Super 80 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 It reminds me of a sign in a British post office listing various far-flung remains of the empire and guaranteed Christmas mailing dates in September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Late recovery but better late than never. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/relief-for-stranded-flyers-initially-rebooked-more-than-a-week-later-1.4568496 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 not the first incident and it wont be the last. They have no ability to cover off IROPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Europeans who've dealt with the likes of Ryanair for decades are old hat at this stuff. You get what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD2 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Speaking of "getting what one pays for", I recall a friend recounting his experience on a trip once back from Europe. Booked in club class with BA in the morning, he decided to catch a midnight flight on Air Canada to arrive a little earlier. The flight in "business class" of Air Canada, which actually cost more, ended-up on an old beat-up B767 with seats that barely reclined and no screens! They did have a few beat-up DVD players, few of which actually worked, and some people did manage to get one! Then on the taxi, the flight had a mechanical problem and ended up sitting on the taxiway for several hours. The flight ended up being late arriving barely ahead of the original BA flight with its flat beds and great service! So yes, one gets what one pays for, although ironically that flight did cost more!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 38 minutes ago, MD2 said: Speaking of "getting what one pays for", I recall a friend recounting his experience on a trip once back from Europe. Booked in club class with BA in the morning, he decided to catch a midnight flight on Air Canada to arrive a little earlier. The flight in "business class" of Air Canada, which actually cost more, ended-up on an old beat-up B767 with seats that barely reclined and no screens! They did have a few beat-up DVD players, few of which actually worked, and some people did manage to get one! Then on the taxi, the flight had a mechanical problem and ended up sitting on the taxiway for several hours. The flight ended up being late arriving barely ahead of the original BA flight with its flat beds and great service! So yes, one gets what one pays for, although ironically that flight did cost more!! WOW, that is certainly relevant to the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 He has to get approval from the WJ and Swoop social media influencers before he's allowed to post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 EVERY airline has mechanical delays and cancellations. It is the nature of the beast. However a airline should at least have a method to cover off the IROP. There are a few ways this is done. 1) scheduleing more than a single flight ina day to a destination. This can normally cover at least some of the passengers. 2) book seats on other airlines to get the passengers home. This happens quite frequently. 3) Sub in another aircraft for the flight using an operational spare aircraft. While this can be a lengthy delay it will move 100% of the passengers to their destination Currently Swoop has precisely ZERO of these mitigating scenarios in place. Low cost = low reliability = low chance of getting anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.k. Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 4 hours ago, MD2 said: Speaking of "getting what one pays for", I recall a friend recounting his experience on a trip once back from Europe. Booked in club class with BA in the morning, he decided to catch a midnight flight on Air Canada to arrive a little earlier. The flight in "business class" of Air Canada, which actually cost more, ended-up on an old beat-up B767 with seats that barely reclined and no screens! They did have a few beat-up DVD players, few of which actually worked, and some people did manage to get one! Then on the taxi, the flight had a mechanical problem and ended up sitting on the taxiway for several hours. The flight ended up being late arriving barely ahead of the original BA flight with its flat beds and great service! So yes, one gets what one pays for, although ironically that flight did cost more!! What year was that? Really I don't believe you, or hearsay at best.. but whatever... When? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Re AC 767. There are of course 2 versions, one operated by AC and one operated by Rouge.https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_Canada/Air_Canada_Boeing_767-300ER_v2.php So it would appear the passenger was on Rouge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
