737 Max Updates and Cancellations

[Kasey]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/07/business/first-boeing-737-max-flight-gol-airlines/index.html

 

First up........... Next?

Just crunching some numbers, 280,000 + dead in the US ( from Covid alone) equates to 2.6+ 400 seat aircraft per day crashing with no (Zero) survivors for the last 8+ months.

RIP all.

 

[boestar]

Just waiting for it... 

If one of these things crashes for ANY reason, Say goodbye to Boeing.

 

[Don Hudson]

From AW&ST:

 

Quote

 

How Long Will Flight Crew Training Take For Boeing 737 MAX’s Return?

Guy Norris Sean Broderick December 04, 2020

 

Ask the Editors: The Aviation Week Network invites our readers to submit questions to our editors and analysts. We’ll answer them, and if we can’t we’ll reach out to our wide network of experts for advice.

Now that the FAA has given its approval, how long will it take to train flight crews and get the Boeing 737 MAX back into service? 

Aviation Week’s Senior Propulsion Editor, Guy Norris, teamed up with Air Transport and Safety Editor Sean Broderick to answer this question: 

From a flight crew training perspective the procedural and system software changes will require an additional 1-2 hr. of classroom or, more likely, computer-based training plus a simulator session. Operators and regulators working with Boeing indicate that it will require around 2 hr. of simulator time to complete the required additional training per flight crew, plus an hour of presession briefings. More details on the new baseline training requirements can be found here. The total time to train a given airline’s 737 MAX pilots will vary based on several factors, including the number of pilots that must undergo the sessions and availability of MAX simulators.

To return aircraft to service, operators have been advised to initially expect around 300 hr. to depreserve each of the 385 delivered aircraft that were in long-term storage, and up to 400 additional hours to complete modifications to software and wiring that will make them compliant with updated certification standards and airworthiness directives. Operators such as American Airlines report the new Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System or MCAS software takes around 6 hr. to update as part of this overall period, while the wiring modifications took American about three days per airframe.

For approximately 450 aircraft that were completed but never delivered, Boeing estimates a flow time of around 16 days from starting depreservation to delivery. The first 10 days of the process will cover bringing the aircraft out of storage, while the final six days will be dedicated to preparations for delivery.

Breaking this down further, Boeing is expected to use the first three days to reactivate systems and depreserve the engines. The midperiod, from around Day 4 to 10, will cover functional tests and software updates, and culminate in a post-storage check flight. The remaining time will be allotted to delivery, with reviews and walk-throughs by the customer airline as well as certification by regulatory authorities.

 

 

[Guest]

Off and running....  Boeing 737 Max: Brazilian airline resumes passenger flights - BBC News

Boeing 737 Max: Brazilian airline resumes passenger flights

Published

2 hours ago

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IMAGE COPYRIGHTREUTERS

image captionBoeing 737 Max aircraft were grounded in March 2019

Brazil's Gol has become the first airline to resume commercial flights with the Boeing 737 Max.

The plane had been grounded worldwide since March 2019 following two deadly crashes which killed 346 people.

But following an overhaul, the first passenger flight took off from Gol's hub in São Paulo on a flight to the city of Porto Alegre.

Gol had earlier said that 140 of its pilots had undergone training on the overhauled plane in the US.

So far, only the US and Brazil have recertified the jet.

Gol, the biggest domestic airline in Brazil, has seven Boeing 737 Max planes which it plans to use on 27 commercial domestic flights.

[ILB]

On 12/7/2020 at 8:27 PM, Kasey said:

Just crunching some numbers, 280,000 + dead in the US ( from Covid alone) equates to 2.6+ 400 seat aircraft per day crashing with no (Zero) survivors for the last 8+ months.

Imagine flying an airplane where the average age of your passengers is 82, with 70% of those 82-year-old passengers having 3 or more comorbidities?

[J.O.]

Imagine putting passengers on airplanes with crew who have to work three part time minimum wage jobs to feed their families. They get minimal training in safety protocols, have no understanding of their right to refuse unsafe working conditions and have no sick day benefits, but somehow, they're supposed to magically show up for work and expose the passenger to zero risk.

Edited December 9, 2020 by J.O.

[North of You]

21 hours ago, J.O. said:

Imagine putting passengers on airplanes with crew who have to work three part time minimum wage jobs to feed their families. They get minimal training in safety protocols, have no understanding of their right to refuse unsafe working conditions and have no sick day benefits, but somehow, they're supposed to magically show up for work and expose the passenger to zero risk.

Sorry if I missed where this is stated about the part time work, and minimal training?

