Longranger 6 Report post Posted January 20, 2019 Johnny, If as by your post you are implying you work for AC, and if that is the case, unless you were on the negotiating team, I would take a lot of external information with a grain of salt. I wasn’t involved in the negotiations either, but any person that would have ever been involved knows that during many negotiations a lot of things get said and positions are taken, during the process. In the end, all that matters is the end result to both parties. If one party takes an extreme position, that forces the the other to come back with one as well, and ALPA was using Delta for example as a comparator, and telling pilots they were substantially underpaid, and the arbitration proved that not to be the case. I don’t have a current ACPA contract in front of me but the hourly rate on both the 787/767 today, with the ESP included, but none of the other equity uplifts that we get, is within pennies of the rate from March of 2018 for the 787 at AC mainline. As well we were due for a another bigger raise in 2020, if ALPA was able to capture a previous MOA agreement that was negotiated by the WJPA. I don’t have an Encore agreement handy, and it is now under negotiation but, it was competitive with the Jazz ALPA agreement, and we’ll see what happens with their next agreement and as well what ALPA at Jazz is voting on now for the new CPA terms. No one is a victim in this process, as the pilots had a right to join ALPA, and the process played out and the results are there, and most pilots are not too happy about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm 1,014 Report post Posted January 26, 2019 Despite what the CFO says, it appears to me that WestJet is offering screaming good deals compared to their competition. o screaming good' deals on WestJet's first 787 flights: CFO 25 January, 2019 SOURCE: Flight Dashboard BY: Jon Hemmerdinger Boston Canadian low-cost carrier WestJet is taking a somewhat novel tack in how it prices seats on soon-to-launch Boeing 787-9 flights. Instead of slashing prices to generate demand, the carrier is selling seats at market rates, therefore avoiding having to hike fares later. "We have approached it a little differently than we have approached new markets in the past," says chief executive Harry Taylor on 24 January. "We are not going in with screaming good deals." Cl "If you want to fly with us in business class you are going to pay what you would normally pay for a business class seat, not a 25 or 30% reduction." WestJet is elling round trip, business-class seats for roughly $4,500, according to its website. The move differs from WestJet's typical strategy and that of other carriers such as JetBlue Airways, which shook up the US transcontinental market by introducing lie-flat seats in 2014. JetBlue started selling tickets on those flights in 2013 at fares half as much as competitors were charging for lie-flat transcontinental seats. But WestJet executives say the strategy is working, noting that yields on early bookings of 787 transcontinental flights are higher than yields on the same routes served last year by Boeing 767s. Unlike 767s, WestJet's 787s will have 16 lie-flat seats in business class, plus 28 premium economy seats and a mix of regular coach and extra-legroom coach seats, the airline says. "We are very happy with the bookings we are seeking right now," says WestJet vice-president of network planning and alliances Brian Znotins. "We are particularly pleased with the performance of the premium cabin." WestJet took delivery of its first 787-9 earlier this month and has orders for another nine of the aircraft. The carrier plans to deploy 787s from Calgary to London starting 28 April, from Calgary to Paris on 17 May and from Calgary to Dublin on 1 June, it has said Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Super 80 211 Report post Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 3:25 PM, Malcolm said: "If you want to fly with us in business class you are going to pay what you would normally pay for a business class seat, not a 25 or 30% reduction." Team America is completely deluded if they think they have any pricing power at all, they're starting from nothing here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thor 53 Report post Posted February 7, 2019 WestJet has successfully demonstrated the evacuation and ditching procedures to Transport Canada Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm 1,014 Report post Posted February 7, 2019 19 minutes ago, thor said: WestJet has successfully demonstrated the evacuation and ditching procedures to Transport Canada Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm 1,014 Report post Posted February 7, 2019 On 1/27/2019 at 8:56 PM, Super 80 said: Team America is completely deluded if they think they have any pricing power at all, they're starting from nothing here. WestJet said: Quote If you want to fly with us in business class you are going to pay what you would normally pay for a business class seat, not a 25 or 30% reduction. It seems that their normal business class seat is very well priced compared to the competition. I think they have a winner, at least until BA and AC lower their prices to match. May 11 Business Class on WestJet nonstop to LGW $2784.81 July 13th $2299.41 May 11 Business Class on AirCanada nonstop to LHR 18:20 May 11th $8311 and On July 13th $8311.00 BA YYC - LHR May 11 Non Stop Business $8302.00 and on July 13th $8302.00 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blues deville 608 Report post Posted February 7, 2019 That’s quite a savings for those seats but isn’t Westjet’s introductory pricing always designed to assist with gaining market share and once established it quietly rises to match the competition. If not they shut down the route/service? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm 1,014 Report post Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, blues deville said: That’s quite a savings for those seats but isn’t Westjet’s introductory pricing always designed to assist with gaining market share and once established it quietly rises to match the competition. If not they shut down the route/service? Most carriers do the same but into rates don't normally last for months. It will be interesting to see what happens on the other routes when the 787 is introduced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blues deville 608 Report post Posted February 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, Malcolm said: Most carrier do the same but into rates don't normally last for months. It will be interesting to see what happens on the other routes when the 787 is introduced. Westjet isn’t adding new 787 tails at the same rate as AC does so it will be an interesting deployment for them. Perhaps their focus should be on other routes currrenly not served by the competitor’s 787s. