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ISIS and Terrorism

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Islamic State: Who is taking back foreigners who joined?

By Reality Check team BBC News

As United States forces withdraw from their positions in northern Syria, and Turkish forces move in, the fate of thousands of Islamic State group prisoners remains unclear.

The detainees and their families - held by Kurdish-led forces - include foreigners from various parts of the world.

The US has called on foreign states to repatriate their nationals, accusing European nations of failing to do so.Getty

The US has pressed France, Germany, and other European nations to take back captured IS fighters, but they did not want them and refused.
Press statement
US White House

So, how many foreign nationals are being held by Kurdish-led forces and have any countries taken them back?

Islamic State group prisoners are being held in a number of camps in northern Syria.

 

By far the largest is at al-Hol, with 70,000 people, more than 90% of them women and children, of whom 11,000 are foreign nationals.

Map of northern Syria

Additionally, some 12,000 suspected IS fighters are held in seven prisons in north-east Syria, of whom about 4,000 are estimated by Human Rights Watch to be foreigners (that is, neither Syrian nor Iraqi).

A US government report published in August has a lower figure for foreign adult combatants held in northern Syria - 2,000, originating from 50 countries.

Of these, about 800 are from European nations while the rest are from the Middle East, north Africa or Asia.

To put that into context, a study last year by King's College's International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation estimated more than 41,000 foreign nationals had joined IS in Iraq and Syria between April 2013 and June 2018.

Has anyone taken back their nationals?

The United Nations has said countries should take responsibility for their citizens and take them back if not charged.

Many countries have been reluctant to do so, worried about public opinion and the legal challenges of dealing with citizens who joined IS.

Human Rights Watch has described government-facilitated repatriations of foreign nationals as "piecemeal."

It says more than 1,200 foreign nationals - mainly children - have been repatriated from both Syria and Iraq to Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Russia, Kosovo, and Turkey.

But other nations have taken back only very small numbers:

  • France: 18 children
  • US: 16 adults and children
  • Germany: fewer than 10
  • Australia: eight children
  • Sweden: seven children
  • Norway: five children

In some cases, foreign nationals have been transferred to Iraqi jurisdiction and tried in that country's courts. Earlier this year, four Frenchmen were sentenced to death in Iraq in a judicial process heavily criticised at the time.

Some foreign governments have revoked citizenship to prevent a return - for example in the case of Shamima Begum, from the UK, who is being held in a camp in Syria.

Far larger numbers of foreigners who joined IS are likely to have made their own way home before the fall of the group this year.

Returning European nationals

Voluntary and state-facilited returns

*Minors aged 17 and under
Source: International Centre for Study of Radicalisation (ICSR) July 2019

King's College's International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation estimates the numbers globally to be between 7,712 and 8,202.

This includes both voluntary returns as well as government-facilitated repatriations, although it adds the latter are likely to be minimal.

Joanna Cook and Gina Vale, co-authors of the study, told BBC News: "Many governments appear more willing to facilitate the return of minors, particularly vulnerable ones like orphans, than the return of adult detainees."

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2 hours ago, Moon The Loon said:

Wonder how the War Crimes Tribunal will regard POTUS. USA not being signatory to the convention notwithstanding...

What actions under his command do you feel would constitute a war crime?

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The Kurds now have better things to do than act as a proxy jailor for our citizens.... they may just release all of them, I would in their position.  

Maybe we should just keep doing this over and over (and over) again until people realize that the honourable way is usually the right way. Some things are complicated and some aren't.... this ain't. 

 

Edited by Wolfhunter

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2 hours ago, Airband said:

What actions under his command do you feel would constitute a war crime?

Turning on his Kurdish base that was instrumental in the fight against ISIS. What other group in the next 100 years will trust America to aid them in their resistance to human tragedy?

 

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46 minutes ago, Moon The Loon said:

Turning on his Kurdish base that was instrumental in the fight against ISIS.

Poor form certainly, but don't think it meets the threshold to be considered a war crime.

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6 hours ago, Airband said:

Poor form certainly

More like insanity IMO.

