WestJet 787

[blues deville]

2 hours ago, Malcolm said:

Are the crews ready?  I imagine the pilots will need  simulator time before taking control of the real aircraft ? I know AC has 787 simulators but does WestJet? In other words where will the WestJet pilots receive their simulator training?

WS has been training pilots for months in advance of the aircraft arrival but there are other post delivery items such as a TC monitored passenger evacuation. AC 787’s have a different config so the WS version has to be demonstrated. That is only one item but I’m sure the airline has other ground training to review before it enters revenue service.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, blues deville said:

WS has been training pilots for months in advance of the aircraft arrival but there are other post delivery items such as as TC monitored passenger evacuation. AC 787’s have a different config so the WS version has to be demonstrated. That is only one item but I’m sure the airline has other ground training to review before it enters revenue service.

As I suspected. Thanks  I also note that the aircraft has yet to appear on the Transport Canada registration site.

[AIP]

sounds expensive

[Neophyte]

Looks like 787 flights begin Feb 1 with a series of dry runs before the official Feb 20 launch.  

 

 

[Johnny]

The first time I saw a WestJet Pilot on his knees grooming, I was disgusted.  I am glad there is finally some push back! 

[mo32a]

^Really? I don't know where pilots get the reputation as being primadonnas.

[Newman]

On 1/14/2019 at 10:31 AM, DEFCON said:

WJ introduced a couple of new concepts to the piloting world that I thought were pretty good ideas such as leather jackets etc., but I thought the grooming policy demeaned the profession and I'm glad to see the practice is finally falling out of favour.

As a manager new to WestJet working in airports, I met more pilots in my first week through grooming aircraft than I did in a decade of working at CP and AC where we were encouraged to keep to ourselves and in some cases catch the other guy doing things wrong (ie. Project Hawkeye, etc...). 

In the following years, those "grooming" relationships evolved personally and professionally.  It opened the door for many of my new pilot friends to pop by my office and give me a heads up about things or pass along a nice compliment.  It also helped me get some things done that required buy in from flight ops thanks to our relationships. 

None of us were being paid to do the grooming.  All of us were "over qualified," "over educated" and deep enough into our careers to think we were too important to be grooming an aircraft, and yet as I look back on my time at WestJet, it was one of the most important and meaningful parts of my time there. 

[blues deville]

2 hours ago, Newman said:

All of us were "over qualified," "over educated" and deep enough into our careers......

I know a couple of original WS pilots and they’d be the first to tell me you’re wrong on both discriptions. But they did roll the dice and won.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, blues deville said:

I know a couple of original WS pilots and they’d be the first to tell me you’re wrong on both discriptions. But they did roll the dice and won.

and their roll came up $$$$$$$$$$$$$, at least for the original pilots. Almost, I understand, as good as winning a lottery but of course with a lot more work involved.  Good for   them.

[Kasey]

BUT........ the Lotto win is tax free 

[Kip Powick]

On 1/15/2019 at 8:31 AM, blues deville said:

I don’t know what giving birth is like but that was painful and one sore day of flying. But at that level of the industry you were expected to do your share of heavy lifting. 

Well, according to a reliable source, it is akin to pushing a watermelon through a button hole. 

Re - pilot assisted grooming at WJ.....how did that originate ? Was it done for company financial reasons or done to embellish the mantra of " we're just one big happy family"?

I honestly have never heard the reason.

[Johnny]

Here's my take on it Kip, from having a good friend who was "original equipment."  WJ played the "we are all equal" game pretty successfully, the Pilot's held their noses and groomed the Airplanes and then went home and counted their money.  The early days of big profit share cheques and fast upgrades.  Times have changed and now the WJ Pilots are quitting in droves, with many coming to AC, some going overseas and even (who would have ever guessed) Sunwing.  On a recent flight with an ex-WJ'er, he described it as a Black Culture with a tattle tail environment of "writing up" your fellow employee as outlined in the CUPE newsletter.  If you're not a good little do-bee we'll send you in for re-programming.

I have also been told that the original casual uniform was done by design, there was a feeling that having the Pilots wear the traditional double breasted Tunic with gold stripes would encourage the Pilots to feel they were above the masses. The casual Uniform and grooming Airplanes was all part of the social experiment.