 

As for around here, there is a computer learning module that must be completed, and then it’s a day of sim training.  I believe this is more than enough given how much is already known about the issue.  I for one am very happy to get back to the Max as it is (my opinion) a much more pleasant plane to spend time in vs the Ng. 
 

Just my 1.5 cents. 

[J.O.]

It was a comparative analogy in response to the notion that most of those dying are elderly - suggesting that the restrictions being implemented are an over-reach because they're going to die anyways.

What I meant is that it's naive to suggest that we can lockdown care homes and no other restrictions are necessary. Health care workers have families with kids in school and they have to shop for food like the rest of us. The primary reason why there's been so much spread in care homes is because of staff members being exposed outside of the workplace.

Edited December 10, 2020 by J.O.

[dagger]

The feds are going to green-light the changes to the Max tomorrow (Thursday) and allow Canadian airlines to resume flying it.

[boestar]

8 hours ago, dagger said:

The feds are going to green-light the changes to the Max tomorrow (Thursday) and allow Canadian airlines to resume flying it.

flying it where exactly?  not really short on airframes at the moment

[Maverick]

5 hours ago, boestar said:

flying it where exactly?  not really short on airframes at the moment

Tainted or not the Max is still 10% or better on fuel than the NG or the 320 CEO. They will all be flying.

[deicer]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/boeing-faa-senate/2020/12/18/b1ce57b6-414d-11eb-8db8-395dedaaa036_story.html

Boeing ‘inappropriately coached’ test pilots during review of 737 Max after crashes, Senate investigators say

Dec. 18, 2020 at 6:53 p.m. EST

Senate investigators concluded that Boeing “inappropriately coached” government pilots for a simulator test that was part of the Federal Aviation Administration’s efforts to ensure that the company’s 737 Max could be made safe to fly again after two deadly crashes.

 

The conclusion is contained in a report issued Friday by the Senate Commerce Committee on an investigation that was launched after the Max crashes but that ultimately broadened to unearth numerous safety problems across the FAA.

The July 2019 simulator test was designed to determine whether pilots could quickly react to faulty software implicated in the two crashes, which killed 346 people. A whistleblower alleged that Boeing officials prompted test pilots to be ready to use the correct controls to respond, telling them, “Remember, get right on that pickle switch.”

Even with that prompt, one of the pilots took four times longer to respond than Boeing and the FAA had assumed.

A Transportation Department lawyer prohibited an FAA employee, whom investigators understood to be one of the pilots, from answering questions about the incident in an interview, according to the report.

“The Committee concludes FAA and Boeing officials involved in the conduct of this test had established a predetermined outcome” to reaffirm their assumptions about pilot reactions, the investigators wrote.

The incident suggests that problems arising from the close relationship between Boeing and the FAA, which other investigators have said affected the initial safety certification of the Max, also affected at least the early stage of efforts to reauthorize the jets to fly.

 

“We have learned many hard lessons from the Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Flight 302 accidents, and we will never forget the lives lost on board,” Boeing said in a statement. “The events and lessons learned have reshaped our company and further focused our attention on our core values of safety, quality, and integrity.”

In a statement, the FAA said that it was reviewing the committee’s report and that it thoroughly reviewed the Max after the crashes.

“We are confident that the safety issues that played a role in the tragic accidents involving Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 have been addressed through the design changes required and independently approved by the FAA and its partners,” the agency said.

The 100-page report, which relies on thousands of documents and allegations from 57 whistleblowers, outlines problems with the FAA’s oversight of the aviation industry. Investigators concluded that whistleblowers regularly face retaliation and that private companies seek help from agency managers when inspectors seek to enforce safety rules. The report says “systemic deficiencies” at the FAA pose an “unnecessary risk to the flying public.”

 

Sen. Roger Wicker (R-Miss.), the committee’s chairman, said the investigation’s findings were troubling. “The report details a number of significant examples of lapses in aviation safety oversight and failed leadership in the FAA,” Wicker said in a statement.

Wicker and Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.), the panel’s top Democrat, have proposed legislation to give the FAA greater independence from the industry and to strengthen whistleblower protections. The House passed a similar bill in November.

The FAA said it gave the committee unprecedented access to conduct its investigation and that it was committed to following laws that prohibit retaliation against whistleblowers.

 

The Senate committee’s report comes a month after the FAA lifted its ban on the jetliner, which had been grounded for 20 months.

The two crashes, in Indonesia and Ethiopia, occurred five months apart and brought intense scrutiny to one of the United States’ most storied companies, Boeing, and the FAA.

Multiple investigations found issues with the process that the FAA followed for certifying that the newest version of Boeing’s 737 was safe, while raising questions about whether the agency was too deferential to the manufacturer.