Anyone who was of the"let em rot" or "I wouldn't lift a finger" opinion has little cause for complaint here if these guys are released..... there is a good chance these folks are about to get a well deserved lesson in "what did you think was going to happen." I predict they will learn nothing from this lesson.

Edited by Wolfhunter

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it's starting, as you predicted.

‘It’s craziness here’: Kurdish forces struggle to contain world’s unwanted ISIS prisoners in Syria

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BY STEWART BELL GLOBAL NEWS
Posted October 11, 2019 5:28 am
Updated October 11, 2019 11:01 am
 WHAT: Syrian Kurdish forces can’t guard camps where Canadian ISIS members are held if they have to fight Turkey

The unrest began when hardliners at Syria’s biggest camp for female ISIS detainees gathered in a tent, allegedly to whip a woman as punishment for defying their puritanical code.

Kurdish soldiers arrested those responsible, but as they led the prisoners away, more black-clad women congregated, chanting “God is great,” index fingers jabbing at the hot morning sky.

“Jihad,” one shouted.

“Oppressors,” another said in English.

When the demonstrators wouldn’t disperse, more troops came running. Aiming over the women’s heads, they fired bursts from their rifles. Then two armoured vehicles arrived, blasting rounds from their gun turrets.

By the time the shooting stopped, a woman was dead. Medecins Sans Frontieres said it had treated four more for gunshot wounds, and the security forces lamented the deteriorating conditions at the camp.

 Canadian government not willing to take back its citizens ‘not respectful’: Syrian official

A city of white tents behind a security fence, Al-Hawl camp houses more than 70,000 women and children captured during the final battles against ISIS that ended six months ago.

Thousands of them are foreigners that their own countries, including Canada, won’t take back. So the Kurds, having lost 11,000 fighters to defeat ISIS, have been left alone to detain the world’s most unwanted.

It was already an overwhelming responsibility, and now the Kurds have been dragged into a new conflict with NATO ally Turkey, which, following a nod from U.S. President Donald Trump, launched an offensive into northern Syria this week.

Canada denounced the invasion but has not done its part to ease the burden on the Kurds by repatriating any of the roughly 40 Canadians held at ISIS detainee camps, according to Kurdish authorities.

A week before Turkey attacked, Mustafa Bali sat behind his desk at a military base in Ayn Issa, lamenting the Canadian government’s inaction on a critical global national security issue.

“Those Canadian citizens who came here, they came to kill us and they came to kill our kids and to destroy our towns,” said Bali, spokesman for the Syrian Democratic Forces.

“And the moment that we arrested them and had them in our prisons or our camps, we were saving the Canadian people in Canada. We were preventing them from doing any terrorist attacks.

“So doing nothing towards those citizens, that’s really not respectful for the sacrifice that we have done,” Bali said.

 Why Turkey is attacking Kurd forces in Syria

The SDF had won a hard-fought peace in northern Syria, having finished off the so-called caliphate and imprisoned roughly 100,000 ISIS fighters and their families.

The Turkish offensive ended the calm and brought new urgency to the question of the ISIS captives. Kurdish authorities said in interviews that an attack would force them to pull their troops away from the ISIS prisons and camps to defend the border, raising the risk of escapes.

On Friday, the SDF reported that women at Al-Hawl had started riots in an attempt to escape.

About a dozen and a half Canadians and their two dozen children are detained by the Kurdish forces. That’s not a huge number, but taken together, with every other country that has abandoned its ISIS members to the Kurds, Canada is not helping with its inaction.

During a visit to Syria last week, Global News and two researchers interviewed several Canadian detainees. None had even spoken to any Canadian officials, and Kurdish authorities said Canada had long ago halted talks about bringing them back to Canada.

“The Canadian citizens who are here, they are six men and 12 women and some kids so when we talk about Canada … it’s as big as 10 million metres squared. It’s a very big country compared to our country,” Bali said.

“I’m just surprised how a big country like Canada cannot take six or 12 citizens to their country.”

The world’s seeming disregard for the plight of the Kurds was on full display at Al-Hawl camp, where the SDF has been battling to control ISIS women determined to enforce their stark version of Islamic law on the population.

