blues deville Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Foolproof switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Hmmm... leave the “Auto-fold” engaged, just for fun. Seriously, no one is going to order this option. I believe it’s been offered on the 777 for years.., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 57 minutes ago, conehead said: Hmmm... leave the “Auto-fold” engaged, just for fun. Seriously, no one is going to order this option. I believe it’s been offered on the 777 for years.., Airplane purchases include many options but I think the wingtip function will be standard equipment on this new model 777 or gate selection may be restricted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobcaygeon Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I don't believe it's optional anymore due to gate restrictions. I'm not sure what the big deal is engineering wise. They've been doing this for decades on fighters jets that pull way more G's. How they get the main rotor blades on a naval helicopter to stay in place is beyond me. A helicopter spends it's entire life trying to vibrate apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 11 hours ago, blues deville said: Foolproof switch? I would hope the Boeing engineers included the wingtip position in the takeoff configuration warnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, J.O. said: I would hope the Boeing engineers included the wingtip position in the takeoff configuration warnings. From what I’ve read it’s function will be tied into the T/O Config Warnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsplat Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Hmmm. Given the winter this has been, I can't help but wonder how that joint will stand up in repeated exposure to heavy winter conditions, where ice and/or residual, re-hydrated type 4 fluid can defeat high psi hydraulics, not to mention long term exposure to moderately corrosive runway de-icing fluids. Won't lead to an unsafe takeoff due to the config cross check, but might make reliability a concern. On that topic, i wonder how many CDF's can accommodate the wings in extended position? Vs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 26 minutes ago, Vsplat said: Hmmm. Given the winter this has been, I can't help but wonder how that joint will stand up in repeated exposure to heavy winter conditions, where ice and/or residual, re-hydrated type 4 fluid can defeat high psi hydraulics, not to mention long term exposure to moderately corrosive runway de-icing fluids. Won't lead to an unsafe takeoff due to the config cross check, but might make reliability a concern. On that topic, i wonder how many CDF's can accommodate the wings in extended position? Vs Good point. Cold weather ops and de-icing with this device may require some extra attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I believe the FAA has warned Boeing they're breaking new ground certification wise with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 The original 777 was certified with the folding wing. No one wanted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 There is an article about it in the November 28th 2017 Flight International, I will post it later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Here is the latest update: Story Link: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-publishes-plan-for-non-normal-777x-wing-tip-446789/ 777X wing-tip ops Boeing publishes plan for 'non-normal' 777X wing-tip ops 15 March, 2018 SOURCE: Flight Dashboard BY: Stephen Trimble Washington DC A folding wing-tip on a commercial airliner is never supposed to fail. With the first such mechanism scheduled to enter service on the 777X family in two years, Boeing set a goal to design a folding device so elegant and reliable that its workings would be as unnoticeable to the operators as flap tracks and thrust reversers today. But that doesn’t mean Boeing engineers assumed the 777X’s folding wing-tips will operate flawlessly forever. In a newly-published, 13-page annex to an airport planning document, Boeing for the first time details how airports and 777X operators should cope with a list of potential, albeit highly unlikely, “non-normal” scenarios for the Liebherr-supplied folding mechanism. The preliminary planning document, dated March 2018, is aimed at helping operators cope with any risks that come with Boeing’s embrace of folding wing-tips for the 777X. For the manufacturer, a folding wing-tip’s appeal is straightforward. In flight mode, the mechanism stretches the 777X aircraft’s composite wings to 71.8m (236ft) from wing-tip to wing-tip. On the ground, the wings fold by 3.5m on each side, allowing the aircraft to fit on ICAO Class E airport taxiways, parking ramps and gates. That means the 777X can gain access to the same airports as the 777-300ER, but with a far more efficient wing. In normal operations, Boeing expects 777X pilots to taxi the aircraft with the wings folded until some point before reaching the hold position near the runway, with the exact location determined by each airport. After the flightcrew commands the 20s procedure for the wing-tips to extend and lock, the flightcrew will confirm the aircraft is ready to fly and receive clearance from air traffic control, according to Boeing’s planning documents. Boeing’s engineers identified a conceivable problem with a wing-tip folding failure prior to take-off. In this “non-normal scenario”, the flightcrew might command the wing-tips to extend, but one or both tips don’t move or only partially unfolds, Boeing says in the document. The crew will receive a “wing-tips drive” message on the engine indication and crew alerting system (EICAS) display, plus see a master caution light and hear an aural beeper. If both wing-tips fail to extend, the crew can simply return to the gate. If only one wing-tip extends but the other doesn’t, the air traffic controllers and flightcrew must agree on a route to return to the airport gate or parking stand. For landing, Boeing has designed the wing-tips to fold automatically within 20s as soon as the 777X slows below 50kt. In the improbable situation that the automated command fails, a “wing-tips position” message will appear on the EICAS display, along with a master caution light and an aural beeper. That tips off the flightcrew to manually push the “folding wing tip pilot control module” lever. If one or both of the wing-tips fail to move, the EICAS will display a “wing-tips drive” caution message, showing which wing tip isn’t working. Again, the aircraft won’t be in compliance with a Code E airport wingspan, so the air traffic controllers and flightcrew must agree on the “non-normal” route to gate or parking stand, according to Boeing’s documents. “Boeing designs its airplanes so that redundant systems are independent, and failures or external threats cannot compromise both primary and backup systems simultaneously," Boeing tells FlightGlobal. "The folding wingtips are simple and highly reliable with redundant deploying, retracting and locking mechanisms. We are designing the folding wingtips like every other flight critical system so they meet safety requirements.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon The Loon Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 On 2/1/2018 at 2:35 PM, boestar said: The original 777 was certified with the folding wing. No one wanted it. So too was the A330...many years earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlupin Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Quote An interesting read from Airbus... http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news/en/2017/01/Wings-of-the-future.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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