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ANALYSIS: China and Asia-Pacific lead 737 Max fleet distribution

  • 11 March, 2019
  • SOURCE: Flight Dashboard
  • BY: Max Kingsley-Jones
  • London

The grounding by the Civil Aviation Administration of China of Boeing 737 Max aircraft in operation with local carriers removes the single largest fleet worldwide from operation.

According to data from Cirium’s Fleets Analyzer, there are 371 737 Max aircraft currently in service, just over a quarter of which are in operation with Chinese carriers - 97 aircraft, equating to just over a quarter of the global fleet.

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Major Chinese Max operators include China Southern Airlines (24), Air China (15) and Shanghai Airlines and Hainan Airlines (11 each).

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The Max fleet is currently spread across 54 operators based in 34 countries. Asia-Pacific carriers currently account for the largest fleet of 737 Max aircraft – 136 aircraft (37% share).

The USA is the second largest Max market, with 72 aircraft in service. This Includes 34 aircraft flying with Southwest Airlines, which is the largest Max operator worldwide. Other major US operators include American Airlines (24) and United Airlines (14).

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The other large Max fleet is centred in Canada, where 40 aircraft are in service with Air Canada (24), WestJet (13) and Sunwing Airlines (3).

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. . . and the B737 flight controls are mechanical; no C* laws apply to the type. The MCAS is a physical intervention, albeit driven by software using the present physical installation, (the STS, speed trim system).

T-nine, in terms of licencing and training the MAX is legally the same "type" according to the FAA FSB, (Flight Stanardization Board). I think the Brazillians disagree in their Agência Nacional de Aviação Civil Operational Evaluation Board document and have set the MAX as a different "type", but know nothing beyond that regarding AOM requirements, training or licencing.

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28 years old. First command. And how many hours ON TYPE?

FO 200 hours...... TOTAL!

On an aircraft with lots of ‘gotchas’.

Not good. But perhaps not that uncommon. 

What has this industry come to?

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Comair latest to take 737 Max out of service

  • 11 March, 2019
  • SOURCE: Flight Dashboard
  • London

South African carrier Comair has become the latest Boeing 737 Max operator to take the type out of scheduled service following the fatal crash of an Ethiopian Airlines flight yesterday.

Comair, which operates flights as a British Airways franchisee as well under the Kulula budget brand says it has decided to remove its one 737 Max from its flight schedule. Executive director of its airline division, Wrenelle Stander, however stresses that neither regulatory authorities nor the manufacturer has required it to do so.

 

"While Comair has done extensive preparatory work prior to the introduction of the first 737 Max 8 into its fleet and remains confident in the inherent safety of the aircraft, it has decided temporarily not to schedule the aircraft while it consults with other operators, Boeing and technical experts," the airline says.

Comair only received the first of eight of the type it has on order at the end of February. "The safety and confidence of our customers and crew is always our priority," says Stander.

Following the fatal crash of an Ethiopian Airlines 737 Max 8 operating flight ET302 to Nairobi shortly after take-off from Addis Ababa yesterday, the carrier decided to ground the type as an extra safety precaution. The Civil Aviation Administration of China had earlier grounded the type following the crash. China has the largest number of Max 8s in service, 97, Cirium's Fleets Analyzer shows. Cayman Airways has also grounded its two Max 8s.

Royal Air Maroc grounds Boeing 737 MAX 8 after Ethiopian crash

 
 
  •  
    Rabat (Reuters) - Morocco’s national carrier Royal Air Maroc has temporarily grounded a Boeing 737 MAX 8 following the fatal crash of the same type of aircraft in Ethiopia, an official said on Monday.

An Ethiopian Airlines MAX 8 crashed shortly after take-off from Addis Ababa on Sunday, killing all 157 people on board.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Royal Air Maroc on Sunday grounded its only MAX 8 in use and will not fly it until Boeing completes investigations into the aircraft type.

The grounding would not affect the airline’s operations, the official said, adding that it has a second MAX 8 which is not yet in service.