“The situation is really getting worse,” Bali said.

The women have been encouraged by a recent audio address in which ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi called on his supporters to free the women from what he called the “prisons of humiliation,” officials said.

The ISIS propaganda arm Amaq claimed in a statement that an Oct. 9 attack on SDF positions in Raqqa was a “response to the assault on female prisoners in the camps.”

“They have nothing without all the women and they know that, too,” said Kimberly Polman, a Canadian who was detained at Al-Hawl camp but has since been moved to a different location.

The Canadians and other westerners at Al-Hawl are kept in a foreigners’ annex, the scene of the Sept. 30 shootings, which occurred during a visit by Global News, Prof. Amarnath Amarasingam of Queen’s University and Leah West, a national security law expert at the Norman Paterson School of International Affairs.

Days earlier, a dismembered body was found in a septic tank at Al-Hawl, and the body of a 20-year-old was later found with 16 stab wounds, an official said. A 14-year-old was murdered last month, allegedly for not wearing a niqab. Guards have reportedly been stabbed. Kurds call the camp a “ticking time bomb.”

“I think it was pretty clear from our experience in Al-Hawl that there’s a small subset of women who kind of run the show at the camp, who are very much kind of overpowering a lot of the other women in the camp, policing what they wear, policing what they can say, policing how they act,” Amarasingam said.

Left to fester, it will only get worse, he said, but there is a solution: the four dozen countries with nationals at the camp, including Canada, can evacuate their citizens and bring them home to stand trial for the crimes of ISIS.

The foreign minister for the administration that controls northeast Syria, Abdulkarim Omar, said in an interview that the Canadian government was the first to contact Kurdish authorities about its captured citizens. But since a meeting almost two years ago to discuss the details of repatriation, Canada has halted those discussions without explanation, he said.

“The government is aware of some Canadian citizens currently detained in Syria. There is no legal obligation to facilitate their return,” said Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale’s spokesman Scott Bardsley.

Former Canadian Security Intelligence Service analyst Jessica Davis said that while it was understandable Canadians would not want the detainees brought home, politics and emotion had clouded policy-making.

“The reality is that these individuals are Canada’s problem, yesterday, today and tomorrow. If they show up at our consulates or embassies, they will be a very real problem.

“If they help to reconstitute the Islamic State, they will be an even bigger one. And if they conduct terrorist attacks and take more lives, that will be on us,” she wrote on Twitter.

   At Al-Hawl camp in northern Syria, children watch as women confront Kurdish guards in a confrontation that quickly turned violent. Stewart Bell

With its rows and rows of tents and water tanks, Al-Hawl looks like an endless desert campground, one populated by children.

They are everywhere.

A blond-haired boy with a bandage on his eye. A toddler taking shelter in the shade of a tent flap. A little girl gripping a teddy bear. Women carrying babies and pushing strollers. Even as the women stood together to defy the camp guards, children were at their sides.

“Canada can and should do more to protect the rights of these children, especially those who are Canadians,” said Kathy Vandergrift, chair of the Canadian Coalition for the Rights of Children.

Because so many of the foreign children were born in ISIS-controlled areas, they lack proof of their identity, which has made governments hesitant to take them back.

Security concerns and the lack of domestic programs to rehabilitate and reintegrate children raised under ISIS have also made countries reluctant to repatriate them.

As a result, they have been left in an environment that seems like a factory for producing the next generation of extremists.

 Turkey says it will be responsible for ISIS prisoners in Syria ‘safe zone’

“We have those women in our hands, and every day, they are taking care of the kids, how to make them ISIS, how to make them follow ISIS ideology,” said Bali, the SDF spokesman.

The hardline women at Al-Hawl have recreated the ISIS system inside the camp, using religious police called hisbah to enforce their rules, Kurdish officials said.

The fatal shooting last week occurred after camp guards tried to break up a sitting of a hisbah court, they said. Thirty-nine women were put under investigation.

“They take these women because they want to learn Qur’an, that’s it,” a detainee protested in English following the arrests. “We can’t read Qur’an in our tents?”

