Crap from the Left and added July 242020, from the right.


Recommended Posts

At first I thought this was a joke or a parody of sorts. But after checking further, I see that it actually isn't. 

Cast your mind back a few years and remember a time when shaking hands with the president didn't elicit death threats..... we have fallen so far so fast that no one seems to notice the incremental steps anymore. That's the real story here, the important story, and the only one worth telling IMO:  

"The left is repeating the errors of fascist governments whereby the mob determines what you will do and say, even who you are allowed to sit with."


https://nationalpost.com/news/world/vince-vaughn-shakes-hands-with-donald-trump-at-football-game-cue-the-outrage

Edited by Wolfhunter
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 881
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I don't live in Ontario and am therefore not really entitled to an opinion but here it is anyway - I'm not a big DF fan but after the gross mis-management of the province by the Liberals can anyone re

Posted Images

Like cool, like..... like, we should all be like grateful we live in a time where we can like watch history as it like repeats itself. 

Overall, a bit scary but I sure am. I always wondered how things like this could ever gain traction.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is Extremism.  This is outright FAR left Extremism.  If you don't think these same conversations happen on the extreme right you are delusional. They just aren't stupid enough to record it.

In every political and religious group you will have the extremists that will do "whatever it takes"  We refer to them at Terrorists when their skin colour does not match ours but in the end they are political or religious extremists.   Fortunately they make up a very small percentage of the actual population at large.

At any rate would Milwaukee really be a great loss? ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

And as you said, there is far right extremism.  Only that tends to be far more dangerous...

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/939b3y/virginia-declares-state-of-emergency-after-armed-militias-threaten-to-storm-the-capitol

Virginia Declares State of Emergency After Armed Militias Threaten to Storm the Capitol

The governor said law enforcement had intercepted “extremist rhetoric” similar to the lead-up to Charlottesville days before pro-gun activists are holding a rally.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, boestar said:

This is outright FAR left Extremism.

Hi boestar,

Extremism is the foundation for more extremism and will always be countered by equal and opposite extremism. I would urge you to consider a number bar from -10 to +10 with zero as its centre.

I think we would (at least previously) have agreed that the extremists you refer to (on both sides) inhabited the end zones on both sides of zero. If history is circular and repeatable, and I think it is, we should collectively look for two things to happen simultaneously.

It starts when the far left and far right begin to share the same values, particularly when it comes to using violence as a tool. By that I mean they deem it justified and in some cases mandatory to further their narrative. In addition, they begin to stand in opposition to similar causes….. I’ll offer anti-Semitism as an example.

In its most virulent and dangerous form, it was once the exclusive domain of far right skin head types. That is simply no longer the case, if you look closely, the far left has adopted the cause as well and its adherents now hold office at the highest level…. that is actually the second point to be considered.

I’ll offer a third because it gains nourishment from the first two. When people hear political leaders (of any stripe) give voice to their own, silently held notions, they become emboldened, more vocal, more agitated and more prone to behaviour they would previously never have countenanced.

Please consider a forth development which IMO proceeds from the others. As extreme behaviour advances down the graph toward zero, the (real) extremes NEED TO BECOME MORE EXTREME just to maintain station. The type of violence that comes from this is actually a form of terrorism as you wisely point out…. think of it this way, it might be normal for group A to be mad at group B for cause, but when they are willing to violently attack group C in reprisal (like some kid in a MAGA hat), they move the graph closer to zero. Most folks think that election violence only happens “over there.” 

As all of this progresses, the range on the graph inhabited by (I’ll call them) political agnostics, those only seeking the free market of good ideas shrinks quickly. By some accounts it now stands at 12-15% of voters but that still represents enough swing votes (in both directions) to carry the day and maintain a level of detente because they need to be courted. For instance, old guard Democrats are now in a bit of a panic over independents who simply won't support a progressive agenda and can't be swayed.

