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Malcolm

Crap from the Left

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10 hours ago, deicer said:

Ok, to address your point, neither works.

So what do we do?

I don’t ever recall any one fleeing a Capitalist society to seek refuge in a Socialist one. I think you can figure this one out for yourself.

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Of course it would be a Liberal who would make this suggestion.  In a nut shell he wants to have all of those who fail to control their own debt, rewarded and I guess those who control their own personal debts will be the ones who pay for the "grasshoppers".  

Manitoba Liberal leader calls on feds to forgive personal, government debts

BY THE CANADIAN PRESS
Posted March 2, 2020 2:29 pm

 The leader of the Manitoba Liberal Party is calling on Ottawa to create a massive debt relief program for individuals and governments across Canada. The Canadian Press

The leader of the Manitoba Liberal Party has written to the prime minister to ask for a massive debt relief program for individuals and governments across Canada.

Dougald Lamont says the federal government should have the Bank of Canada guarantee or assume much of the trillions of dollars of debt held by people and provinces.

Lamont says many people are facing crushing debt loads and provincial governments are paying a lot of interest on their debts.

He says debt forgiveness would be a way to rejuvenate the economy and prevent bankruptcies.

A retired economics professor at Carleton University, however, says the idea would likely lead to a dramatic rise in inflation.

Nick Rowe says the Bank of Canada would have to print a lot of money to wipe out so much debt, and that would destroy its ability to keep inflation rates on target. 

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“This one is a little different; two different versions, two different morals. Here’s the old version: The ant works hard in the withering heat and rain all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold. The moral of the old story: Be responsible for yourself! Modern version: The ant works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving. CBC, CTV and Global show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. The insect kingdom is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be, that in an ant community of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so? Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing, ‘It’s Not Easy Being Green ...’

“A group called ‘Occupy the Anthill’ stages a demonstration in front of the ant’s house where the news stations film the Reverend Al Sharpton and a group of grasshoppers kneeling down to pray for the grasshopper while he damns the ants. He later appears on MSNBC to complain that rich ants do not care about those insects less fortunate. Prime Minister Trudeau condemns the ants and blames  former PM Harper for the grasshopper’s plight. Activists exclaim in an interview on   that the ants has gotten rich off the backs of the poor grasshoppers, and both call for an immediate tax hike on ants to make them pay his fair share. Finally, the Liberal Minority Government drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The ant is fined and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the Government Grasshopper Czar and given to the grasshopper. The story ends as we see the grasshopper and his free-loading grasshopper friends finishing up the last bits of the ant’s food while the government-owned ant house he is in, which, as you’ll recall, just happens to be the ant’s old home, the house crumbles around them because the grasshoppers don’t maintain it. The ant has disappeared in the snow, never to be seen again. The grasshopper is found dead from starvation, and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once prosperous and peaceful ant neighborhood. The moral of the modern version of the story: Be careful how you vote .”

 

 

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On 2/29/2020 at 8:29 AM, deicer said:

Ok, to address your point, neither works.

So what do we do?

I disagree with your statement that neither "works".  Let me start with some places where I think we can agree;  communism does not work, right?  You agree with that I assume.  Capitalism, while not perfect, is the best system humans have ever devised.  Capitalism is like a monarchy - a benevolent monarch is great but a tryranical monarchy is bad, unbridaled capitalism leads to huge discrepancies in wealth and opportunity but a capitalist system with appropriate controls is the best system for the majority of the population.  We do not have an unbridaled capitalist system, even in the U.S.  We have, or had, a system that backstopped the weak, disadvantaged and incapable while providing opportunity to those with the education, intelligence or drive to move ahead.  The progressive tax-system was designed exactly for this reason - those that have more, pay more while those that have less, pay less or pay nothing at all.  This is the system we should all want.

No matter how much we (society) might want to deny it the fact is that some people are born with more talent or ability than others.  Those people are successful and live a better life than the rest of us but we (society) demand that they pay more than those who don't have the talent or ability - they pay the tab for the disadvantaged.  I have some talent and ability and I pay a significant portion of my earnings in income tax and I personally know many people who pay no income tax at all.  While I believe that every person in our country should have access to food, shelter and medical services I do not believe that every person should have a new iPhone and be taking vacations in Jamaica every year.  When you (or someone else) says that Capitalism doesn't work they are, usually, comparing Bezos (who owns Amazon) with some street person who owns nothing - that's not a fair comparison.

My point is that even though Capitalism might not be "perfect" it's by far the best system we've ever had. Nothing drives me more crazy than some 20-something University educated moron with an iPhone and data plan protesting Capitalism while being completely unaware of how much they have drawn from society in education, health care, services all paid for by someone else.

Edited by seeker
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G'day Seeker

Yes, I agree with you.  Capitalism is good, just not the form of capitalism we have had foisted upon us by Reagan, Thatcher and Mulroney that has led us to the point where we are with such wealth disparity.

While talent has a large part in success, greed has overtaken it and has removed the ability of those who aren't as 'talented' to even have a shot at success.

What we have to eliminate is the extremes at both ends and get back to the middle.  Yesterday, the patron saint of outsourcing and the initiator of where we are, passed away.  Jack Welch was the one who enriched himself by starting the wave of jobs flowing overseas.  So 'ding dong the witch is dead'.  All to make billions flow to the top.  