There were unconfirmed allegations women were armed with handguns.

“It’s craziness here!!!!” a Canadian detainee inside the camp wrote in a message to her family following the shootings. “Please tell Canada we need to leave here ASAP!!!”

Stewart.Bell@globalnews.ca

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On 10/9/2019 at 9:19 PM, Moon The Loon said:

Turning on his Kurdish base that was instrumental in the fight against ISIS. What other group in the next 100 years will trust America to aid them in their resistance to human tragedy?

 

Looks like the troops will end up in Saudi

The deployment is part of what the US has described as defensive moves following the attack on Saudi Arabia's oil facilities last month [File: Massoud Hossaini/Reuters] [The Associated Press]

The Pentagon said on Friday it has approved the deployment of 3,000 additional US troops and military hardware to Saudi Arabia, boosting the country's defences after attacks on its oil installations. 

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Quote

The move came after Trump, in yet another decisive phone call that probably will be locked away, spoke with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Trump’s decision was to have the United States accede to a NATO ally’s invasion of a de facto U.S. protectorate—an invasion that has been long in the making and is expressly designed to gobble up a crucial U.S. ally.

This sounds crazy and it is. But before you turn on your cable news show to find all manner of pundits filtering this Alice-in-Wonderland development through the narrow prism of a domestic news cycle, let me assure you of the following. It has nothing to do with Trump’s manifold domestic crises or the fact that his Twitter feed now resembles that of a homeless man barking at oncoming traffic. What is happening now derives from the inherent contradictions built right into America’s war on terror that are coming to the fore and threatening to precipitate the very thing that the fight against ISIS was meant to reduce.

Since 2014, the Pentagon has disproportionately relied upon one faction of armed Kurdish guerrillas who, in a sticky little turn of fate, have been fighting the Turkish state for over 40 years. Ankara has been none too pleased that America’s preferred battering ram against jihadism has a long history of blowing up Turkish army bases and police stations, albeit on secular Marxisant grounds rather than apocalyptic religious ones.

Before the rise of ISIS, the U.S. even agreed with Turkey’s assessment of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, or PKK as it is known by its acronym, which is why this organization is still a designated terrorist entity in Washington. Well, needs must. When Mosul fell to the black-clad head-loppers, the U.S. cast about looking for a viable proxy force to beat them back in their headquarters and outlying areas in Syria.

At first the U.S. tried repurposing various elements of the Free Syrian Army for this task, but that program proved an embarrassing farce, mainly because the (mostly Arab) Syrian insurgents wanted to overthrow the genocidal Assad regime in Damascus, not act as Delta Force’s Foreign Legion east of the Euphrates River. The Pentagon soon found the most capable and reliable proxy going was the YPG, the Syrian affiliate of the PKK, which was under existential threat from ISIS’ onslaught and shrewdly realized that having the world’s only superpower behind you is a good way of pursuing your political ends through fire and steel.

Under the canopy of F-18s, the YPG has stretched across a vast swath of northeast Syria, acting as the Kurdish janissaries of America’s anti-ISIS mission. The Kurds of what is known as “Rojava,” or Syrian Kurdistan, thus engaged in their own nation-building exercise on the ruins of ISIS’ and as a direct function of America’s counterterrorism campaign.This has rattled Turkey to no end, which is why it has previously mounted incursions into other parts of northern Syria, west of the Euphrates, such as Afrin, to expel the YPG and establish its own buffer zone along the Syrian-Turkish border.

“It’s as if we sent al Qaeda into Mexico to fight the cartels,” is how one now-former Turkish security official once put it to me. “How would the U.S. like that on its doorstep?”

The Mad Hatter's Tea Party

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I'm convinced that people don't understand the complexity and magnitude of the problem here and don't even care until they are forced to. It's a bit like global warming in the sense that installing solar panels on your roof is like thinking you can see all of Disney World in a 20 minute coffee break. Nothing is simple here, it's a tough part of the world to play politics in; especially if you are using western standards.