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Super 80 211 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Malcolm said: WestJet said: It seems that their normal business class seat is very well priced compared to the competition. I think they have a winner, at least until BA and AC lower their prices to match. You're comparing WestJet's base business class fare to Air Canada's flexible business class fare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm 1,014 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Super 80 said: You're comparing WestJet's base business class fare to Air Canada's flexible business class fare. and the difference is? I am just quoting what the various sites show as available fares for business class on the days shown. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadaEH 153 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, Malcolm said: Most carriers do the same but into rates don't normally last for months. It will be interesting to see what happens on the other routes when the 787 is introduced. My understanding is there is no introductory pricing for business class which is not what WestJet normally does. Bookings are strong from what I've seen. Edited February 8, 2019 by CanadaEH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm 1,014 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 32 minutes ago, CanadaEH said: My understanding is there is no introductory pricing for business class which is not what WestJet normally does. Bookings are strong from what I've seen. In that case it is one hell of a deal. Mind you perhaps the yyc-lgw city pair has something to do with it, though I see the upcoming YYC-Paris flights are showing the same great business class fares. Around 1800.00 ow 8hr plus non stop vs AC at 7400.00 or so for their 12hr + one stop flight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gooseberry 5 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 What day are you looking at? I don't see any Air Canada fare at $7400. ow. Nice try though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm 1,014 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Gooseberry said: What day are you looking at? I don't see any Air Canada fare at $7400. ow. Nice try though. You didn't look very hard. Departing Flight Change Flight Saturday, July 13th, 2019 Calgary, CA (YYC) - Paris, FR (CDG) 10:25 1 Stop - 12hr05m - arriving next day 06:30 Calgary Paris YUL + 1hr22m Details Business Class (lowest) fare rules Opens in a New Window $7444 1 adult You've chosen superior comfort and convenience with spacious seating, personalized service, fine cuisine, extra baggage allowance and access to premium airport services. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gooseberry 5 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 Air Canada website. Departure from YYC via YUL. Saturday July 13, 2019. $2262. J Class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm 1,014 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, Gooseberry said: Air Canada website. Departure from YYC via YUL. Saturday July 13, 2019. $2262. J Class. Departing Flight https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home.html#/faredriven:0/farereview:0 Change Flight Thursday, July 11th, 2019 Calgary, CA (YYC) - Paris, FR (CDG) 10:25 1 Stop - 12hr05m - arriving next day 06:30 Calgary Paris YUL + 1hr22m Details Business Class (lowest) fare rules Opens in a New Window $7444 1 adult You've chosen superior comfort and convenience with spacious seating, personalized service, fine cuisine, extra baggage allowance and access to premium airport services. Strange the AC Website shows me quite a different fare. for the date you quote. The fare you quote is for Premium Economy. https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home.html#/faredriven:0/farereview:0 Saturday, July 13th, 2019 Calgary, CA (YYC) - Paris, FR (CDG) 10:25 1 Stop - 12hr05m - arriving next day 06:30 Calgary Paris YUL + 1hr22m Details Business Class (lowest) fare rules Opens in a New Window $7444 1 adult Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gooseberry 5 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 That fare is based upon one way only. If you put in a return date then its considerably less. If you want to play that game. Then you can also say that Westjet's J Class Fare is $6943.32 off their website. Personally I don't give a crap what Westjet charges. In fact most Air Canada employees don't even think about Westjet anymore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm 1,014 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 Just now, Gooseberry said: That fare is based upon one way only. If you put in a return date then its considerably less. If you want to play that game. Then you can also say that Westjet's J Class Fare is $6943.32 off their website. Personally I don't give a crap what Westjet charges. In fact most Air Canada employees don't even think about Westjet anymore. So why the huff?????? by the by I clearly showed that the comparison was for ow fares. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gooseberry 5 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 I am not sure why you have huff. I know that I don't. However, if you are going to quote fares...then at least quote all the facts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm 1,014 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Gooseberry said: I am not sure why you have huff. I know that I don't. However, if you are going to quote fares...then at least quote all the facts. I did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm 1,014 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 But since you bring up specific return business class fares..... Note the quotes are for the same days and were obtained at 16:26 EST. So WestJet is still a great deal and in particular because of the nonstop nature of their flights. AC does however have them beat on frequency. AC July 12 via yul return on the 20th GRAND TOTAL - Canadian dollars ( Change currency ) $6926.73https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home.html#/faredriven:2/farereview:2 WestJet July 12 nonstop return on the 20th Calgary, AB (YYC) Paris, France (CDG)Fri., Jul. 12 - Sat., Jul. 20 3,788.73CAD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm 1,014 Report post Posted February 9, 2019 Curious as to where the 767s are / will be deployed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ng78 3 Report post Posted February 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Malcolm said: Curious as to where the 767s are / will be deployed. Swoop eventually? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maverick 278 Report post Posted February 10, 2019 1 hour ago, ng78 said: Swoop eventually? I kind of doubt that. I think they'll be used for higher volume shorter routes to keep them closer to home. YVR-CUN, YYZ-PVR, YYZ-YVR maybe some lower yield European routes ex-YYZ as well. I think ALPA might have an issue with them going to Swoop too... Just my WAG, I don't have any inside info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
