Guest Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 25 minutes ago, Newman said: Wait till the experts figure out that absolutely everything has an "inside threat." only if they become more "introspective" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 There are thousands of employees that have access to aircraft overnight in relative seclusion. There are mitigating policies but for an employee they are easily circumvented. Generally speaking we are mostly of sound mind and don’t consider taking an aircraft for a joy ride. This guy had something happen that triggered something in his brain that’s said hey let’s go out with a bang. There may have been no indications to friends, family or coworkers that he was on the edge. He went out on his terms in what he considered a blade of glory. One last blast. I am saddened it came to this end but damn. What a way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Too bad it cost an aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 22 minutes ago, Kip Powick said: Too bad it cost an aircraft. but damn lucky that he only chose to kill himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Newman said: Wait till the experts figure out that absolutely everything has an "inside threat." Exactly. The biggest threat in a hospital would be someone who works there and has a badge, biggest threat at a nuclear power plant would be a nuclear power plant worker, biggest threat for dropping toxic agents into a water supply - water plant workers, etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 56 minutes ago, Kip Powick said: Too bad it cost an aircraft. It was just a Dash 8, not like anybody will miss it. That's a joke, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 FBI agent dancing with a gun. https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/06/03/fbi-agent-gun-nightclub-dancing.hln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanishing point Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 hour ago, seeker said: It was just a Dash 8, not like anybody will miss it. That's a joke, obviously. You should Google what a “joke” really means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 10 hours ago, vanishing point said: You should Google what a “joke” really means Let me explain it for you: The joke is me suggesting that a Dash 8 is not a valuable asset and an important aircraft in the airline world. Since this is obviously not true - it's a joke. According to my research this type of joke is considered to be irony - the intended meaning is opposite of literal meaning. Feel better now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanishing point Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Do you feel this is a matter to joke about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 47 minutes ago, seeker said: Let me explain it for you: I'm suggesting that a Dash 8 is not a valuable asset and an important aircraft in the airline world. Since this is obviously not true - that's the joke. According to my research this type of joke is considered to be irony - the intended meaning is opposite of literal meaning. Feel better now? It appears the joke is on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, vanishing point said: Do you feel this is a matter to joke about? Please try to follow along. boester said: I am saddened it came to this end but damn. What a way to go. Kip said: Too bad it cost an aircraft. I said: It's only a Dash 8 so nobody will miss it. If you think this is joking about a lost life you have comprehension problems. In any case I explained it to you; irony - the intended meaning is the opposite of the literal meaning and the subject of the joke isn't even the guy but the airplane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Foxtrot Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 I have been wondering...... are aircraft insured against theft ? I mean really, how many large aircraft ever get stolen ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Horizon lost a Q400 which I’m sure is fully insured for all occasions. The real issue here is mental health and how it can easily be missed or hidden even from your closest family members. From the ATC tapes this individual doesn’t sound like he’s ill in fact perhaps it was a bi-polar issue and easily corrected. I have a pilot friend, one of the sharpest I know, diagnosed at mid-career but got the help he needed due to a good circle of family and friends. He did some crazy things too but never stole an airplane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon The Loon Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/13/us/utah-plane-crash/index.html Suicide by plane ... continued No joking matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 FBI recover data recorders from crash site. https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/fbi-recovers-recorders-from-crashed-horizon-q400-451092/?cmpid=NLC|FGFG|FGFIN-2018-0814-GLOB&sfid=70120000000taAh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Will be very curious to see some analysis of the flight maneuvers - what limitations were exceeded, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 28 minutes ago, seeker said: Will be very curious to see some analysis of the flight maneuvers - what limitations were exceeded, etc. Probably a good chance that airplane would have been a parts department had it somehow landed safely. What a story that would have been? I would imagine several limitations were exceeded and I guess he forgot the real airplane didn’t have a game “reset” button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobcaygeon Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Why would he even care if he even