POOF, and just like that, 1000 foreign ISIS detainees are no longer "rotting over there" and Canada gets first dibs on the 400,000 refugees. Early days, enjoy the show:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/syria-isis-supporters-escape-camp-kurds

When all the ISIS folks are out and about again, I'll be asking a simple question.... bet y'all can guess what it is eh?

Edited by Wolfhunter

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3 hours ago, Fido said:

Withdrawing US forces.

How many are there?  I have not been able to find out.

How many troops do we have in Syria?
The U.S. currently has about 1,000 troops in Syria.4 days ago

As Trump withdraws U.S. forces from northern Syria, his administration scrambles to respond

 

 
 
 
 
 
Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper spoke on "Face the Nation" Oct. 13 about reports of Turkish-backed fighters committing acts of violence in Syria. (Reuters)
Oct. 13, 2019 at 7:58 p.m. MDT

President Trump’s decision to withdraw U.S. troops from northern Syria, where they had long kept an uneasy peace among competing forces, left the region in upheaval Sunday and the administration scrambling to respond to fast-moving events.

In urgent meetings and telephone conferences, top national security officials studied often-conflicting accounts of what was happening on the ground. In public appearances, Cabinet secretaries denied that the United States had “abandoned” its Syrian Kurdish allies to invading Turkish ­forces and threatened severe sanctions against Ankara.

“This is total chaos,” a senior administration official said at midday, speaking on the condition of anonymity about the confusing situation in Syria.

 

Although “the Turks gave guarantees to us” that U.S. forces would not be harmed, the official said, Syrian militias allied with them “are running up and down roads, ambushing and attacking vehicles,” putting American ­forces — as well as civilians — in danger even as they withdraw. The militias, known as the Free Syrian Army, “are crazy and not reliable.”

AD
 

At the same time, the official said, the Islamic State is active in the area, and there are reports that Russian and Syrian forces are moving in as well. “We obviously could not continue,” said the official, who called the situation “a total s---storm.”

Amid reports of Islamic State militants escaping prisons in the area, a U.S. official confirmed that the American forces had been unable to carry out plans to move several dozen high-value detainees to more secure locations, as first reported by the New York Times. One official said that multiple Kurdish-run detention facilities were now unguarded and that the U.S. military believed hundreds of detainees had escaped.

 

Trump decided late Saturday to remove all of about 1,000 U.S. troops from the area within weeks, as a Turkish invasion targeting U.S.-allied Syrian Kurdish fighters against the Islamic State expanded deep into Syrian territory, cutting U.S. supply lines and endangering American forces.

AD
 
 
 
 

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22 minutes ago, Marshall said:

to remove all of about 1,000 U.S. troops

Then what is the big deal?

I doubt that 1,000 troops would be enough to provide security for themselves against everyone else.

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13 hours ago, Fido said:

Then what is the big deal?

I doubt that 1,000 troops would be enough to provide security for themselves against everyone else.

exactly

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Under the Liberals, Canadian government support for Kurds fighting ISIL ground to a halt

By Justin Ling

Canada has done plenty to “help, support and strengthen our local allies” in the Middle East, Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau said Friday. But over the past four years, Trudeau’s government has worked to slowly end support to those partners, specifically to the Kurdish people.

According to government reports and interviews with private industry, Canada has frustrated efforts to sell weapons to our Kurdish allies, while failing to deliver long-promised military aid.

Since 2014, Canada and other allies have partnered with local groups like the Kurds to fight the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant. Canada began working to train and equip the Peshmerga in Iraq, while its fighter jets supported the YPG in Syria. Under the then-Conservative government, Canadian military aircraft carried equipment into Iraq, while private companies began exporting arms, mostly to the Peshmerga — nearly $2 million worth in 2015, and $1.3 million in 2016.

With the Liberals in power, that help ground to a halt, even as the Kurds were waging a costly fight against ISIL’s strongholds in the area. Trudeau immediately halted Canada’s bombing campaign in Syria. And while special forces had been training Kurdish fighters in Erbil, the Trudeau government put a halt to that mission in 2018 and diverted the resources towards the central Iraqi government in Baghdad.