Well 23 years down the road times have changed, pay is average (to well below at Encore and Swoop,)  upgrades at Mainline are a long wait and profit share cheques have dried up.  AC is hiring gangbusters with fast upgrades and we don't need knee patches on our slacks.

Next few years are going to be fun to watch, here's hoping they open the US border to Canadian Pilots.

 

 

[boestar]

We had several mechanics jump ship over to WJ in the past.  All have moved on because WJ pays below par.  Profit sharing promises don't hold water anymore.  I have turned down job offers there for a couple of years now because they cannot match my total compensation to mt satisfaction.  While the bean counters love it, it isn't good for the overall health of the company.  

 

[Kip Powick]

16 minutes ago, Johnny said:

Here's my take on it Kip,

 

Thank you, appreciate the info. I had heard that a many of the drivers have quit and as you stated , the $$$ well ran dry and the culture went from the "Little Engine That Could " to "Been There - Done That"

[Guest]

back on topic:

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/automotive-transportation-latest-news/airlines-aviation-list/

News provided by

WESTJET, an Alberta Partnership

Jan 17, 2019, 19:00 ET

"Today's delivery marks a new chapter for WestJet," said Ed Sims, WestJet President and CEO. "Boeing's 787 Dreamliner is one of the most technologically advanced aircraft ever flown and is the perfect platform for our transition to a global network carrier. We look forward to bringing Canadians to the world and the world to Canada in comfort and style."

"We are excited to welcome our friends at WestJet to the Dreamliner family," said Ihssane Mounir, Senior Vice-President of Commercial Sales & Marketing for The Boeing Company. "The airline has achieved impressive growth with the Boeing 737 and will now use the 787's unmatched performance and passenger comforts to profitably launch a new 'global era'."

The aircraft departed Everett, Wash., this morning after a naming ceremony in the presence of Mr. Beddoe, members of the WestJet executive team and select WestJetters.

"Because of the leadership, vision and commitment of our Founder and Chairman, Clive, we had the opportunity to fly our Dreamliner home today," continued Sims. "It's fitting the aircraft bears our founder's name as we welcome the future of WestJet."

WestJet will use its 320-seat Dreamliner to begin longer-range flying while giving guests a choice of Economy, Premium and Business cabins.

WestJet's Dreamliners feature WestJet's first lie-flat business cabin seats accompanied by luxurious blankets and pillows, turndown service and in-seat TVs, offering a premium service with a distinctly Canadian feel.  WestJet Premium will offer seats in a 2x3x2 configuration, an elevated guest experience with a separate and private cabin, cozy blankets and pillows available on every seat along with a self-serve social area.

The aircraft also features the Boeing-designed turbulence-dampening technology, improved air quality to reduce jetlag and larger windows that give an increased sense of space.

The first Dreamliner will fly guests domestically on Toronto/Calgary routes starting February 20 to assist with crew familiarisation before the first international service from Calgary to London (Gatwick) on April 28.

The second and third WestJet Dreamliners are currently on the production line at Boeing's factory and will be delivered in February and March this year to coincide with the start of Calgary-Paris and Calgary-Dublin services respectively.

---

Airline's Boeing 787, named after founder Clive Beddoe, headed home

CALGARY, Jan. 17, 2019 /CNW/ - WestJet's first Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner, named in honour of the airline's chairman and founder, Clive Beddoe, is now on its way to WestJet's hometown of Calgary today, marking a new global era for Canada's favourite airline.

"Today's delivery marks a new chapter for WestJet," said Ed Sims, WestJet President and CEO. "Boeing's 787 Dreamliner is one of the most technologically advanced aircraft ever flown and is the perfect platform for our transition to a global network carrier. We look forward to bringing Canadians to the world and the world to Canada in comfort and style."

"We are excited to welcome our friends at WestJet to the Dreamliner family," said Ihssane Mounir, Senior Vice-President of Commercial Sales & Marketing for The Boeing Company. "The airline has achieved impressive growth with the Boeing 737 and will now use the 787's unmatched performance and passenger comforts to profitably launch a new 'global era'."

The aircraft departed Everett, Wash., this morning after a naming ceremony in the presence of Mr. Beddoe, members of the WestJet executive team and select WestJetters.

"Because of the leadership, vision and commitment of our Founder and Chairman, Clive, we had the opportunity to fly our Dreamliner home today," continued Sims. "It's fitting the aircraft bears our founder's name as we welcome the future of WestJet."

