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Malcolm

All about Swoop

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It reminds me of a sign in a British post office listing various far-flung remains of the empire and guaranteed Christmas mailing dates in September.

 

 

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not the first incident and it wont be the last.  They have no ability to cover off IROPS.

 

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Europeans who've dealt with the likes of Ryanair for decades are old hat at this stuff. You get what you pay for.

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Speaking of "getting what one pays for", I recall a friend recounting his experience on a trip once back from Europe.

Booked in club class with BA in the morning, he decided to catch a midnight flight on Air Canada to arrive a little earlier. The flight in "business class" of Air Canada, which actually cost more, ended-up on an old beat-up B767 with seats that barely reclined and no screens! They did have a few beat-up DVD players, few of which actually worked, and some people did manage to get one! Then on the taxi, the flight had a mechanical problem and ended up sitting on the taxiway for several hours. The flight ended up being late arriving barely ahead of the original BA flight with its flat beds and great service! So yes, one gets what one pays for, although ironically that flight did cost more!!

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38 minutes ago, MD2 said:

Speaking of "getting what one pays for", I recall a friend recounting his experience on a trip once back from Europe.

Booked in club class with BA in the morning, he decided to catch a midnight flight on Air Canada to arrive a little earlier. The flight in "business class" of Air Canada, which actually cost more, ended-up on an old beat-up B767 with seats that barely reclined and no screens! They did have a few beat-up DVD players, few of which actually worked, and some people did manage to get one! Then on the taxi, the flight had a mechanical problem and ended up sitting on the taxiway for several hours. The flight ended up being late arriving barely ahead of the original BA flight with its flat beds and great service! So yes, one gets what one pays for, although ironically that flight did cost more!!

WOW, that is certainly relevant to the thread.?

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EVERY airline has mechanical delays and cancellations.  It is the nature of the beast.  However a airline should at least have a method to cover off the IROP.  

There are a few ways this is done. 

1) scheduleing more than a single flight ina day to a destination.  This can normally cover at least some of the passengers.

2) book seats on other airlines to get the passengers home.  This happens quite frequently.

3) Sub in another aircraft for the flight using an operational spare aircraft.  While this can be a lengthy delay it will move 100% of the passengers to their destination

Currently Swoop has precisely ZERO of these mitigating scenarios in place.

Low cost = low reliability = low chance of getting anywhere.

 

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4 hours ago, MD2 said:

Speaking of "getting what one pays for", I recall a friend recounting his experience on a trip once back from Europe.

Booked in club class with BA in the morning, he decided to catch a midnight flight on Air Canada to arrive a little earlier. The flight in "business class" of Air Canada, which actually cost more, ended-up on an old beat-up B767 with seats that barely reclined and no screens! They did have a few beat-up DVD players, few of which actually worked, and some people did manage to get one! Then on the taxi, the flight had a mechanical problem and ended up sitting on the taxiway for several hours. The flight ended up being late arriving barely ahead of the original BA flight with its flat beds and great service! So yes, one gets what one pays for, although ironically that flight did cost more!!

What year was that? 

Really I don't believe you, or hearsay at best.. but whatever... When?

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Swoop must not operate with any spares. And even if they did, the operation is so spread out any problems at one end of the country takes 5-6 hours for the hot spare to even show up.

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2 hours ago, j.k. said:

What year was that? 

Really I don't believe you, or hearsay at best.. but whatever... When?

Not that I'm trying to convince anyone of anything, but for the benefit of the board it was 2006 and yes very disappointing experience.

I understand that Air Canada has since moved those beat-up B767s to Rouge (wow joy!) and added more decent aircraft, but selling business class tickets under those conditions was a misrepresentation. The point being that if a crown corporation such as Air Canada after several decades, and as many mergers and bail-outs still had and has issues, perhaps other much smaller and newer airlines have issues too. This just for the benefit of the readership on the site that is not partial to Air Canada like some members.