Reporting by Ahmed Eljechtimi, writing by Alexander Cornwell, editing by Susan Fenton

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6 hours ago, j.k. said:

 . . .

The stab trim cutout switches will completely disable the system's ability to trim. 

. . .

The irony being, one is disabling a system that appears to be a type-certification requirement.

On private non-manufacturer decisions by various operators around the world to ground their MAX's, they must consider all factors and do as they feel best but it's my view that there is no indication that the aircraft is "unsafe" providing the recent AD is fully understood, trained, reviewed by crews and where necessary, actioned accordingly. One grounds an aircraft when one doesn't know what the problem is after a serious event and doesn't know yet what protective responses are to be taken.

Also, while the Thales pitot installation may have been an issue for ~30 A330 UAS events and one fatal hull loss, there is no evidence yet, that this a/c's #1 AoA sensor was providing incorrect data.

 

Edited by Don Hudson
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20 hours ago, rudder said:

FO 200 hours...... TOTAL!

My goodness, I saw that and assumed 200 on type…. if that’s total, it’s a lot of airplane for that experience level. In a previous lifetime….TRI/TRE (on another type mind you), I had quite a few foreign students at that threshold.I then had some of them back for recurrent training 6 months later, “not stellar” (as mentioned previously) succinctly covers it.

IMO, a lot of training time is dedicated to mastering the automation and very little devoted to selecting the appropriate level of automation to the task at hand. If my returning students were any indication of this being a trend, then I feel safe noting (in general and not specifically aimed at this occurrence) that too many pilots allow automation to place their aircraft in situations that are either unrecoverable or demanding maximum performance to avoid being so. Reverting to hands and feet was a tough sell with them and some (due to skill fade) even lacked the cross check speed to prevail in the effort. Sadly, a few minutes of twizzles (remember them) was sufficient to reinit them in most cases and 15 minutes later, the results were dramatically different on the re-do.

Edited by Wolfhunter

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From the AA Fight Attendant Union:

Here's the letter from the APFA president saying 'normal' fear of flying procedures will be followed.


aa_fa_9ff89e9615271495c6151397ebd6392866

Airbubba is online nowReport Post  
 

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A interesting article re Southwest, evidently the mod was offered from Boeing but not all airlines purchased it. What about AirCanada and WestJet? Evidently AA had it added to their aircraft when first purchased.

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device to avoid a repeat of the Lion Air crash that killed 189 people

Nov. 30, 2018, 5:41 AM
          

 

  • Southwest Airlines is activating a new safety feature in its Boeing 737 Max fleet after the Indonesian government identified issues with the Lion Air plane that crashed and killed 189 people.
  • The government said there was an issue with the plane's Angle of Attack (AOA) system, which wrongly caused the plane's anti-stall system to kick in and push the plane's nose lower, making it harder to control.
  • It is not certain that AOA errors caused the crash, but it is a possibility.
  • Southwest is now planning on activating an additional indicator in its Boeing 737 Max planes, which would alert pilots of erroneous readings in the system.
 

Southwest Airlines is adding a new safety device to its fleet of Boeing 737 Max planes to avoid an incident like the Lion Air crash which killed 189 people in October.

Southwest confirmed to aviation publication The Air Current that it will activate new Angle of Attack (AOA) indicators on its planes which will warn if the sensors are giving incorrect data.

The airline said in a statement that the new measure "will provide a valuable supplemental cross-check in the event there is an erroneous AOA signal present."

The indicator is an optional additional check on the aircraft's AOA system, which senses the plane's angle and pushes the nose of the aircraft down if it is pointing too high. The system is design to prevent the plane from stalling.with the device, according to the report

says American had opted for the display feature from the get go.

https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-s...737-max-fleet/

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In my opinion, Boeing should’ve made AoA indicators standard issue in every Max after the Lion Air crash.

There is so much blank screen space on the outboard displays, it is ridiculous.  