North Eastern Arms, an Ontario-based rifle manufacturer, was one of the bigger exporters to the Kurds.

“We, under the Conservatives, shipped about 2,000 rifles over there,” said Jeff Hussey, former president of the company, which has since been acquired by a larger defence contractor.

Hussey said the Kurdish Regional Government in Iraq subsequently placed orders for 18,000 more rifles. But the new Liberal government required they get approval from both Kurdistan and Iraq — which he did. Hussey supplied to the National Post proof that both Erbil and Baghdad signed off on the deal, but he said that didn’t sway Ottawa. “They basically slow played us.”

In this case, and others, the Canadian government hasn’t explicitly denied the request for export permits, but it hasn’t approved them either.

A representative from a second arms company that had done business with the Iraqi Kurdish government confirmed similar problems with their export permits.

'Nobody can stop us': Ignoring Trump, Erdogan orders Kurdish fighters in Syria to drop weapons and withdraw

Iraqi Kurds invite Canada to help train, equip military after being frozen out

Nearly three years after Trudeau's promise, Canadian weapons for Kurds still sit in a Montreal warehouse

Global Affairs refused to comment on any aspect of these sales, writing in a statement that “permit applications, and decisions related to applications, are confidential. Global Affairs Canada does not release this type of information.”

The Canadian government also didn’t send the aid it had explicitly promised. In 2016, Defence Minister Harjit Singh Sajjan committed $9.5 million in military aid to Kurdistan, including rifles and mortars. The government procured the weapons, but they have sat in a Montreal warehouse ever since.

The Department of National Defence confirmed this week that the weapons haven’t moved, and it appears that won’t change.

A core part of Thursday’s deal between President Donald Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to end fighting in Northern Syria would require the YPG to hand over all their Western-supplied heavy weaponry. While Canada did not supply the YPG, the Turks have long-held the position that any arms sent from the West to the Kurds would end up supply the PKK, a Kurdish separatist group in southern Turkey that has been listed as a terrorist organization by Canada. It’s on that basis that Erdogan has lobbied hard for the West to end all military aid and weapons sales.

Turkey has even supplied a photograph claiming to show Canadian rifles in the hands of the PKK, though it’s hard to verify those claims.

Canadian export permits forbid the Kurds from sharing the weapons with any other group, beyond the official military and police of the Kurdistan Regional Government.

Even as the Trudeau government halted new military exports to the Iraqi Kurds, it has expanded them significantly to Turkey. Canada sold just $4 million in military goods to Ankara in 2016 — that number jumped to more than $115 million in 2018.

The issue has become pressing after Trump pulled American forces out of Northern Syria, leaving a vacuum for Turkey to go after its Kurdish rivals. The American withdrawal has also seemed to inspire ISIL to regroup.

The Post asked Trudeau about Canada’s Kurdish allies while he campaigned in Whitby, Ont., on Friday. The Liberal leader took the opportunity to condemn Turkish incursions into Syria and express concern over the Washington-Ankara deal that will see Turkey control a 30-kilometre stretch of land along the border in Northern Syria. There’s no guarantee the YPG will respect the deal, and Turkish shelling of the border continued Friday.

Trudeau said that, upon being elected in 2015, he decided that “Canada would not, anymore, have any engagements in Syria and we would focus our help in Iraq, and that’s exactly what we’ve done.”

Canada’s condemnation came with an announcement last week that it would temporarily suspended new export permits to Turkey because of its invasion of Northern Syria. Global Affairs confirmed Friday that would only apply to new export permits, not existing ones.

In his statement, Trudeau never once mentioned the Kurdish people or their government by name.

That’s in direct contrast to French President Emmanuel Macron, one of Trudeau’s liberal and internationalist brethren. Macron’s foreign minister Jean-Yves Le Drian travelled to Erbil to relay a message of support alongside his Kurdish counterpart.

Hussey has largely given up on Canada. “We used to brag to the Americans and the British about how great Canada was to do business in,” he said, adding that the problem isn’t just with the Middle East. Ottawa also held up another $6 million contract with Guatemala, he said. The second defence contractor confirmed that Ottawa has held up or kiboshed several other deals.

