Canada's "favourite" airline continues slide into mediocrity

[conehead 316]

Where did Malcolm exhibit “Schadenfreude”?

[Malcolm 995]

1 hour ago, thor said:

So buddy wants to sue WestJet. Have at it. The burden of proof is on him to prove that the flight attendant was negligent in his/her job. I’m assuming that MedLink was called and their decision is what we have to go by regardless what any other medical personal says. They assume all responsibility. 

Malcolm, next time maybe you could give both sides of the story before passing judgment. We all know media networks don’t.  Out of my respect for you please keep your Schadenfreude to yourself.

Get a life.  I   posted both sides if you are talking about the removal of the passenger including the regulations. I even posted the regs that allowed the deplaning.

[Wolfhunter 424]

1 hour ago, Kip Powick said:

There seems to be an assumption that his previous stroke and falling asleep after taking a pain killer made him ineligible to fly

Not at all, not even close and that's the point here I think. His previous stroke and NON RESPONSIVE STATE are the factors. Unless you now prepared to assert that his non responsive state was caused solely by the meds given the history here? If so, then fair game and I will agree with you. But, falling asleep is simply not the same as being non responsive. 

We don't know all the factors here to be sure, at least I don't. If, as an FA, I found someone who had their head in someone else's lap and was unresponsive, I would have asked if there was a medical condition at play here. If there was the requirement for pain meds I would have asked why. I admit to assuming facts not in evidence here.... but, I'm not that smart and I would have asked. In any case it seems not enough is known to move the discussion forward.... cheers

Edited November 5, 2018 by Wolfhunter

[Kip Powick 1,206]

 His previous stroke and NON RESPONSIVE STATE are the factors here

I understand what you are saying but the fact is ....none of us know if the fact that he had a previous stroke ever came up during this conflict.....the author of the original article has stated that fact BUT did it come up in the dialogue while he was on the airplane?????

[seeker 925]

Come on people - have we learned nothing from the thousands of other times this has happened (by "this" I mean some passenger with an agenda spouting off to the media about how they did nothing wrong and are being cruelly mistreated by the airline)?

Look, this is Westjet we're talking about, not some backwater airline from Uzbekistan.  Westjet employs highly trained, conscientious staff and is quite focused on customer service.  Sure, an individual can make a mistake but are we to believe that the FAs, the pilot and the gate staff (in consultation with their operations staff) all made the same mistake and off-loaded the guy for falling asleep?  I have no doubt that some crucial piece of information is being withheld by the passenger as he tries to get some cash.  

Even if, in the long investigation afterwards, we find that the passenger actually could have flown safely the crew had 10 minutes to decide on the most conservative course of action and did so.  We've been discussing it for a week here on the forum and still haven't figured it out to a satisfactory conclusion.

Now, the question of whether he should be refunded the cash he lost because of the deplanement is another matter.  I guess it would depend on whether he was forthright with his pre-existing medical condition and whether that would have been allowed to travel if he had disclosed everything.  But, IMO, there's no point in armchair quarterbacking a fellow airline crew.

[Malcolm 995]

2 hours ago, seeker said:

Come on people - have we learned nothing from the thousands of other times this has happened (by "this" I mean some passenger with an agenda spouting off to the media about how they did nothing wrong and are being cruelly mistreated by the airline)?

Look, this is Westjet we're talking about, not some backwater airline from Uzbekistan.  Westjet employs highly trained, conscientious staff and is quite focused on customer service.  Sure, an individual can make a mistake but are we to believe that the FAs, the pilot and the gate staff (in consultation with their operations staff) all made the same mistake and off-loaded the guy for falling asleep?  I have no doubt that some crucial piece of information is being withheld by the passenger as he tries to get some cash.  

Even if, in the long investigation afterwards, we find that the passenger actually could have flown safely the crew had 10 minutes to decide on the most conservative course of action and did so.  We've been discussing it for a week here on the forum and still haven't figured it out to a satisfactory conclusion.

Now, the question of whether he should be refunded the cash he lost because of the deplanement is another matter.  I guess it would depend on whether he was forthright with his pre-existing medical condition and whether that would have been allowed to travel if he had disclosed everything.  But, IMO, there's no point in armchair quarterbacking a fellow airline crew.

I agree and that is why I posted the Regs. that allowed WestJet to make that call.

[mo32a 344]

I wish I could fall asleep on airplanes.

[boestar 850]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

I agree and that is why I posted the Regs. that allowed WestJet to make that call.

except that if you are unwilling or unable to operate the emergency exit you will be reseated elsewhere and someone else can take your place.  I have see this done several times. where the person was unable to handle the exit. (or just didnt want the responsibility) swapped seats with another passenger.  problem solved

Sleeping has never been a factor for me on any flight as I mentioned earlier.  i have dozed off before boarding is complete and slept through the briefings several times.

 

[Maverick 261]

49 minutes ago, boestar said:

except that if you are unwilling or unable to operate the emergency exit you will be reseated elsewhere and someone else can take your place.  I have see this done several times. where the person was unable to handle the exit. (or just didnt want the responsibility) swapped seats with another passenger.  problem solved

Sleeping has never been a factor for me on any flight as I mentioned earlier.  i have dozed off before boarding is complete and slept through the briefings several times.

 

I have as well but as we know, this guy was UNRESPONSIVE for a period of time. I'll say it again, if WJ had allowed an unresponsive person to fly and they had died then this thread would be completely different. Could it have be handled differently? Probably but the ambulance chasers smelled a lawsuit and here we are.

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Maverick

[MD2 131]

I take issue with the topic of this thread as well, Canada's favourite airline is Porter not WestJet!

On a more serious note though, in a broad sense the privacy and dignity of an individual seems to be eroding more and more.  In the beginning, it was one's family and friends, as one chose, who would be put into the circle of trust. That circle had to grow. First it was the doctor and the police, then the lawyer, the nurse, the dentist, the lab technician, the real estate agent, the utility company, the captain, the bus driver, now the FAs, soon the florist, the hair-dresser, etc. who absolutely have to know everything about the individual in order to do their jobs and in accordance with some regulation that someone wrote! If the person has a companion, that person will see to their well-being and "ask" for help if needed. Doesn't matter if one is on medication or addicted to drugs, alcohol, etc. it simply is NOT everyone's "job" to know about it, period.

[UpperDeck 349]

Can I still fly?

Yes! You can. There is no formal medical guidance on how long after a TIA or a stroke you should wait before doing so, so do ensure you check with your airline prior to booking.

Most carriers advise NOT to fly until 10 days after a TIA, or 21 days after a stroke. Some airlines recommend waiting until 3 months after a stroke, if it has left you with some residual symptoms.

 

This incident has been reported in numerous locations and I found it of interest that the passenger himself disclosed AT SOME POINT that he had a recent stoke. He later added; "It was a small stroke" but he had a resulting physical impairment. It is stated that he was assessed by paramedics. Wolfhunter has some expertise in this area but I was told that you should not fly until at least three months after suffering a stroke. I found the article from which the above extract was taken and which was authored by a physician. 

I don't know that we can blame this publicity on " ambulance chasers" ( per Maverick) but I suspect this fellow will have trouble recovering if Westjet sticks to its guns......undisclosed medical condition and drug-induced stupour with impaired consciousness.

Please don't suggest that this is akin to " falling asleep on an aircraft".

Edited November 5, 2018 by UpperDeck
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[J.O. 923]

Excellent point, UD. If this guy had been punted because his intoxicant came in a liquid form rather than from a pill bottle, would anyone here be questioning the decision to remove him from the flight when he became non-responsive?