thought about it? Even if he wasn't planning to crash it I wouldn't think that would be on my radar. It's a piece of metal/composite, etc. Nothing in a Dash 8 is anything of significance. It's all easily replaceable and you could have that era of Q400 on the line in a very short time. Like it or not there are a **bleep** load of aircraft out there flying that have been barrel rolled at some point in their lives. Only the stupid pilots actually openly boast about it or record it on video and then show it off after a few beers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo32a Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Regarding security, perhaps the aircraft could be speed limited to 15k or so and the pilots would get a code sequence to enter on their flight plan to fully enable the aircraft. That way maintenance could still maneuver the aircraft on the ground but would not be able to take off. Or have a maintenance code as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I think this whole SEA security issue is getting out of hand. Adding any kind of speed limiting device to aircraft is going to open a whole series of operational issues and unnecessary costs. Planes are parked on airport ramps all around the world, day and night. At any airport south of the border they are refered to as “God’s hangar”. Hire some extra security staff. One employee should never be working around aircraft alone at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanishing point Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Unfortunately, any upgrades to an airplane such as that would require money to be spent. The fight as to who will pay for that would be long and non-productive. IMHO, I don’t think any kind of security policy change could be enacted to prevent this from happening again. Richard Russell had all the authorization he needed to perform his duties and allow him access to aircraft. It was his state of mind that forced him to carry out this event. As previously mentioned, the mental health issues have to be addressed so that anyone contemplating a repeat of this incident (or something similar) won’t actually go through with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I’m sure we will learn more details about the sequence of events prior this plane being stolen and flown into the ground. What’s interesting is how Horizon had only this one employee on duty near their maintenance area. With most line maintenance work completed at night near or in a hangar, it’s amazing no one saw him repositioning the Q400, then starting the engines and taxiing away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Foxtrot Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Or how about we just realize that this is a one off event. Stop treating airline employees like criminals, even though they are totally innocent, and get on with our jobs. Do not give the morons fuel for thier fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I didn't realize Quote Cantwell also remarked that the fact the incident occurred at Sea-Tac, which is notable for being one of the few large US airports to require full screening for all employees who work in the sterile area, demonstrates the need “to continually adapt security measures to meet new threats.” No wonder the hounds are now in full cry. Quote US lawmaker calls for security review following Sea-Tac plane theft Aug 17, 2018 Ben Goldstein The crash of a stolen Horizon Air Bombardier Q400 turboprop Aug. 10 at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport (Sea-Tac) is drawing scrutiny from US lawmakers about aviation security and airport employee screening. In an Aug. 13 letter to the leadership of the Senate Commerce Committee, Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Washington) called on Chairman John Thune (R-South Dakota) and Ranking Member Bill Nelson (D-Florida) to convene a hearing on the incident, writing that it “exposed an issue with our nation’s airport security protocols.” “A hearing would provide the Committee with an important opportunity to hear from the agencies and stakeholders directly involved in airport security,” wrote Cantwell, adding, “The Transportation Security Administration, Department of Homeland Security, airlines and airport operators ... all could offer valuable insight to the members of the Committee.” Cantwell also remarked that the fact the incident occurred at Sea-Tac, which is notable for being one of the few large US airports to require full screening for all employees who work in the sterile area, demonstrates the need “to continually adapt security measures to meet new threats.” She also commented that she is interested in exploring how technology could help secure aircraft that are not in service from airport workers who may have access to them as part of their duties. Previous efforts from Congress, including the House-passed Aviation Employee Screening and Security Enhancement Act, would instruct the FAA to study the cost and feasibility of implementing biometric identification and other security technologies.The US Federal Bureau of Investigation is leading an investigation into the incident in cooperation with the National Transportation Safety Board and several other federal and local agencies. Lawmakers have been concerned with insider threats to aviation for years, following a series of incidents in which former or current airport employees were identified as members of terrorist groups. In February 2017, the House Homeland Security Committee released a comprehensive report detailing the threat posed by aviation employees to airport and aircraft security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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