When that pool of agnostic voters goes extinct, or falls below the effective tipping point, I will expect you to buy the beer….. at that point, we will have passed PNR, the problem will be obvious to all, it will be too late to change course but the beer will be just as good. In short, I think this is much further advanced and more dangerous than (it seems to me) you do. Cheers

PS: I just noticed deicer's post above. That's exactly what I mean although it is limiting to think of it as a competition (of sorts) as to who is worse. It's symbiotic, each side feeds off the other and each act advances the colour red closer to zero on both sides of the line. For history to truly repeat, THAT FACT NEEDS TO GET LOST IN THE WAR OF WORDS and political foes need to relish the call to battle and strictly align along party lines regardless of the facts at hand.... in other words, everything Obama is good and everything Trump is bad. Some of the recent media gaffs that attributed Obama era actions to Trump come instantly to mind. There were no retractions, outrage simply turned to silence as if the action that triggered the outage no longer mattered or ceased to be relevant.... that portends danger ahead.

 Once the agnostics get religion, and they will, we will all wonder how "we got to this point" and "over there" will become "over here." 

 

 

Edited by Wolfhunter
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Note the Canadian Involved:

FBI arrests suspected neo-Nazis ahead of Virginia gun rally

Former Canadian military reservist Patrik Jordan Mathews poses in an undated picture provided by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada August 28, 2019.Image copyrightREUTERS Image captionPatrik Mathews was reportedly arrested after months on the run

The FBI has arrested three suspected members of a neo-Nazi hate group who planned to travel to a pro-gun rally in Virginia on Monday, reports say.

One was a Canadian army reservist who was fired in August over ties to hate groups and has been suspected missing since, Canadian police told the BBC.

Virginia governor Ralph Northam has declared a state of emergency in the city of Richmond ahead of the rally.

He said law enforcement believed there was a threat of violence.

Governor Northam on Thursday announced a ban guns in the state's Capitol area in Richmond from Friday until Tuesday, citing threats of violence made ahead of the rally. The order also covers other weapons such as knives and sticks.

He said some of the violent rhetoric seen online was reminiscent of that seen before the deadly Charlottesville rally in 2017, at which a 32-year-old counter protester, Heather Heyer, was killed by white nationalist James Fields.

Monday's rally was planned by the Virginia Citizens Defence League (VCDL), a pro-gun-rights group, to protest gun control legislation that is expected to pass in the new year. VCDL said it was expecting 50,000 people to attend the protest.

Presentational white space

Democrats won control of the Virginia state legislature last autumn, for the first time since 1994, and have made gun control a key part of their platform, especially in light of last summer's shooting at Virginia Beach, which killed 12.

Mr Northam, who is also a Democrat and has been governor since 2017, tried to get gun control measures passed to no avail this summer, before the election.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) confirmed that ex-reservist Patrik Mathews was arrested Thursday morning. A spokesperson said that the force would work closely with the US FBI. The FBI was not immediately available for comment.

A reporter from the Winnipeg Free Press first identified Mr Mathews as a member of the right-wing extremist group The Base, identifying violent and hate-filled messages allegedly posted by the reservist in encrypted online chats.

"We're real (expletive) Nazis and they can't do s—- to us but wait for us to put em against the wall," Mr Mathews allegedly wrote.

Police raided Mr Matthews' home shortly after the report and seized a number of firearms.

A combat engineer reservist, Mr Mathews was soon fired from the armed forces and subsequently disappeared. Reports from the autumn said he had still not been located.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently they were planning quite the 'party'....

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/m7qvxv/arrested-neo-nazis-built-a-weapon-were-making-dmt-court-docs

Arrested Neo-Nazis Built a Weapon, Were Making DMT: Court Docs

 

The arrests came just as authorities expressed worry about a pro-gun rally in Virginia turning violent.

 

Three members of the neo-Nazi terror group The Base stockpiled over a thousand rounds of ammunition, illegally manufactured an assault rifle, and attempted to make the hallucinogenic drug DMT, newly released court documents allege.

The New York Times first reported that Patrik Mathews, a former Canadian Armed Forces reservist, was among the three arrested by the FBI. Mathews went missing last summer after a Winnipeg Free Press investigation outed him as a recruiter for The Base in Canada and was believed to have entered the U.S. illegally last summer. VICE exclusively reported in December that Mathews was being harboured by The Base.

 

The arrests illustrate the threat of domestic terror groups in the U.S. and the commitment of federal authorities to cracking down on what is becoming a national security nightmare ahead of the 2020 presidential election in November. On Wednesday, Virginia declared a state of emergency because authorities believed “armed militia groups plan to storm the capitol” ahead of a guns rights rally this weekend.