WestJet will use its 320-seat Dreamliner to begin longer-range flying while giving guests a choice of Economy, Premium and Business cabins.

WestJet's Dreamliners feature WestJet's first lie-flat business cabin seats accompanied by luxurious blankets and pillows, turndown service and in-seat TVs, offering a premium service with a distinctly Canadian feel.  WestJet Premium will offer seats in a 2x3x2 configuration, an elevated guest experience with a separate and private cabin, cozy blankets and pillows available on every seat along with a self-serve social area.

The aircraft also features the Boeing-designed turbulence-dampening technology, improved air quality to reduce jetlag and larger windows that give an increased sense of space.

The first Dreamliner will fly guests domestically on Toronto/Calgary routes starting February 20 to assist with crew familiarisation before the first international service from Calgary to London (Gatwick) on April 28.

The second and third WestJet Dreamliners are currently on the production line at Boeing's factory and will be delivered in February and March this year to coincide with the start of Calgary-Paris and Calgary-Dublin services respectively.

PICTURE: WestJet gets its first Boeing 787-9

• 18 January, 2019
• SOURCE: Flight Dashboard
• BY: Firdaus Hashim
• Singapore

WestJet has taken delivery the first of 10 Boeing 787-9s it has on order.

Configured with 320 seats in a three-class configuration, the Canadian carrier is set to deploy the aircraft on new international services, including flights from Calgary to European cities such as Dublin, London and Paris.

In addition to the new 787-9, Flight Fleets Analyzer shows that WestJet operates four 767-300ERs, 11 737 Max 8s, and 109 737 NGs.

 

WestJet also added the Boeing AnalytX digital solutions product, which will aid in the optimisation of its operations.

"Today's delivery marks a new chapter for WestJet," says the airline's president and chief executive Ed Sims. "Boeing's 787 Dreamliner is one of the most technologically advanced aircraft ever flown and is the perfect platform for our transition to a global network carrier. We look forward to bringing Canadians to the world and the world to Canada in comfort and style."

[J.O.]

Interesting they named the airplane in honour of Clive Beddoe. From what I know of the man, I not sure he’d be very supporting of this addition to the fleet.

[Super 80]

Saw the cabin on Facebook, the Economy and Plus seats sure don't look very comfortable.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, J.O. said:

Interesting they named the airplane in honour of Clive Beddoe. From what I know of the man, I not sure he’d be very supporting of this addition to the fleet.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Super 80 said:

Saw the cabin on Facebook, the Economy and Plus seats sure don't look very comfortable.

For those who want to see for themselves.

https://www.facebook.com/westjet/videos/1124036111112477/

I do however love the sales pitch for Business where he says for a little bit more than Premium.  Well here is an example of the "Little Bit More"

But to be fair, here is what otheres are charging on the same day between YYC and LHR

Air Canada

British Airways

So based on the fares, there is no doubt that WestJet will not have a  problem selling their seats even when you add in the cost of getting from LGW to the city of London.

 

 

 

 

[blues deville]

On 1/18/2019 at 6:09 AM, Super 80 said:

Saw the cabin on Facebook, the Economy and Plus seats sure don't look very comfortable.

Congrats to WS on their lastest addition however I don’t know who is designing these new lightweight airliner seats as they are certainly not built for comfort.

[CanadaEH]

12 minutes ago, blues deville said:

Congrats to WS on their lastest addition however I don’t know who is designing these new lightweight airliner seats as they are certainly not built for comfort.

Odd thing to say having not set foot on the aircraft. I'll reserve my judgement until I actually fly on it. 

[blues deville]

22 hours ago, CanadaEH said:

Odd thing to say having not set foot on the aircraft. I'll reserve my judgement until I actually fly on it. 

Well I hope they are comfortable too but I’ve had several rides on 787’s and WS isn’t the only airline using this style of light weight seat. Everything on the 787’s were/are designed and built for weight saving. Comfort is secondary. For example there’s a roof escape hatch for the flight crew vs side windows and there are only four instead of six windows in front. No window shades in cabin. All interior items such as drop down baby change tables are lightweight plastic instead of  the classic wafferboard/ aluminum style used on older aircraft. As explained to me by Boeing these parts can be replaced rather than carrying around extra non-revenue weight.