internet Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Swoop must not operate with any spares. And even if they did, the operation is so spread out any problems at one end of the country takes 5-6 hours for the hot spare to even show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD2 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 hours ago, j.k. said: What year was that? Really I don't believe you, or hearsay at best.. but whatever... When? Not that I'm trying to convince anyone of anything, but for the benefit of the board it was 2006 and yes very disappointing experience. I understand that Air Canada has since moved those beat-up B767s to Rouge (wow joy!) and added more decent aircraft, but selling business class tickets under those conditions was a misrepresentation. The point being that if a crown corporation such as Air Canada after several decades, and as many mergers and bail-outs still had and has issues, perhaps other much smaller and newer airlines have issues too. This just for the benefit of the readership on the site that is not partial to Air Canada like some members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 hours ago, MD2 said: Not that I'm trying to convince anyone of anything, but for the benefit of the board it was 2006 and yes very disappointing experience. I understand that Air Canada has since moved those beat-up B767s to Rouge (wow joy!) and added more decent aircraft, but selling business class tickets under those conditions was a misrepresentation. The point being that if a crown corporation such as Air Canada after several decades, and as many mergers and bail-outs still had and has issues, perhaps other much smaller and newer airlines have issues too. This just for the benefit of the readership on the site that is not partial to Air Canada like some members. Amazing that you think what happened in 2006 has anything to do with Swoop today. BA in the day was the first airline to put reclining seats in their business class , other airlines followed. Since you mentioned the 767, not so long ago there was an airline who thought they could jump into long haul International travel using some bargain basement 767s. We all know how that worked out but the same airline today seems to have overcome those problems but...…... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runaway Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 9 hours ago, MD2 said: They did have a few beat-up DVD players, few of which actually worked, and some people did manage to get one! A few DVD players eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 6 hours ago, runaway said: A few DVD players eh? Yeah, we used to have a locked overhead bin around row 5 or 6 that contained a few DVD players on the old 767s. But complaining about how the old 767 didn't have lie flat seats like BA is a bit disingenuous as none of our aircraft did, at the time. It was our Business Class product of the day, something that won awards at the time but looks quaint today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 9 hours ago, MD2 said: Not that I'm trying to convince anyone of anything, but for the benefit of the board it was 2006 and yes very disappointing experience. I understand that Air Canada has since moved those beat-up B767s to Rouge (wow joy!) and added more decent aircraft, but selling business class tickets under those conditions was a misrepresentation. The point being that if a crown corporation such as Air Canada after several decades, and as many mergers and bail-outs still had and has issues, perhaps other much smaller and newer airlines have issues too. This just for the benefit of the readership on the site that is not partial to Air Canada like some members. BA didn’t have flat beds in 2006. AC was one of the few, if only airlines with a lie flat product across the Atlantic back then on most widebody aircraft. The 330’s, 340’s and majority of 767’s received new interiors with the first lie flat seats in 2005. AC hasn’t been a crown company in 30 years. What bailouts? How is a disappointing flight from 13 years ago on a newly merged airline with a mixed fleet which was undergoing a refleeting at the time relevant to Swoop which is operating one type? MD2 you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 That door looks askew... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Swoop isn't following their legal obligations to customers: Expert by TARRAH HARVEY Posted Aug 29, 2019 8:28 pm MDT Last Updated Aug 30, 2019 at 5:29 am https://www.660citynews.com/2019/08/29/swoop-isnt-following-their-legal-obligations-to-customers-expert/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Gabor may be an advocate but he's no "expert", unless being completely one-sided on an issue is now considered expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 hours ago, conehead said: That door looks askew... Its an Old Boeing Design. Its supposed to look screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD2 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 7 hours ago, Homerun said: BA didn’t have flat beds in 2006. AC was one of the few, if only airlines with a lie flat product across the Atlantic back then on most widebody aircraft. The 330’s, 340’s and majority of 767’s received new interiors with the first lie flat seats in 2005. AC hasn’t been a crown company in 30 years. What bailouts? How is a disappointing flight from 13 years ago on a newly merged airline with a mixed fleet which was undergoing a refleeting at the time relevant to Swoop which is operating one type? MD2 you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel. British Airways had flat beds in its business (club) class since at least early 2000s and well before Air Canada ever might have ( assuming that they do now?). The cabin was quite comfortable and the service was great. In addition they also had first class which was even more superior. Again not sure if Air Canada has first class. And for Air Canada selling business class