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Kip Powick

Cargo jet with 3 aboard crashes in Texas

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There have been many accidents on aircraft that were in full compliance with all AD and SBs.  This is where the ADs and SBs come from

 

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2 hours ago, blues deville said:

I haven’t been able find the audio but there is some mention of the word “Pull” or a GPWS warning  being heard in a short transmission recorded by Houston ATC. Does anyone have a link to that audio recording?

I found this YouTube video on another forum. The posting says it has the ATC audio recording and that the accident occurs at approximately 9 minutes.

 

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1 hour ago, J.O. said:

I found this YouTube video on another forum. The posting says it has the ATC audio recording and that the accident occurs at approximately 9 minutes.

 

Thanks JO. Hard to clearly hear some the transmissions but I don’t hear anything unusual. 

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2 hours ago, blues deville said:

Thanks JO. Hard to clearly hear some the transmissions but I don’t hear anything unusual. 

Agreed. There may be something in the background during the last acknowledgement from the crew, but it's very hard to discern.

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The video shows no roll nor any divergence from steep vertical descent path. Somewhat implies loss of control in the pitch axis. Would have to think that only a horizontal stabilizer anomaly could cause such a sudden and extreme diversion in pitch attitude. We will see. Hopefully more info soon from NTSB.

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It actually looked like it was under control in a steep nose down, high speed attitude. Hope it's not what that might indicate...

Has the video been removed or is it in another thread?

Edited by Moon The Loon
Missing Video

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4 hours ago, Moon The Loon said:

It actually looked like it was under control in a steep nose down, high speed attitude. Hope it's not what that might indicate...

Has the video been removed or is it in another thread?

From the latest NTSB communication:

"... “crew communications consistent with a loss control of the aircraft” began 18s prior to the end of the cockpit voice recording..."

So I'm thinking not a pilot suicide scenario. Also, it would seem a rather odd time to "do the deed", (not that there is any "normal" time to do such a thing); that is, to pull a stunt like that after almost fully completing the flight and while maneuvering in the terminal area...?

T9

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Speculating is natural here but best avoided methinks.  Especially once we start in the possibilities of intentional destruction.

Perhaps OT:

While not (I hope) relevant to this flight - In general, when it comes to suicidal intent, what makes an impending action so hard to stop is the absence of visible warning signs, or indeed the presence of reassuring outward indications that the person is well or that things are improving. 

Far too often,  families of high performing individuals in particular struggle with guilt after a suicide, burdened with the (often) false belief that they should have seen something or that they failed to understand and should have.   The evidence seems to suggest that the logic of a suicidal individual is often impenetrable to others, no matter how close.  So what may appear to be odd timing to anyone else, might make perfect sense to the individual contemplating their own end.   That individual may arrive at a place where they assign only positive effects to their upcoming action and are unable to process any thought of what it truly means to others - co workers, loved ones left behind, even their own children who will be forever harmed.  Along with ending their pain, the individual may form an unshakeable belief that the world will be better of without them in it. 

The shock when a loved one goes this way is just the beginning of the tragedy.

FWIW

Vs

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Meanwhile back in Houston this information is being shared:

Also, about this time, the FDR data indicated that some small vertical accelerations consistent with the airplane entering turbulence. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.  
FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.

Edited by blues deville
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Here is a more complete story but I can not find anything on the NTSB site containing this information.

Quote

Crashed Atlas 767 dove after turbulence and 'column input': NTSB

  • 12 March, 2019
  • SOURCE: Flight Dashboard
  • BY: Jon Hemmerdinger
  • Boston

The Atlas Air Boeing 767-300ER Freighter that crashed last month was flying in turbulence and had pitched nose up before control column movement put the aircraft into a fatal dive, according to the US National Transportation Safety Board.

An investigatory updated released by the NTSB on 12 March provides no conclusions about the cause of the 23 February crash, but provides new details about the final minutes of the flight.

The 767, registration N1217A, was descending to land at Houston Intercontinental airport when it crashed into Trinity Bay, about 35nm (65km) southeast of the airport.

Close X

The aircraft was operating Atlas flight 3591 from Miami to Houston. Three people aboard the aircraft – two pilots and one passenger – died in the wreck.

Several minutes before the crash, as the aircraft descended through 13,800ft, an air traffic controller advised the pilots of "an area of light-to-heavy precipitation along the route", says the NTSB's update.

Controllers approved a request by the pilots to fly west of the rain, but added that the course change required they descend "expeditiously" to 3,000ft. The aircraft was soon heading 270°, descending through 8,500ft, says the NTSB, citing aircraft communications data.

Asset Image

This NTSB graphic, based upon ADS-B data, profiles Atlas flight 3591's final seconds

NTSB

The aircraft levelled briefly at 6,200ft, then climbed to 6,300ft, with flight data indicating "small vertical accelerations consistent with the airplane entering turbulence".

"Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230kt (426km/h), the engines increased to maximum thrust and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input," says the NTSB.

"The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate," it adds.

Asset Image

The NTSB released an image from a ground-based security camera showing the 767, hidden partly behind trees, descending

NTSB

The 767 began a "rapid descent", accelerating to 430kt in a "steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp", the NTSB says.

"The airplane gradually pitched up to about 20° nose down during the descent," it adds.

The captain had worked at Atlas Air since September 2015 and had logged 11,000h of flight time, including about 1,250h in 767s. The first officer had worked for Atlas since July 2017 and had about 5,000h of flight experience, including 520h of 767 time, the NTSB says.

The aircraft was manufactured in 1992 and had accumulated 91,063h of flight time and 23,316 cycles.

The NTSB intends to release the transcript of the cockpit voice recorder at a later date, it says.

 

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1 hour ago, Don Hudson said:

So no requirement to issue operational/system/mechanical guidance to other operators...

I don’t think the NTSB has anything definitive to share. Some of the crash site debris has moved with local tide activity hampering the gathering of aircraft parts and pieces. This is becoming a real puzzle. 

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59 minutes ago, J.O. said:

So was this a case of a permanent solution to a temporary problem?

Not necessarily. Perhaps the Captain suffered a medical event, slumped forward against the column... Who knows?

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Thats why the shoulder harnesses lock.  Other pilot reaches over hits the switch and pushes the pilot back in his seat.  The pilot then flies the aircraft.  At least thas how its supposed to work.

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4 hours ago, boestar said:

Thats why the shoulder harnesses lock.  Other pilot reaches over hits the switch and pushes the pilot back in his seat.  The pilot then flies the aircraft.  At least thas how its supposed to work.

time and physical ability of the non incapacitated pilot allowing of course.

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