The FBI arrested Mathews, Brian M. Lemley Jr., 33, and William G. Bilbrough IV, 19, on Thursday, according to a Department of Justice statement. Mathews has been charged with transporting a firearm and ammunition with intent to commit a felony and being an alien in possession of a firearm and ammunition, while Lemley and Bilbrough are facing charges of transporting and harbouring aliens and conspiring to do so. Lemley also faces a charge of transporting a machine gun and disposing of a firearm and ammunition to an alien unlawfully present in the United States.

An FBI affidavit supporting the criminal complaint against Lemley says that Mathews crossed over the border on August 19 and Lemley and Bilbrough “conspired to transport and harbour Mathews in order to conceal Mathews’ unlawful presence in the United States.”

According to the affidavit, the pair picked Mathews up in Michigan and then drove 600 miles back to Maryland, where Lemley eventually rented an apartment for him and Mathews. In this apartment, Lemley and Mathews ordered weapon parts and constructed a “functioning assault rifle.” Lemley allegedly told Mathews that the rifle ”would have to be cached though because that‘s an ATF **bleep** nightmare” and “oh oops, it looks like I accidentally made a machine gun.”

 

Lemley and Mathews allegedly took the weapon to a shooting range the FBI and ATF were staking out and viewed Lemley and Mathews firing the fully automatic rifle.

The trio also allegedly discussed making DMT and attempted to manufacture the drug. Early this year, according to the statement, Lemley purchased over 1,500 rounds for the rifle and gave it to Mathews.

The crew face lengthy sentences if they are found guilty, with some of their alleged crimes coming with maximum sentences of 10 years.

The Base is an international neo-Nazi terror network with active cells around the world and affiliations to the domestic hate group Atomwaffen Division, which has been linked to several murders in the U.S.

Do you have information about far-right extremists and groups including The Base? We’d love to hear from you. You can contact Mack Lamoureux securely on Wire at @mlamoureux , or by email at mack.lamoureux@vice.com

While in the U.S., Mathews continued to be active in The Base training other members in a paramilitary training camp held in Georgia this past fall, according to VICE sources.

Joshua Fisher-Birch, a research analyst for the Counter Extremism Project, said that the arrest of The Base members was “welcome news, especially considering that it’s reported that they were armed and discussing attending upcoming pro-firearms protests in Virginia.”

“This is the perfect environment for the group to either attempt to recruit, or to try to encourage and spread disorder,” said Fisher-Birch. “Mathews has been missing for almost five months, which is ample time to pass on skills and training to his fellow neo-Nazis. The Base has repeatedly stated their support for extreme violence and terrorism. Measures taken to prevent them from organizing, training, and arming, are essential for public safety.”

 

Mathews was dismissed by the military after his connection to The Base was made public. During his time with the Canadian Forces he was provided with “rudimentary explosives training.” A prior VICE investigation into the Base showed that the group shared an online library that featured manuals on how to make bombs and chemical weapons.

Read the criminal complaints against Brian M. Lemley Jr, William G. Bilbrough IV, and Patrik Mathews below.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, deicer said:

And as you said, there is far right extremism.  Only that tends to be far more dangerous...

Really?  More dangerous than Anifa?

While I agree that the rhetoric is similar how many "far right" protests have there been in relation to the far left?  More importantly, how many have been violent and destructive?

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, deicer said:

And as you said, there is far right extremism.  Only that tends to be far more dangerous...

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/939b3y/virginia-declares-state-of-emergency-after-armed-militias-threaten-to-storm-the-capitol

Virginia Declares State of Emergency After Armed Militias Threaten to Storm the Capitol

The governor said law enforcement had intercepted “extremist rhetoric” similar to the lead-up to Charlottesville days before pro-gun activists are holding a rally.

 

Helloooooo Second amendment 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, seeker said:

Really?  More dangerous than Anifa?

While I agree that the rhetoric is similar how many "far right" protests have there been in relation to the far left?  More importantly, how many have been violent and destructive?

Believe what you want, however the facts speak for themselves....

