in a general sense. Some police officers and some firefighters....depending on their place of work....face inordinate danger. That is NOT true of all. You might take as an example a municipality in Ontario without a gunshot in over 10 years or one with no building loss due to fire in the same period.

However, in  Ontario, what the arbitrator awards for Oshawa for police and firefighters is what the taxpayers will pay in Podunk.

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On 9/13/2019 at 9:12 AM, AAS said:

Pilots who went on strike have apparently lost their travel privileges. That’s going to make commuting difficult. 

A friend who is a BA pilot living in Canada told me that their personal travel privileges have been revoked even though that’s contrary to their contract, but they can still commute to work as always. I’ve heard rumours the CEO is on his way out after making a mess of contract talks. Not to mention he took a 50% pay raise last year while trying to convince the public that 11.5% over three years is sufficient & appropriate for the minions. He looks like a buffoon trying to explain that in media interviews. 

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