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2 hours ago, MD2 said:

Not that I'm trying to convince anyone of anything, but for the benefit of the board it was 2006 and yes very disappointing experience.

I understand that Air Canada has since moved those beat-up B767s to Rouge (wow joy!) and added more decent aircraft, but selling business class tickets under those conditions was a misrepresentation. The point being that if a crown corporation such as Air Canada after several decades, and as many mergers and bail-outs still had and has issues, perhaps other much smaller and newer airlines have issues too. This just for the benefit of the readership on the site that is not partial to Air Canada like some members.

Amazing that you think what happened in 2006 has anything to do with  Swoop today.  BA in the day was the first airline to put reclining seats in their business class , other airlines followed.  Since you mentioned the 767, not so long ago there was an airline who thought they could jump into long haul International travel using some bargain basement 767s.  We all know how that worked out but the same airline today seems to have overcome those problems  but...…...

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9 hours ago, MD2 said:

They did have a few beat-up DVD players, few of which actually worked, and some people did manage to get one! 

A few DVD players eh?

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6 hours ago, runaway said:

A few DVD players eh?

Yeah, we used to have a locked overhead bin around row 5 or 6 that contained a few DVD players on the old 767s. But complaining about how the old 767 didn't have lie flat seats like BA is a bit disingenuous as none of our aircraft did, at the time. It was our Business Class product of the day, something that won awards at the time but looks quaint today.

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9 hours ago, MD2 said:

Not that I'm trying to convince anyone of anything, but for the benefit of the board it was 2006 and yes very disappointing experience.

I understand that Air Canada has since moved those beat-up B767s to Rouge (wow joy!) and added more decent aircraft, but selling business class tickets under those conditions was a misrepresentation. The point being that if a crown corporation such as Air Canada after several decades, and as many mergers and bail-outs still had and has issues, perhaps other much smaller and newer airlines have issues too. This just for the benefit of the readership on the site that is not partial to Air Canada like some members.

BA didn’t have flat beds in 2006.  AC was one of the few, if only airlines with a lie flat product across the Atlantic back then on most widebody aircraft.  The 330’s, 340’s and majority of 767’s received new interiors with the first lie flat seats in 2005. 

AC hasn’t been a crown company in 30 years.  What bailouts?

How is a disappointing flight from 13 years ago on a newly merged airline with a mixed fleet which was undergoing a refleeting at the time relevant to Swoop which is operating one type?

MD2 you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Edited by Homerun
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Gabor may be an advocate but he's no "expert", unless being completely one-sided on an issue is now considered expertise.

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4 hours ago, conehead said:

That door looks askew...

 

F9FA93BF-E412-4FF9-B698-5E15E7283C35.jpeg

Its an Old Boeing Design.  Its supposed to look screwed.

 

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7 hours ago, Homerun said:

BA didn’t have flat beds in 2006.  AC was one of the few, if only airlines with a lie flat product across the Atlantic back then on most widebody aircraft.  The 330’s, 340’s and majority of 767’s received new interiors with the first lie flat seats in 2005. 

AC hasn’t been a crown company in 30 years.  What bailouts?

How is a disappointing flight from 13 years ago on a newly merged airline with a mixed fleet which was undergoing a refleeting at the time relevant to Swoop which is operating one type?

MD2 you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

British Airways had flat beds in its business (club) class since at least early 2000s and well before Air Canada ever might have ( assuming that they do now?). The cabin was quite comfortable and the service was great.  In addition they also had first class which was even more superior. Again not sure if Air Canada has first class. And for Air Canada selling business class tickets in those B767s under those configuration and conditions was a stretch; they could have possibly passed for economy plus.