Now, with an order for another 30,000 rifles and 150,000 pistols from the Kurds, Hussey says he’s moving the manufacturing to the U.S., where the State Department is more supportive of his deals.

“We were going to make them in Canada, but it’s just not worth the risk,” Hussey said, shrugging off the idea of getting the Liberals to change their mind on these exports.

“I’m not SNC-Lavalin.”

 

https://apple.news/AN3_NEDz7TqG96jE1Syk_qw

 

Edited by Jaydee

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Taking a hard line in this part of the world is the domain of fools; the law of unintended consequence will eat you alive.

On the plus side, I hear less people saying "let em rot" or "don't lift a finger" now,  but, the lesson here (for all sides) is short lived and soon forgotten. Previously posted but worth additional reflection.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/they-ll-come-to-kill-us-canadian-trapped-in-syria-pleads-to-un-for-help-1.4645332?cache=yes%3FautoPlay%3Dtrue%3FclipId%3D89926%3FclipId%3D104062%3FautoPlay%3Dtrue%3FclipId%3D375756%3FclipId%3D89619%3FclipId%3D89619%3FautoPlay%3Dtrue%3FclipId%3D86116%3FclipId%3D89680%3FclipId%3D89926%3FclipId%3D89926%3FautoPlay%3Dtrue%3FautoPlay%3Dtrue

Edited by Wolfhunter

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5 hours ago, Marshall said:

They may be released but what then?

It has been discussed here at some length and it seems I'm an army of one. But, western nations need to take charge of their own citizens instead of making them someone else's problem, unless of course you like the notion of catch and release so you fight them again.

At the risk of repeating myself ad nauseam, I want these guys back here to stand trial and go to jail. The alternative is, IMO, the same insanity that has served us so poorly in the past. Think about it..... here we have terrorists, guarded by other terrorists, held in makeshift jails in the geographic bounds of a disputed territory, within a country embroiled in civil war. I simply don't understand how anyone thinks this is a good idea.... so please, type slowly when you explain it too me.

Right now, I'm of the opinion that the only people who think this is right headed are those who have never been there; or anywhere near there. You could have an entire thread about other possible outcomes and none of them would be good. Imagine if every country simply refuses to accept their own citizens back when they are deported..... that's another thread too.

How did we get to this point of madness? I can only guess it's TV or the internet.... people need to get out and see the world, warts and all. Actually, the more warts the better IMO.

Edited by Wolfhunter

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The major problem that I see with bringing them back is perhaps a lack of evidence to try them on.  Then of course if found guilty (not sure of what the charges would be) the sentencing and then where do gaol them.  In the general population (I don't think this would be wise) where then can spread their beliefs?   The only solution would seem to be a special and separate facility where they can serve their time/ / rehabilitation(is that even possible?).  

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4 hours ago, Marshall said:

The major problem that I see with bringing them back is perhaps a lack of evidence to try them on.  Then of course if found guilty (not sure of what the charges would be) the sentencing and then where do gaol them.  In the general population (I don't think this would be wise) where then can spread their beliefs?   The only solution would seem to be a special and separate facility where they can serve their time/ / rehabilitation(is that even possible?).  

That's simply a matter of national convenience and not the problem of other countries forced to hold our citizens. This is our problem and it's our problem to solve.... I have zero sympathy for the notion of foisting our problems on others. If there is no evidence of wrong doing then they're innocent, it's that simple, that's how we roll.... unless there's a memo I didn't get.

That said, traveling out of the country for the purpose of joining a terrorist group should land you lots of jail time and it doesn't matter what else you did.... that just adds to the sentence. Consider the situation with Jack, the UK voided his citizenship and now, as a result, he is Canada's problem to deal with. When you grant citizenship it comes with responsibilities on both sides, Jack is inline for a big payout sometime in the future, when it happens, it will lie right at the feet of the "I wouldn't lift a finger" crowd.

 

Edited by Wolfhunter

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If they are indeed allowed back I sure hope those who allow that, also make damn sure we are set up to process them.  And please no million dollar payouts.

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