 

 

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From Boeing Customer Support:

FAA releases Continued Airworthiness Notification to the International Community
To: Civil Aviation Authorities Date: March 11, 2019
From: Federal Aviation Administration Aircraft Certification Service System Oversight Division, AIR-800 2200 South 216th Street Des Moines, WA 98198


Subject: This message provides information regarding FAA continued operational safety activity related to the Boeing 737-8 and Boeing 737-9 (737 MAX) fleet.


Situation description: Following the accident of an Ethiopian Airlines Boeing Model 737-8 airplane on March 10, 2019, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) as the accredited representative, and the FAA as Technical Advisors, are supporting the Ethiopian Accident Investigation Bureau. The FAA has dispatched personnel to support the investigative authorities in determining the circumstances of this event. All data will be closely examined during this investigation, and the FAA will take appropriate action if the data indicates the need to do so.
External reports are drawing similarities between this accident and the Lion Air Flight 610 accident on October 29, 2018. However, this investigation has just begun and to date we have not been provided data to draw any conclusions or take any actions.


Following the Lion Air Flight 610 accident, the FAA has completed these activities in support of continued operational safety of the fleet:
- Issued FAA emergency Airworthiness Directive (AD) 2018-23-51 on November 7, 2018
- Validated that airplane maintenance and functional check instructions on Angle of Attack (AOA) vane replacement were adequate
- Conducted simulator sessions to verify the Operational Procedures called out in FAA AD 2018-23-51
- Validated AOA vane bench check calibration procedures were adequate
- Reviewed Boeing’s production processes related to the AOA vane and Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS)

Ongoing oversight activities by the FAA include:
- Boeing’s completion of the flight control system enhancements, which provide reduced reliance on procedures associated with required pilot memory items. The FAA anticipates mandating these design changes by AD no later than April 2019.


- Design changes include:
 MCAS Activation Enhancements
 MCAS AOA Signal Enhancements
 MCAS Maximum Command Limit


- Boeing’s plans to update training requirements and flight crew manuals to go with the MCAS design change include:

o Airplane Flight Manual (AFM) and Flight Crew Operations Manual (FCOM)

o Quick Reference Handbook (QRH) - notes in Speed Trim Fail checklist

o Airplane Maintenance Manual (AMM)
o Interactive Fault Isolation Manual (iFIM)
o Boeing has proposed Level A training impacts


Aircraft/engine make, model, and series: The Boeing Company Model 737-8 and 737-9 airplanes (737 MAX)
U.S.-registered fleet: 74 airplanes; Worldwide fleet: 387 airplanes


Operators: 59 operators worldwide: 9 Air, Aerolineas Argentinas, Aeromexico, Air Canada, Air China, Air Fiji, AIR ITALY S.P.A., American Airlines, Arkefly, Britannia Airways AB, Cayman Airways, China Eastern Airlines, China Southern Airlines, Comair, COPA Airlines, Corendon Airlines, Eastar Jet, Enter Air Sp. Z O.O., Ethiopian Airlines, Fertitta Enterprises, Inc., flydubai, Fuzhou Airlines Co., Ltd, Garuda Indonesia, Gol Linhas Aereas S.A., Hainan Airlines, Icelandair, Jet Airways, Jet Aviation Business Jets, JSC Aircompany SCAT, Kunming Airlines, Lion Air, Globus Airlines, LOT Polish Airlines, Lucky Air, Mauritania Airlines, Mongolian Airlines MIAT, Norwegian Air International Lt, Norwegian Air Norway, Norwegian Air Shuttle AS, Norwegian Air Sweden, Okay Airways Company Limited, Oman Air, Qatar Airways, Royal Air Maroc, Shandong Airlines, Shanghai Airlines, Shenzhen Airlines, SilkAir, Smartwings, Southwest Airlines, SpiceJet, Sunwing Airlines Inc., Thai Lion, TUI Airlines Belgium, TUI Airways, Turkish Airlines (THY), United Airlines, WestJet, Xiamen Airlines

FAA contact: Jeffrey E. Duven, Director, System Oversight Division
Telephone and Fax: (206) 231-3200

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And from Boeing, a software update (or I guess a fix)

Boeing to update software in model of plane involved in Ethiopian crash

Boeing confirms it will deploy a software upgrade to the 737 Max 8 — the model that crashed on Sunday in Ethiopia and several months ago in Indonesia.