Bail-outs: There have been multiple bail-outs and financial relief for Air Canada, the last one of which came under the leadership of the current CEO in 2009 for over a Billion dollars. However the one I was referring to came after the bankruptcy of Canada 3000, after the Liberal government did not co-sign its application for 75 million loan. Likely Canada 3000 employees would not have pleased at the time to discover that the same Liberal government that did not co-sign their company's meager 75 million loan then handed-out their tax dollars to their competitor in a bail-out. Also recall at the time, in 2001, after only 13 years of ending its crown corporation status, Air Canada had accumulated as many billions (13 Billions!) in debt while it undercut its competitors to drive them out of business (Canadian, Canada 3000, Royal, Roots Air, etc.) To add perspective, Air Canada's 13 billion dollar debt at the time equalled 20% of Argentina's debt (the country) which was also bankrupt at the time.  

Lastly, in 2006, Air Canada was hardly "a newly merged airline" since the merger with Canadian took place in 1999, and it was the national carrier with vast resources and hundreds of aircraft, not to mention full backing of the federal government.

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1 hour ago, boestar said:

Its an Old Boeing Design.  Its supposed to look screwed.

 

Really? I’ve never noticed it, but I never spent any time around 737’s.

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29 minutes ago, MD2 said:

British Airways had flat beds in its business (club) class since at least early 2000s and well before Air Canada ever might have ( assuming that they do now?). The cabin was quite comfortable and the service was great.  In addition they also had first class which was even more superior. Again not sure if Air Canada has first class. And for Air Canada selling business class tickets in those B767s under those configuration and conditions was a stretch; they could have possibly passed for economy plus.

Bail-outs: There have been multiple bail-outs and financial relief for Air Canada, the last one of which came under the leadership of the current CEO in 2009 for over a Billion dollars. However the one I was referring to came after the bankruptcy of Canada 3000, after the Liberal government did not co-sign its application for 75 million loan. Likely Canada 3000 employees would not have pleased at the time to discover that the same Liberal government that did not co-sign their company's meager 75 million loan then handed-out their tax dollars to their competitor in a bail-out. Also recall at the time, in 2001, after only 13 years of ending its crown corporation status, Air Canada had accumulated as many billions (13 Billions!) in debt while it undercut its competitors to drive them out of business (Canadian, Canada 3000, Royal, Roots Air, etc.) To add perspective, Air Canada's 13 billion dollar debt at the time equalled 20% of Argentina's debt (the country) which was also bankrupt at the time.  

Lastly, in 2006, Air Canada was hardly "a newly merged airline" since the merger with Canadian took place in 1999, and it was the national carrier with vast resources and hundreds of aircraft, not to mention full backing of the federal government.

Better do some research into AC’s finances MD2.  I don’t see much in your post that is factual.

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3 hours ago, MD2 said:

British Airways had flat beds in its business (club) class since at least early 2000s and well before Air Canada ever might have ( assuming that they do now?). The cabin was quite comfortable and the service was great.  In addition they also had first class which was even more superior. Again not sure if Air Canada has first class. And for Air Canada selling business class tickets in those B767s under those configuration and conditions was a stretch; they could have

Lastly, in 2006, Air Canada was hardly "a newly merged airline" since the merger with Canadian took place in 1999, and it was the national carrier with vast resources and hundreds of aircraft, not to mention full backing of the federal government.

Air Canada and Canadian Airlines International Ltd. officially merge on January 1, 2001. 

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Every time Air Canada apologists try to defend it, they just embarrass it more...and themselves!

First, it was asserted that in 2006 British Airways did not have flat bed seats in its club class!! (very easy to check and I personally know)

Then it was that Air Canada did not have bail-outs!! (well, the last one was in 2009 for over a billion and easy to check)

Then that Air Canada was a "newly merged airline" in 2006!!! ( and therefore it was ok for them to sell business class in old B767 with seats that hardly reclined!!)

(again easy to check and see in December of 1999 Air Canada took over Canadian. How long it took to merge the operations was its own prerogative and problem. By any account, even if it was 2001, it was hardly a "newly merged airline" in 2006, whatever that means!!

 

Please stop defending Air Canada, it's getting ridiculous and boring!!!  

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