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Marshall

737 Max Updates and Cancellations

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I wonder if Boeing is now being conservative in its estimates or if the grounding will continue yet a while.

I suggest not watching the video as the interviewer is incredibly shouty and annoying.  The article includes the salient points.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/21/boeing-doesnt-expect-regulators-to-sign-off-on-737-max-until-june-or-july.html

Edited by FA@AC

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If the aircraft is not released to fly before june/july, when is the first date that commercial carriers will start flying the aircraft?  A large number (387) will  have been mothballed for over a year by that time and I wonder how easy it will be to return those to operation?

1. Load / install any mods to the aircraft and to the simulators (I imagine this can not be done until such time as the various licencing authorities have blessed the changes

2. Make the aircraft flight ready

3. Sim training for pilots (how long)

4. Refresher training for AMEs (is this required?)

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On 1/20/2020 at 1:57 PM, deicer said:

“We’ve asked Boeing to get rid of that word Max,” Udvar-Hazy said. “I think that word Max should go down in the history books as a bad name for an aircraft.”

Renaming the Max will help address public reluctance to fly on the plane

Awesome.  Help address public reluctance to fly on the airplane by hiding the fact that they're on the airplane they are trying to avoid.  Wow.  Can't see any problem with that! 

This is the most idiotic idea ever.  Can you imagine the fallout from the public learning, as they are sure to, that the company that deceived the FAA, all the 737 pilots and the entire world with the development/certification of the aircraft is now trying to hide the true identity of the aircraft by changing the name?

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and they’ll call it “re-branding” the aircraft.

Isn't that what Trump suggested some time ago?

If I recall it was something like, "Re-brand it and include some great new features"

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/trump-boeing-737-max-1274719

Not sure what "Great new features" could be though, but I'm sure he could come up with something.

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Just now, Innuendo said:

and they’ll call it “re-branding” the aircraft.

Isn't that what Trump suggested some time ago?

If I recall it was something like, "Re-brand it and include some great new features"

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/trump-boeing-737-max-1274719

Not sure what "Great new features" could be though, but I'm sure he could come up with something.

Free drinks, no charge for luggage and free food service.  There would be lots of bargain hunters that would purchase seats.

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2 hours ago, seeker said:

Awesome.  Help address public reluctance to fly on the airplane by hiding the fact that they're on the airplane they are trying to avoid.  Wow.  Can't see any problem with that! 

This is the most idiotic idea ever.  Can you imagine the fallout from the public learning, as they are sure to, that the company that deceived the FAA, all the 737 pilots and the entire world with the development/certification of the aircraft is now trying to hide the true identity of the aircraft by changing the name?

WJ has already removed the word "MAX" from their aircraft.

Was done very quietly and quite some time ago.

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Quote

Free drinks, no charge for luggage and free food service.  There would be lots of bargain hunters that would purchase seats.

 

I was thinking more of Casino, stand up bar, (sorry, Continental already did that on their DC-10s), dance floor, (didn't someone already do that in the upper deck of the 747), putting green,

ya know "great new features." 

Edited by Innuendo
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14 minutes ago, Marshall said:

Free drinks, no charge for luggage and free food service.  There would be lots of bargain hunters that would purchase seats.

That’s all it would take to fill those planes...

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16 minutes ago, AIP said:

WJ has already removed the word "MAX" from their aircraft.

AC no longer uses the word "MAX" in the FA manual.  It's now the 737-8, although the AC website still calls it the MAX 8 in the schedules that are loaded (and soon to be removed, I guess) for this summer.

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5 hours ago, Innuendo said:

dance floor, (didn't someone already do that in the upper deck of the 747)

I believe AC used to have a "piano bar" area upstairs and the FAs bid for the position where you'd dance with customers. Before my time, but that's what I heard.

 

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7 hours ago, moeman said:

I believe AC used to have a "piano bar" area upstairs and the FAs bid for the position where you'd dance with customers. Before my time, but that's what I heard.

 

CP had a bar setup for first class passengers on the upper deck of their 747 with a spiral staircase to move from the main deck .  

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I am placing this note here as well as the thread on the Turkish B738 crash at Amsterdam for those interested. TOC is listed below.

Sidney Dekker, Human Factors Specialist, who has spoken at Canadian flight safety conferences before, did a human factors examination on the Turkish B738 Amsterdam accident and the Dutch Safety Board has decided to publish this report. It can be found at https://www.barracuda.com/products/essentials

Don

SUMMARY
CONSIDERATIONS FOR A HUMAN FACTORS ANALYSIS
 A word on hindsight  
 The scope of this human factors analysis
 A word on time
A SEQUENCE OF EVENTS
TK1951: AN AUTOMATION SURPRISE
 TK1951 and research on automation surprises
AUTOMATION TRAINING AND BUGGY MENTAL MODELS
 Autothrottle in the airplane manuals
 Alerts and indications associated with RA failure  
 Comparison with other TRTO
 Experience on aircraft type and buggy mental models
SPEED, MODE MONITORING AND THE NOTICING OF A NON-EVENT
 How to see that something doesn’t happen
 Not noticing a mode change
 Automation surprises and representations of the future
 “Moving thrust levers” that didn’t move and other cues
 Workload and interleaving task demands  
 Speed tapes: How a cockpit knows its speed
CRM AND THE INTERVENTION DECISION
 The flight crew of TK1951  Training
 (CRM) at THY TK1951: A breakdown in CRM?
 Was TK1951 a rushed approach?
 Why not make a go-around?
Edited by Don Hudson
Insert Report table of contents

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United Airlines on Wednesday said it does not expect that it will be able to fly the Boeing 737 Max this summer after the manufacturer pushed back its timeline for the planes’ return to service.