Firm says it has been developing 'enhancement' since fatal Lion Air crash in October

Thomson Reuters · Posted: Mar 11, 2019 10:21 PM ET | Last Updated: 3 minutes ago
 
The Boeing 737 Max 8 entered commercial use in 2017 and can carry up to 210 passengers. (Boeing)

Boeing has said it will deploy a software upgrade to the 737 Max 8, while airlines around the world grounded the jet and authorities continued to identify the remains of 157 people killed in Sunday's Ethiopian Airlines crash.

Sunday's disaster — following a fatal crash of a 737 Max 8 jet in Indonesia five months ago — has caused alarm in the international aviation industry and wiped billions of dollars off the market value of the world's biggest plane-maker.

Safety experts say it is too early to speculate on what caused Sunday's crash or whether the two recent accidents are linked. Most accidents are caused by a unique chain of events combining human and technical factors.

The victims came from more than 30 different nations, including 18 from Canada and nearly two dozen staff from the United Nations.

Given the problems identifying them at the charred disaster site, Ethiopia Airlines said it would take at least five days to start returning the remains to families.

"We are Muslim and have to bury our deceased immediately," Noordin Mohamed, a 27-year-old Kenyan businessman whose brother and mother died, told Reuters.

"Losing a brother and mother in the same day and not having their bodies to bury is very painful," he said in Nairobi, where the plane had been due.

Design changes

Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 came down in a field soon after takeoff from Addis Ababa on Sunday, creating a fireball in a crater. It may be weeks or months before all the victims are identified.

Black box recorders were found at the Ethiopian crash site on Monday, but it was unclear where they would be examined.

As long as the recordings are undamaged, the cause of the crash could be identified quickly, although it typically takes a year to complete an investigation.

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration said it is overseeing some design changes to the aircraft, expected to be in place by April. The FAA said it expects Boeing will soon complete improvements to an automated anti-stall system suspected of contributing to the deadly crash of another new Boeing 737 Max 8 in Indonesian waters in October, and update training requirements and related flight crew manuals.

Boeing said in the aftermath of October's Lion Air Flight crash it has for several months "been developing a flight control software enhancement for the 737 Max, designed to make an already safe aircraft even safer."

The software upgrade "will be deployed across the 737 Max fleet in the coming weeks," it said.

But the company said it has no reason to pull the aircraft from the skies "based on the information available."

Jets grounded

By Tuesday, civil aviation authorities or airlines had grounded nearly 40 per cent of the world's in-service fleet of 737 Max 8s.

Ethiopian Airlines and all Chinese airlines grounded their Max 8 planes indefinitely immediately after the crash. Ethiopian has four of the planes remaining in its fleet and was awaiting delivery of 25 more. China has 96 Max 8 jets in service.

Indonesia also said Monday it grounded 11 of the aircraft for inspections. As of Tuesday, Caribbean carrier Cayman Airways, South Korea's Eastar Jet, Singapore-based SilkAir, Brazil's Gol Airlines, Argentina's state airline Aerolineas Argentinas, Mexican airline Aeromexico, Comair in South Africa and Royal Air Maroc in Morocco had all temporarily suspended operation of their Max 8s.

On Tuesday, Australia suspended all flights into or out of the country by Max 8s. None of the country's own carriers fly that model.

Still, other major airlines, including American and Southwest in the U.S. and Norwegian Air, said they would keep flying the Max 8.

Canadian Transport Minister Marc Garneau said it would be "premature" to ground all 41 of the planes currently owned by the country's air carriers.

ethiopia-air-crash.jpg

Speaking to reporters in Montreal on Monday, Garneau said he would "without any hesitation" fly on a Max 8.

"I'm reassuring Canadians that we will determine what the cause was [of the Ethiopian] crash," he said. "This plane already has millions of miles of flying."

Canada's two largest airlines say they are confident in the safety of the aircraft. 