tickets in those B767s under those configuration and conditions was a stretch; they could have possibly passed for economy plus. Bail-outs: There have been multiple bail-outs and financial relief for Air Canada, the last one of which came under the leadership of the current CEO in 2009 for over a Billion dollars. However the one I was referring to came after the bankruptcy of Canada 3000, after the Liberal government did not co-sign its application for 75 million loan. Likely Canada 3000 employees would not have pleased at the time to discover that the same Liberal government that did not co-sign their company's meager 75 million loan then handed-out their tax dollars to their competitor in a bail-out. Also recall at the time, in 2001, after only 13 years of ending its crown corporation status, Air Canada had accumulated as many billions (13 Billions!) in debt while it undercut its competitors to drive them out of business (Canadian, Canada 3000, Royal, Roots Air, etc.) To add perspective, Air Canada's 13 billion dollar debt at the time equalled 20% of Argentina's debt (the country) which was also bankrupt at the time. Lastly, in 2006, Air Canada was hardly "a newly merged airline" since the merger with Canadian took place in 1999, and it was the national carrier with vast resources and hundreds of aircraft, not to mention full backing of the federal government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, boestar said: Its an Old Boeing Design. Its supposed to look screwed. Really? I’ve never noticed it, but I never spent any time around 737’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 29 minutes ago, MD2 said: British Airways had flat beds in its business (club) class since at least early 2000s and well before Air Canada ever might have ( assuming that they do now?). The cabin was quite comfortable and the service was great. In addition they also had first class which was even more superior. Again not sure if Air Canada has first class. And for Air Canada selling business class tickets in those B767s under those configuration and conditions was a stretch; they could have possibly passed for economy plus. Bail-outs: There have been multiple bail-outs and financial relief for Air Canada, the last one of which came under the leadership of the current CEO in 2009 for over a Billion dollars. However the one I was referring to came after the bankruptcy of Canada 3000, after the Liberal government did not co-sign its application for 75 million loan. Likely Canada 3000 employees would not have pleased at the time to discover that the same Liberal government that did not co-sign their company's meager 75 million loan then handed-out their tax dollars to their competitor in a bail-out. Also recall at the time, in 2001, after only 13 years of ending its crown corporation status, Air Canada had accumulated as many billions (13 Billions!) in debt while it undercut its competitors to drive them out of business (Canadian, Canada 3000, Royal, Roots Air, etc.) To add perspective, Air Canada's 13 billion dollar debt at the time equalled 20% of Argentina's debt (the country) which was also bankrupt at the time. Lastly, in 2006, Air Canada was hardly "a newly merged airline" since the merger with Canadian took place in 1999, and it was the national carrier with vast resources and hundreds of aircraft, not to mention full backing of the federal government. Better do some research into AC’s finances MD2. I don’t see much in your post that is factual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 hours ago, MD2 said: British Airways had flat beds in its business (club) class since at least early 2000s and well before Air Canada ever might have ( assuming that they do now?). The cabin was quite comfortable and the service was great. In addition they also had first class which was even more superior. Again not sure if Air Canada has first class. And for Air Canada selling business class tickets in those B767s under those configuration and conditions was a stretch; they could have Lastly, in 2006, Air Canada was hardly "a newly merged airline" since the merger with Canadian took place in 1999, and it was the national carrier with vast resources and hundreds of aircraft, not to mention full backing of the federal government. Air Canada and Canadian Airlines International Ltd. officially merge on January 1, 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD2 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Every time Air Canada apologists try to defend it, they just embarrass it more...and themselves! First, it was asserted that in 2006 British Airways did not have flat bed seats in its club class!! (very easy to check and I personally know) Then it was that Air Canada did not have bail-outs!! (well, the last one was in 2009 for over a billion and easy to check) Then that Air Canada was a "newly merged airline" in 2006!!! ( and therefore it was ok for them to sell business class in old B767 with seats that hardly reclined!!) (again easy to check and see in December of 1999 Air Canada took over Canadian. How long it took to merge the operations was its own prerogative and problem. By any account, even if it was 2001, it was hardly a "newly merged airline" in 2006, whatever that means!! Please stop defending Air Canada, it's getting ridiculous and boring!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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