In signing the order that allowed the jets to resume service, FAA Administrator Steve Dickson said the global aviation community could be certain that the 737 Max was safe to fly. “We have not left anything to chance here,” he said. “I would put my own family on it, and we will fly on it.”

 

American Airlines will be the first U.S. carrier to resume 737 Max service. The airline will offer one daily round trip between Miami International and New York’s LaGuardia airports beginning Dec. 29, then will expand the number of Maxes in operation next year.

Senate investigators said the FAA and the Transportation Department were reluctant to take part in the committee’s review, delaying the release of documents to the committee and failing to make employees available for interviews.

“The level of cooperation by the FAA and DOT has been unacceptable and at times has bordered on obstructive,” investigators wrote.

While a similarly scathing report by the House Transportation Committee was more focused on problems with the initial design and approval of the Max, the Senate panel’s review was sweeping. It encompassed allegations about Southwest Airlines, cargo carrier Atlas Air, the training of FAA inspectors and the safety of small operators in Hawaii.

 

The report identified ongoing concerns with the FAA’s oversight of Southwest, saying agency leaders repeatedly failed to act when safety issues were raised.

The report cited an instance in October 2019 when the director of the agency’s office of audit and evaluation recommended that 49 planes Southwest purchased from foreign carriers be grounded until they could be properly inspected.

Dickson refused, giving the airline months to complete work to fix the problems, according to the report.

In a statement, Southwest said it has worked to improve its practices and oversight, adding, “The success of our business depends, in and of itself, on safety, and while we work to improve each and every day, we do not tolerate any relaxing of standards that govern ultimate safety across our operation.”

 

Whistleblowers who contacted the committee also provided examples of communications between FAA managers and those at companies they are charged with overseeing. The communications, according to the report, “clearly supported the perception of ‘coziness.’ ”

Former FAA senior managers who now work in the private sector continue to deal directly with former supervisors and subordinates in their new jobs. A senior manager who retired from the government in 2016 serves as senior director of regulatory compliance and director of maintenance at Southwest Airlines, according to the report.

And a senior official at the airline told investigators that the company traded on its relationship with one of the FAA’s top officials to get “favorable treatment” from a local agency office.

The agency said the official always acted properly.

 

[moeman]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/boeing-faa-senate/2020/12/18/b1ce57b6-414d-11eb-8db8-395dedaaa036_story.html

[Canoehead]

I'm genuinely curious on how they conduct these sim exercises. Having test pilots or FAA inspectors doing the flying isn't a proper assessment in my view.  It's like having a biased jury in a local trial because they have been immersed in the news.

They should be doing a "change of venue".  Line pilots who don't spend any more time in simulators than legally required.  Pick a range of crews from high performing to low performing (based on training records) and give them a very basic briefing (the "dumbed down version").  That's where they should be setting the benchmark.  

A pilot took 4 times longer than expected eh?  Well guess what... in the airplane on a dark and ugly night over the water on departure some time in 2 or 3 years from now is when its going to come up, and I'm certain that it will be unexpected.

So a couple of test pilots or FAA inspectors bolted firmly to the sim bay floor after days and months and now years of working on this doesn't scratch the sniff test with me.

As for the other points of the article about Boeing's coziness with the regulator, old news and nothing seems to change.

[Guest]

Link to US Senate report 101page document.

FFDA35FA-0442-465D-AC63-5634D9D3CEF6 (senate.gov)

[GTFA]

It's like building a boat that will only stay upright if the "auto-stabilizing" system is active. Maybe Boeing should just build a better aircraft.

[Kasey]

9 hours ago, GTFA said:

It's like building a boat that will only stay upright if the "auto-stabilizing" system is active. Maybe Boeing should just build a better aircraft.

Or a boat 

[Specs]

16 hours ago, Kasey said:

Or a boat 

They did.  Pretty sweet. 
https://www.yachtcharterfleet.com/luxury-charter-yacht-46445/taconite.htm

 

[rudder]

AS never met a 737 it didn’t like. And I’ll bet they got a sweetheart deal from Boeing.

Mike R - Call Brad T...... 11 lightly used 320-214’s (sharklet) and 10 321NEO’s looking for a good home soon. Might look nice in Rouge/Transat paint. 

AC was never seriously interested in the MAX9 at Rouge (or mainline) so more 321NEO’s would be a good fit.

Availability timeline might line up with demand recovery 2023 and beyond.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/alaska-airlines-announces-restructured-agreement-with-boeing-to-acquire-a-total-of-68-737-9-max-aircraft-with-options-for-another-52-301197543.html

[conehead]

21 hours ago, Specs said:

They did.  Pretty sweet. 
https://www.yachtcharterfleet.com/luxury-charter-yacht-46445/taconite.htm

 

Airbus built a boat as well...