Air Canada said its 24 Max 8 aircraft have performed "excellently" and met safety and reliability standards.

Calgary-based WestJet said it is "working with Boeing to ensure the continued safe operation of our Max fleet," which includes 13 Max 8s.

Shares of Chicago-based Boeing slid almost 10 per cent in early trading on Monday. They ended the day down five per cent, halting a surge that has seen the value of the company's stock triple in just over three years to a record high of $446 US last week.

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With an order list of over 5000 aircraft Boeing has to get a handle on this Max problem. 

Order date[n 1] Customer Variant Total Orders Total Deliveries
-7 -8 -9 -10 Unk
May 15, 2014 9 Air 1 30 1
June 12, 2015 AerCap 85 15 100 5
September 29, 2016 Aerolíneas Argentinas 11 - 11 9
November 5, 2012 Aeroméxico 11 2 47 60 5
March 31, 2014 Air Canada 70 11 61 20
December 22, 2014 Air China 14 14 14
December 21, 2015 Air Europa 20 20
July 3, 2012 Air Lease Corporation 14 8 146 168 14
December 1, 2014 Air Niugini 4 4
September 18, 2018 Air Peace 10 10
October 31, 2012 ALAFCO 40 40
October 11, 2012 Alaska Airlines 32 32
February 1, 2013 American Airlines 100 100 22
May 9, 2016 Arik Air 8 8
December 20, 2012 Aviation Capital Group 70 10 20 3 103 5
September 18, 2012 Avolon 65 10 20 95 2
March 17, 2016 Blue Air 6 6
August 13, 2014 BOC Aviation 77 10 87 5
June 1, 2018 Boeing Capital Corporation 75 75
March 21, 2014 Business Jet / VIP Customer(s) 2 19 21 2
June 14, 2017 CALC China 15 35 50
November 21, 2018 Caribbean Airlines [6] [7][8] 12 12
September 28, 2018 CDB Financial Leasing (Ireland) 1 1 1
March 14, 2014 China Development Bank 68 10 78 1
June 17, 2014 China Eastern Airlines 13 13 13
December 17, 2015 China Southern Airlines 50 50 16
June 19, 2013 CIT Leasing Corporation 37 37
December 3, 2013 Comair (South Africa) 8 8 1
May 30, 2013 Copa Airlines 41 15 5 61 5
September 27, 2016 Donghai Airlines 15 10 25
October 29, 2014 Enter Air 2 4 6 2
September 1, 2014 Ethiopian Airlines 30 30 5
March 31, 2017 Fiji Airways 5 5 2
December 31, 2013 Flydubai 131 70 50   251 14
September 12, 2014 Garuda Indonesia 50 50 1
September 28, 2012 GECAS 150 20 6 176 22
October 1, 2012 Gol Transportes Aéreos 105 30 135 6
June 28, 2018 Goshawk Aviation 20 20
July 16, 2014 Hainan Airlines 3 4 7 7
May 21, 2013 ICBC Leasing 5 5 5
February 12, 2013 Icelandair 3 2 5 3
June 29, 2018 Jackson Square Aviation 30 30
November 19, 2018 Jeju Air 40 40
April 23, 2013 Jet Airways 125 125 6
December 11, 2014 Jetlines 5 5
August 17, 2017 Japan Investment Advisor 10 10
November 9, 2015 Korean Air 30 30
February 22, 2012 Lion Air[n 2] 10 4 100 87 201 14
December 2, 2017 LOT Polish Airlines 12 12 5
July 1, 2016 Malaysia Airlines 15 10 25
November 18, 2016 Mauritania Airlines International 1 1 1
May 16, 2014 Nok Air 6 6
January 24, 2012 Norwegian Air Shuttle 110 110 18
May 27, 2014 Okay Airways 9 9
October 19, 2015 Oman Air 20 20
December 29, 2016 Qatar Airways 5 5 5
July 4, 2013 Royal Air Maroc 4 4 2
December 21, 2013 Ruili Airlines 6 30 36
November 28, 2014 Ryanair[n 3] 135 135
March 28, 2018 SCAT Airlines 6 2 8 1
April 29, 2014 Shandong Airlines 6 6 6
December 30, 2014 Shenzhen Airlines 5 5 5
November 9, 2012 SilkAir 37 37 5
March 13, 2018 SkyUp Airlines 2 5 7
September 21, 2018 Smartwings 8 8 1
November 10, 2014 SMBC Aviation Capital 91 91 2
December 13, 2011 Southwest Airlines[n 4] 30 250 280 31
October 23, 2013 SpiceJet 116 20 136 7
February 12, 2014 SunExpress 15 17 32
June 16, 2018 TAROM 5 5
January 15, 2014 Timaero Ireland 22 22 2
July 9, 2013 TUI Group 54 18 72 11
May 8, 2013 Turkish Airlines 65 10 75 7
October 17, 2018 Turkmenistan Airlines 3 3
October 1, 2012 Unidentified Customer(s) 1043 1045
July 12, 2012 United Airlines 36 100 136 12
April 6, 2018 UTair Aviation 28 28
May 22, 2016 VietJet Air 120 80 200
July 6, 2012 Virgin Australia 30 10 40
September 26, 2013 WestJet 23 20 12 55 12
December 21, 2013 XiamenAir 9 9 9
Total 61 2639 242 579 1588 5123 355