So what we are seeing now is the backlash against the last 40 years of younger generations getting the shaft.

As has been mentioned before,  the pendulum will have to swing to the other side before it comes back to the middle.  Trump is one extreme, let's see where the other side goes.  

The only constant in this is that change is inevitable, however, there are those who have lots of money and influence that are trying to hold the pendulum hard to one side, which will only make the inevitable change that much more dramatic.

https://www.forbes.com/2004/05/11/0511autofacescan01.html#70fac0897fab

The road to Calcutta... Jack Welch scoffed at outsourcing as the culprit behind America's anemic jobs growth. General Electric garrulous ex-chief executive proclaimed the notion merely political, noting snidely that "it is election time." He declared to a confab of the World Business Forum in New York that "It is the dumbest argument ever put out." The legendary CEO warned leaders that to "stop two jobs from going abroad" would "kill 20 here." Welch--once nicknamed "Neutron Jack" for his stance on vast layoffs--saw GE lead the vanguard in outsourcing to low-wage nations, such as ever-teeming India.

 

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“ In the nation’s hour of crisis and consequence, Americans will not forget the partisan political stunt Democrats pulled. Ever.”

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we get it.  the US government is dysfunctional and as a result people are dying.

Are you Surprised?

Point the finger all you want to DEM or REP but both are equally to blame for this mess.

Posting memes like a 14 year old girl does nothing to further your argument.

 

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You have to stop taking things so personal. If it doesn’t apply to you, simply move on. You may get it..(or you may not)....but pretty sure some 50% of the readers here don’t. The seed must be watered constantly before growth occurs.

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Edited by Jaydee
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2 hours ago, Jaydee said:

You may get it..(or you may not)....but pretty sure some 50% of the readers here don’t.

Not sure about here, but across the spectrum I think (actually, I fear) you are right. The partisan machinations in the US Senate are a fascinating case study and one voters are sure to remember this fall…. I simply can’t fathom the tactical thinking at work there.

Now consider Italy, they have been beaten over the head and the government (quite rightly) wants to keep key sectors of industry functioning (medical suppliers and support industries)…. yet Italian workers in the metal, chemical, textile, rubber-plastic and paper industries are expected to go on strike on Wednesday.

Level 1 (UNSAT) for situational awareness... re-brief and 2XEDs required.

 

Edited by Wolfhunter

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Seniors south of the boarder now the subject of conversation on sacrificing themselves for the good of the US economy.  Republican Money over life.  

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19 hours ago, Jaydee said:

You have to stop taking things so personal. If it doesn’t apply to you, simply move on. You may get it..(or you may not)....but pretty sure some 50% of the readers here don’t. The seed must be watered constantly before growth occurs.

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I am just getting alittle sick of seeing the negative comments when many of the problems stem from the right and you choose top defend it.  The left handles it very pooorly I will give you that but the memes are the communication of a 12 year old who just got a facebook account.  How about some substance.

Its really getting old.

 

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58 minutes ago, boestar said:

Its really getting old.

You have options not to see my posts. If they bother you that much I suggest you avail yourself of them.

Been a slice ! 

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I love the silence.

No one is suggesting that border controls are racist anymore. Not a single Liberal is suggesting that border guards are Nazis.    

People throwing plastic gloves on the ground at Sobey's no longer have anything to say about plastic straws.

And those who have said "Canada doesn't need... whatever " heavy lift helicopters, fighters, CAS, TASMO, ASW, etc. now realize how limited their experience is in the real world and have nothing more to say. 

In times of emergency, judge the foolish by their silence...

 

Edited by Wolfhunter
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9 minutes ago, Wolfhunter said:

I love the silence.

No one is suggesting that border controls are racist anymore. Not a single Liberal is suggesting that border guards are Nazis.    

People throwing plastic gloves on the ground at Sobey's no longer have anything to say about plastic straws.

And those who have said "Canada doesn't need... whatever " heavy lift helicopters, fighters, CAS, TASMO, ASW, etc. now realize how limited their experience is in the real world and have nothing more to say. 

In times of emergency, judge the foolish by their silence...

 

Don't expect it to last.  Those so inclined can, and will, rationalize anything.  Once the immediate crisis is passed you'll hear, "Now is the time for us to open the borders to show the world that "we" haven't changed as a result of CV19."  "Now is the time to spend more money in far-away places to "prevent" it from happening again."  And, most likely, "Now is the time to double down on green-deal, climate change initiatives since we see that we don't have to live the lifestyle we lived in the past."

I know the arguments are specious but predict the attempt will be to move all the lines further than they were before using whatever justification necessary.

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4 hours ago, seeker said:

Don't expect it to last.  Those so inclined can, and will, rationalize anything.  Once the immediate crisis is passed you'll hear, "Now is the time for us to open the borders to show the world that "we" haven't changed as a result of CV19."  "Now is the time to spend more money in far-away places to "prevent" it from happening again."  And, most likely, "Now is the time to double down on green-deal, climate change initiatives since we see that we don't have to live the lifestyle we lived in the past."

I know the arguments are specious but predict the attempt will be to move all the lines further than they were before using whatever justification necessary.

Climate Barbie has already stated that 'Our comeback should "investing" in green projects'.

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