Polarized windows are very cool but still allow some light to filter through. If you’re at a window seat near an open exit door you will see there are no panels to cover the back side of the main cabin doors. You can see all the mechanical parts of the door system.

A different approach to aircraft design but it’s all done to save weight and not necessarily look pretty or be completely comfortable. Unfortunately you can only add so much padding to these new seats before they start to get too heavy. 

[Longranger]

On 1/17/2019 at 11:34 AM, Johnny said:

Here's my take on it Kip, from having a good friend who was "original equipment."  WJ played the "we are all equal" game pretty successfully, the Pilot's held their noses and groomed the Airplanes and then went home and counted their money.  The early days of big profit share cheques and fast upgrades.  Times have changed and now the WJ Pilots are quitting in droves, with many coming to AC, some going overseas and even (who would have ever guessed) Sunwing.  On a recent flight with an ex-WJ'er, he described it as a Black Culture with a tattle tail environment of "writing up" your fellow employee as outlined in the CUPE newsletter.  If you're not a good little do-bee we'll send you in for re-programming.

I have also been told that the original casual uniform was done by design, there was a feeling that having the Pilots wear the traditional double breasted Tunic with gold stripes would encourage the Pilots to feel they were above the masses. The casual Uniform and grooming Airplanes was all part of the social experiment.

Well 23 years down the road times have changed, pay is average (to well below at Encore and Swoop,)  upgrades at Mainline are a long wait and profit share cheques have dried up.  AC is hiring gangbusters with fast upgrades and we don't need knee patches on our slacks.

Next few years are going to be fun to watch, here's hoping they open the US border to Canadian Pilots.

 

 

Johnny maybe you should research your facts before using second hand information, and from CUPE newsletters?

 Grooming has recently become a more contentious issue , and whipped out of proportion first with the initial attempt with the WPPA and then through ALPA, as before that there were very few issues with it.   Since the start of WJ, grooming for pilots (with the exception of the 767/787) has always been voluntary, part of the culture of working together, when you had time.  It was also all part of the team effort to get quicker turn arounds,  and since it saved tens of millions of dollars over the years, increased profit sharing.  

Since pilots earn the most and profit sharing is based on straight time earnings, it is easy math to see they are the biggest beneficiaries of increased profit sharing not to mention on their ESP stock options etc.   Prior to the last year and a half, the profit sharing averaged over 10% of any employees straight time earnings, so not chump change by any measure.

Leave it to CUPE to talk about “ writing up” employees as how would they really know as they are new on the property and have a vested interest in creating animosity against the company.  I’ve been here for twenty years and haven’t seen that, but it’s all a matter of perspective and in that case who you talk to, so what statistics and facts do you have to back it up?

The attrition rate at WJ mainline has been and continues to be very low, just over 1%, with most of the pilots that are leaving going overseas not to AC, unless you are talking about WestJet Encore or Swoop, which is a different story.  

We used to have one date of hire list between WJ mainline and Encore for example, but now that is up in the air with ALPA , so that uncertainty has caused more Encore pilots then would have gone under the old model to leave.  Swoop is another story, as ALPA’s handling of that group, forced the company to hire off the street pilots, and the WAWCON there has caused turnover in pilots to be higher then it would have been.

The pay at WJ mainline is well beyond the “ average “ you describe,  and if you look at the total compensation, which is the only fair way to measure compensation, but not “ industry standard “ for some people,  it is very competitive with AC.

[jjj]

Lonranger,

WRT your comment about ALPA's handling of SWOOP forcing the company to hire off the street...

Let's remember what happened there. ALPA was open to talk about staffing SWOOP and the company would only do business if the union gave up their rights under the labour code. The union rightfully said no thanks.

If by refusing to play into the ridiculous terms of the company is what you mean by "handling of that group" then your comment holds water. If you're demonizing ALPA for how they played the game at that juncture then I'm not sure where you get your facts. 

Not quite sure of your intention but you make it sound like the company was the victim being forced to hire off the street. Preposterous.

JJJ

[Johnny]

Longranger, I will stand behind the post.  Don't forget we now work with ex-WJ'ers on a regular basis, the dirty laundry is being hung to dry.  If you re-read the CUPE newsletter, you'll see that it was WJ Management that has asked the FA's to 'write up' Pilots.  To CUPE's credit they are advising against it.

Pay comparable to AC, how's the 787 pay working out, or how about the Encore pay scale?