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55 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

What a coincidence that Boeing just happens to already be working on a fix.....

56 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

And from Boeing, a software update (or I guess a fix)

Boeing to update software in model of plane involved in Ethiopian crash

Boeing confirms it will deploy a software upgrade to the 737 Max 8 — the model that crashed on Sunday in Ethiopia and several months ago in Indonesia.

Firm says it has been developing 'enhancement' since fatal Lion Air crash in October

Thomson Reuters · Posted: Mar 11, 2019 10:21 PM ET | Last Updated: 3 minutes ago
 
The Boeing 737 Max 8 entered commercial use in 2017 and can carry up to 210 passengers. (Boeing)

Boeing has said it will deploy a software upgrade to the 737 Max 8, while airlines around the world grounded the jet and authorities continued to identify the remains of 157 people killed in Sunday's Ethiopian Airlines crash.

Sunday's disaster — following a fatal crash of a 737 Max 8 jet in Indonesia five months ago — has caused alarm in the international aviation industry and wiped billions of dollars off the market value of the world's biggest plane-maker.

Safety experts say it is too early to speculate on what caused Sunday's crash or whether the two recent accidents are linked. Most accidents are caused by a unique chain of events combining human and technical factors.

The victims came from more than 30 different nations, including 18 from Canada and nearly two dozen staff from the United Nations.

Given the problems identifying them at the charred disaster site, Ethiopia Airlines said it would take at least five days to start returning the remains to families.

"We are Muslim and have to bury our deceased immediately," Noordin Mohamed, a 27-year-old Kenyan businessman whose brother and mother died, told Reuters.

"Losing a brother and mother in the same day and not having their bodies to bury is very painful," he said in Nairobi, where the plane had been due.

Design changes

Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 came down in a field soon after takeoff from Addis Ababa on Sunday, creating a fireball in a crater. It may be weeks or months before all the victims are identified.

Black box recorders were found at the Ethiopian crash site on Monday, but it was unclear where they would be examined.

As long as the recordings are undamaged, the cause of the crash could be identified quickly, although it typically takes a year to complete an investigation.

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration said it is overseeing some design changes to the aircraft, expected to be in place by April. The FAA said it expects Boeing will soon complete improvements to an automated anti-stall system suspected of contributing to the deadly crash of another new Boeing 737 Max 8 in Indonesian waters in October, and update training requirements and related flight crew manuals.

Boeing said in the aftermath of October's Lion Air Flight crash it has for several months "been developing a flight control software enhancement for the 737 Max, designed to make an already safe aircraft even safer."

The software upgrade "will be deployed across the 737 Max fleet in the coming weeks," it said.

But the company said it has no reason to pull the aircraft from the skies "based on the information available."