The repeated delays mean airlines are set to go another summer — the peak travel season for U.S. carriers — without the fuel-efficient planes.

 

United had already pushed back when it expects the planes to return to service until early June, but United president Scott Kirby, who is taking over as CEO later this year, said on an earnings call that the airline is working on another schedule change.

This is breaking news. Check back for updates.  https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/22/united-airlines-doesnt-expect-to-fly-the-boeing-737-max-this-summer.html

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FWIW, (from CTV)

......Air Canada said Wednesday that scrubbing the Max from its schedule for the second time in three weeks was based on operational considerations and meant to provide customers with certainty around planning and booking travel.

Earlier this month the Montreal-based airline opted to push back the return of the aircraft until March 31, with the new re-entry date pegged at June 30.

WestJet announced Tuesday that it will remove the plane from its flight schedule until June 24.

"We thank our guests for their patience and our WestJetters for their commitment to keeping our airline moving safely and on time as we continue to adjust our schedule," said WestJet chief executive Ed Sims in a statement.

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why do they make it sound like the airlines fault?  They have no control over placing it back into service.

When the Regulators and Boeing drop the puck, you can bet it won't be long before they are in the air.

 

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Boeing wants to resume 737 Max production months before the planes return to service

PUBLISHED WED, JAN 22 20201:26 PM ESTUPDATED MOMENTS AGO
KEY POINTS
  • Boeing suspended production of the 737 Max this month as their grounding goes on longer than expected.
  • Boeing has pushed back when it expects regulators to clear the planes to fly again by months, to mid-2020.
 

CNBC: Dave Calhoun, Chairman of Boeing SB exclusive 191105

Dave Calhoun, Chairman of Boeing.
Adam Jeffery | CNBC

Boeing’s new CEO, Dave Calhoun, said Wednesday that he wants the company to resume production of the 737 Max months before regulators sign off on the planes and airlines prepare to return them to service.

Boeing suspended production of the planes this month because a worldwide grounding of the jetliners after two fatal crashes lasted months longer than expected. Boeing shares fell more than 3% on Tuesday after the company pushed back its estimate of when regulators would sign off on the planes by months to the middle of 2020.

 

The 737 Max production shutdown has already cost thousands of jobs and raised concerns about the crisis’ impact on the broader economy.

But Calhoun’s comments indicate the company does not expect the production pause to last more than a few months.

“We got to get that line started up again,” he said on a conference call with reporters. “And the supply chain will be reinvigorated even before that.”

Boeing shares were down 1.6% in afternoon trading, bringing their weekly losses to nearly 5%.

The 737 Max crisis has rippled through Boeing’s supply chain, which includes General Electric and Spirit AeroSystems. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin earlier this month estimated that the issues stemming from the plane’s grounding could shave half a percentage point off U.S. economic growth this year.

 

Wichita, Kansas-based Spirit AeroSystems on Jan. 10 announced it would cut an initial 2,800 jobs because of the Max grounding.

Calhoun said Wednesday that Boeing is not planning to lay off or furlough any of its employees because of the production pause, even with Boeing’s new estimate that regulators will approve the planes again midyear.

Calhoun, a decadelong Boeing board member who took the helm of the manufacturer last week, is tasked with steadying the company, shaken by the 737 Max upheaval.

Internal emails that were recently made public revealed employees boasted about bullying regulators into accepting less time-consuming pilot training before officials allowed Boeing to deliver the planes to airlines. In other messages, Boeing employees expressed safety concerns about the plane. In the wide-ranging call with reporters, Calhoun said he intended to improve the company’s culture and lift employee morale.

A flight-control system Boeing included in the jets was implicated in the two Max crashes — a Lion Air flight in October 2018 and an Ethiopian Airlines flight less than five months later — which killed all 346 people on board. Boeing is now scrambling to get regulators to sign off on changes to that software and other fixes to the plane.

The Federal Aviation Administration has said several times that it doesn’t have a firm timeline to recertify the planes.

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42 minutes ago, conehead said:

Where the heck are they going to put them??

Maybe no where, this could just be posturing for the public............if not, is there a highway that running past the factory that they could rent? 😀

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they could be used to create artificial coral reefs.  That would be a good use

 

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On 1/21/2020 at 7:29 PM, AIP said:

WJ has already removed the word "MAX" from their aircraft.

Was done very quietly and quite some time ago.

Wrong. 

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