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/stories/airbus-american-magic-2021-americas-cup.html?cid=social__company__eu-en__co__facebook__American Magic and Airbus partnership__TF__-&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=company__eu-en__co__American Magic and Airbus partnership__TF&utm_content=__&fbclid=IwAR3I-5xnjRPjBFeQGOX6zf6Kl-2gdFXLAMcfnW0nYPaG9wdZUtvmrLL1_Rw

[Specs]

True - I forgot about those.  These newer boats are scary fast. 

I prefer the comfort of the Yacht though. 
 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Specs

[Guest]

Slow news day so the AC Max has made the headlines.   Air Canada Boeing 737-8 MAX suffers engine issue | CTV News

Air Canada Boeing 737-8 MAX suffers engine issue

ReutersStaff

Contact

Published Friday, December 25, 2020 1:36PM ESTLast Updated Friday, December 25, 2020 2:13PM EST

A lone passenger walks past the Air Canada check-in counter at Montreal-Trudeau International Airport in Montreal, on Wednesday, April 8, 2020. (THE CANADIAN PRESS/Paul Chiasson)

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An Air Canada Boeing Co 737-8 Max en route between Arizona and Montreal with three crew members on board suffered an engine issue that forced the crew to divert the aircraft to Tucson, Arizona, the Canadian airline company said in an emailed statement on Friday.

Shortly after the take-off, the pilots received an "engine indication" and "decided to shut down one engine," an Air Canada spokesman said.

"The aircraft then diverted to Tucson, where it landed normally and remains." The incident took place on Dec. 22.

The crew received a left engine hydraulic low pressure indication and declared a PAN PAN emergency before diverting the flight, Belgian aviation news website Aviation24.be reported.

In a response to a Reuters request for comment a Boeing spokeswoman referred to Air Canada for information on the incident and did not provide any additional comment.

The United States lifted a 20-month-old flight ban on the 737 MAX last month, with the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration outlining details of the software, system and training upgrades Boeing and airlines must complete before carrying passengers.

(Reporting by Aishwarya Nair in Bengaluru; Editing by Sandra Mal

[Maverick]

4 hours ago, Malcolm said:

Slow news day so the AC Max has made the headlines.   Air Canada Boeing 737-8 MAX suffers engine issue | CTV News

Air Canada Boeing 737-8 MAX suffers engine issue

ReutersStaff

Contact

Published Friday, December 25, 2020 1:36PM ESTLast Updated Friday, December 25, 2020 2:13PM EST

A lone passenger walks past the Air Canada check-in counter at Montreal-Trudeau International Airport in Montreal, on Wednesday, April 8, 2020. (THE CANADIAN PRESS/Paul Chiasson)

SHARE

 

An Air Canada Boeing Co 737-8 Max en route between Arizona and Montreal with three crew members on board suffered an engine issue that forced the crew to divert the aircraft to Tucson, Arizona, the Canadian airline company said in an emailed statement on Friday.

Shortly after the take-off, the pilots received an "engine indication" and "decided to shut down one engine," an Air Canada spokesman said.

"The aircraft then diverted to Tucson, where it landed normally and remains." The incident took place on Dec. 22.

The crew received a left engine hydraulic low pressure indication and declared a PAN PAN emergency before diverting the flight, Belgian aviation news website Aviation24.be reported.

In a response to a Reuters request for comment a Boeing spokeswoman referred to Air Canada for information on the incident and did not provide any additional comment.

The United States lifted a 20-month-old flight ban on the 737 MAX last month, with the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration outlining details of the software, system and training upgrades Boeing and airlines must complete before carrying passengers.

(Reporting by Aishwarya Nair in Bengaluru; Editing by Sandra Mal

Well, considering they left from Tucson (Marana actually but close enough) the problem obviously manifested itself pretty quickly. Most of them have been there since January this year and there are definitely storage challenges with being in that environment.

 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Maverick said:

Well, considering they left from Tucson (Marana actually but close enough) the problem obviously manifested itself pretty quickly. Most of them have been there since January this year and there are definitely storage challenges with being in that environment.

 

It will be interesting to see how many more storage problems arise but if the press reports on all, then the public acceptance of the return of the Max will wane. I image there is a comprehensive check list when an aircraft is returned to service that has been stored in high temps. before it is deemed to be be airworthy.  I wonder what was missed is this case or was it checked off on the ground run up and only became a problem when the aircraft was moving at full power on take off?  I imagine  one of the AMEs on this forum could comment

[MCPSPEED]