Jets grounded

By Tuesday, civil aviation authorities or airlines had grounded nearly 40 per cent of the world's in-service fleet of 737 Max 8s.

Ethiopian Airlines and all Chinese airlines grounded their Max 8 planes indefinitely immediately after the crash. Ethiopian has four of the planes remaining in its fleet and was awaiting delivery of 25 more. China has 96 Max 8 jets in service.

Indonesia also said Monday it grounded 11 of the aircraft for inspections. As of Tuesday, Caribbean carrier Cayman Airways, South Korea's Eastar Jet, Singapore-based SilkAir, Brazil's Gol Airlines, Argentina's state airline Aerolineas Argentinas, Mexican airline Aeromexico, Comair in South Africa and Royal Air Maroc in Morocco had all temporarily suspended operation of their Max 8s.

On Tuesday, Australia suspended all flights into or out of the country by Max 8s. None of the country's own carriers fly that model.

Still, other major airlines, including American and Southwest in the U.S. and Norwegian Air, said they would keep flying the Max 8.

Canadian Transport Minister Marc Garneau said it would be "premature" to ground all 41 of the planes currently owned by the country's air carriers.

ethiopia-air-crash.jpg

Speaking to reporters in Montreal on Monday, Garneau said he would "without any hesitation" fly on a Max 8.

"I'm reassuring Canadians that we will determine what the cause was [of the Ethiopian] crash," he said. "This plane already has millions of miles of flying."

Canada's two largest airlines say they are confident in the safety of the aircraft. 

Air Canada said its 24 Max 8 aircraft have performed "excellently" and met safety and reliability standards.

Calgary-based WestJet said it is "working with Boeing to ensure the continued safe operation of our Max fleet," which includes 13 Max 8s.

Shares of Chicago-based Boeing slid almost 10 per cent in early trading on Monday. They ended the day down five per cent, halting a surge that has seen the value of the company's stock triple in just over three years to a record high of $446 US last week.

 

 

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1105468569800839169I hope this won't be seen as political:

 

But Donald Trump has just said:

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are....

 

1105468569800839169

Edited by jump seat
Not sure how to get the Twitter links to work

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....needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!

 

1105468569800839169

 

Edited by jump seat

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59 minutes ago, J.O. said:

Wow! I never thought I'd see the U.K. join in on this ban.

Yes, I see that; disappointing, as that is not the long-standing aviation culture that they are renowned for.

In my view, Canada has taken the correct course of action. There is no basis for grounding the aircraft until there is data. The recorders have been recovered and are hopefully in the U.S. being read, there are SOPs that govern the operation of the MCAS now and millions of hours have been safely flown by the type since last October.

The corrective action is comprehending what Boeing sent out in November of 2018 and ensuring crews thoroughly understand their aircraft and are capable of taking correct action using memory items and NNC's.

The overheated internet/twitter/social-media environment makes it very difficult for people in charge to think and make rational, intelligent decisions based upon data, of which there is none, at present.

To me, grounding an aircraft should occur when the regulator and/or the manufacturer cannot explain through normal means and ready evidence, a serious event, and can't create a response for crews to follow due to lack of data.

The B787 grounding was of this sort, because the Lithium battery fires were not initially clearly understood. Here, there is a procedure which we know worked because the first Lion Air crew used it successfully.

The stick-shaker and possible UAS is certainly a handfull for crews but all this is in "known" territory and is a training matter.

There were 31 UAS events on the A330 and 30 were handled quietly by crews that understood the drill and landed their aircraft safely. The A330 was never grounded and correctly so. I think the same should apply to the MAX.

 

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And of course, the Ethiopian pilot had relatives in Canada:

https://globalnews.ca/news/5045764/ethiopian-plane-crash-pilot-family-speaks/?utm_source=Article&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014

Interesting point in the interview with the aunt when she states his communications with the tower.......how would she know what was transmitted/occurred??

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RE: AOA Indicators

Interesting note that the AOA indicators are fitted to ALL of the aircraft.  These are used during the flight test phase when the aircraft is pre delivery to the customer.  It allows the flight test team to record the behaviour during the Flight Test Procedures.  Certain things must happen at certain AOA angles.

Prior to delivery to the customer, this feature is removed (deactivated) in the system as generally this information is not specifically value added to operating the aircraft.  It seems ow that the indicators are being requested to be left on in service.

My personal feeling on this, is that it may cause as many issues as it hopes to solve.  There is such a thing as too much information and how that information is interpreted.

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and the list gets longer:

 

Icelandair takes some of its Max 8s out of service

 
‎Today, ‎March ‎12, ‎2019, ‏‎14 minutes ago
Icelandair has joined the group of European carriers which are suspending Boeing 737 Max 8 operations.
 

Several US politicians urge 737 Max grounding

 
‎Today, ‎March ‎12, ‎2019, ‏‎23 minutes ago
The Federal Aviation Administration is facing political opposition to its handling of concerns about the Boeing 737 Max, with several lawmakers urging a grounding of the type.
 

Norwegian opts to ground 737 Max

 
‎Today, ‎March ‎12, ‎2019, ‏‎1 hour ago
Norwegian has suspended operations with Boeing 737 Max jets, as regulatory pressure on the twinjet type continues to build.

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Irish Aviation Authority to temporarily suspend Boeing 737 MAX operations

 
‎Today, ‎March ‎12, ‎2019, ‏‎50 minutes ago
The Irish Aviation Authority is temporarily suspending the operation of all variants of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft in Irish airspace with immediate effect following a deadly crash in Ethiopia, it said on Tuesday.
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French aviation authority bans Boeing 737 MAX from its airspace

 
‎Today, ‎March ‎12, ‎2019, ‏‎51 minutes ago
France's DGAC civil aviation authority said on Tuesday it was banning Boeing 737 MAX aircraft from French airspace following the fatal crash last weekend of a plane of the same model in Ethiopia.

Several European air transport regulators have taken individual decisions to ban operations with the Boeing 737 Max, resulting in a patchwork response over use of the aircraft.

The UK, French and Irish civil aviation authorities are among those which have ordered suspension of operations with the re-engined type in the wake of the Ethiopian Airlines accident on 10 March.

Germany’s federal traffic minister has also stated that he is ordering a prohibition on 737 Max operations in German airspace.

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There has been no indication from the European Union Aviation Safety Agency that it is co-ordinating the response.

The situation has been further complicated by several carriers’ independently taking the decision to ground their own Max fleets despite the absence of regulatory guidance.

Budget carrier Norwegian and Icelandair are each putting temporary suspensions in place, while TUI Group – which had been affected by the UK ban – has opted to extend the grounding to its entire Max fleet.

Turkish Airlines has also signalled that it is withdrawing Max flights from 13 March.

Gathering pressure in Europe over the situation, following selective measures in Asia and Latin America, has yet to be reflected in the USA. Boeing has acknowledged the individual decisions by regulators and carriers, but points out that the US FAA is not currently mandating any action.

 

Several European air transport regulators have taken individual decisions to ban operations with the Boeing 737 Max, resulting in a patchwork response over use of the aircraft.

The UK, French and Irish civil aviation authorities are among those which have ordered suspension of operations with the re-engined type in the wake of the Ethiopian Airlines accident on 10 March.

Germany’s federal traffic minister has also stated that he is ordering a prohibition on 737 Max operations in German airspace.

Close X

There has been no indication from the European Union Aviation Safety Agency that it is co-ordinating the response.

The situation has been further complicated by several carriers’ independently taking the decision to ground their own Max fleets despite the absence of regulatory guidance.

Budget carrier Norwegian and Icelandair are each putting temporary suspensions in place, while TUI Group – which had been affected by the UK ban – has opted to extend the grounding to its entire Max fleet.

Turkish Airlines has also signalled that it is withdrawing Max flights from 13 March.

Gathering pressure in Europe over the situation, following selective measures in Asia and Latin America, has yet to be reflected in the USA. Boeing has acknowledged the individual decisions by regulators and carriers, but points out that the US FAA is not currently mandating any action.

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