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/right-wing-terrorist-killings-government-focus-jihadis-islamic-radicalism.html

Right-Wingers Are America’s Deadliest Terrorists

After this weekend, right-wing terrorists have killed more people on U.S. soil than jihadis have since 9/11. So why is the government’s focus still on Islamic radicalism?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/right-wing-terrorists-murder-far-right-islamist-anti-defamation-league-adl-a8742476.html

Right-wing terrorists killed three times more people in US than Islamists in past decade with attacks soaring in 2018, report says

 

Increase should 'serve as a wake-up call to everyone about the deadly consequences of hateful rhetoric' says Anti-Defamation League

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, deicer said:

Believe what you want, however the facts speak for themselves....

An article posted on Slate hardly constitutes "fact".  A left-leaning website that makes the claim that the far-right is worse than Islamic terrorists - big surprise.  If I had the time and energy, which I don't, I could probably scour the internet and find a right-leaning source claiming the left is worse.

Couple of quick points, before I get on with my day;

The Slate article includes a graph which lists many murders/death attributed to far-right.  A lot of those (that I looked at) are a single person being killed during a robbery or some other illegal activity where the person who committed the murder was a skinhead or something.  This doesn't meet the definition of terrorism.  I think if you culled those the numbers would show that Islamic terrorists are worse than the far-right.

In any case, the article you posted is off the mark from my point.  I said Antifa is more dangerous than the far-right.  Now, how do you define "dangerous"?  It's really an argument we can't have unless we could come to an agreement on the definition, which is likely impossible.  Is the definition of "danger" to mean solely "risk of death" or should it include "loss of freedoms, way-of-life, high standard of living, opportunity for our children"?  Antifa - by design - is a destructive force.  They believe that the structure of western society and capitalism is oppressive and should be torn down/stopped/slowed/disrupted.  The far-right wants to maintain the status-quo and uses violence toward their goal. 

This is not an endorsement of the far-right but let's look at the end-game for each side if they were to achieve their goals;  if some far-right anti-immigration group was to achieve their goal and stop all immigration there would clearly be a significant loss/impact for those who want to emigrate and possibly some negative societal outcomes.  If Antifa was to achieve their goal we would see our present system of government replaced with Communism or Socialism.  Which is more destructive (dangerous)?  Of course you could make the claim that Anita doesn't really want to "replace" democracy with Communism but rather wants to simply move the needle a little toward the left and have a more caring and equitable society and someone could make the claim that the far-right doesn't really want to end all immigration but rather just wants some limits or constraints.  With that we're off in the weeds trying to define the terms again; what activity falls under the Antifa umbrella and what gets considered as far-right and how do you actually assess their goals - by the loud, aggressive person at the extreme end of the spectrum or by the general attitude of the people who identify with the group or by the casual, part-timers who go to a protest once or twice a year?

I think it's clear that both left and right extremism and violence is to be abhorred and rejected.  That being said I would feel that the stated goals of both sides lead me to believe that the desire to tear down our current system and replace it with Communism is the more dangerous - both bad, but one slightly more bad.

Edited by seeker
Link to post
Share on other sites

I love how the right keeps propping up the bogeyman of communism.  I can guarantee you that it will never happen in the U.S. or Canada, however, it is an effective tool to frighten the right.

You should be more concerned about out of control American Capitalism and how it is turning back to the days of slavery.

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, deicer said:

I love how the right keeps propping up the bogeyman of communism.  I can guarantee you that it will never happen in the U.S. or Canada, however, it is an effective tool to frighten the right.

You should be more concerned about out of control American Capitalism and how it is turning back to the days of slavery.

Really?  That's your response?  You can "guarantee" that communism will never happen.  Wow, I'm so reassured now. 

Furthermore, how about actually reading my post?  I didn't say Antifa was solely about Communism but that it was about tearing down/stopping/slowing/disrupting the structure of our society and government.  Antifa is Communist and/or Socialist and/or Anarchist and/or anti-capitalist.  You want to take "Communist" out of the definition.  Well, ok then, let's do that.  Are you suggesting that we can now happily support a group that is Socialist, Anarchist, anti-capitalist and uses violence and destruction in the pursuit of it's goals? 

BTW, I don't like the KKK or skinheads either.

Edited by seeker
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, deicer said:

You should be more concerned about out of control American Capitalism and how it is turning back to the days of slavery.

Yep...Badddddd Capitalismm..Socialism is so great right?  ..I guess that’s why so many migrant caravans try to crush their way into the US each year. Funny thing that...I have yet to hear of a caravan headed towards Venezuela.

I also suppose that’s why....

” Immigrants and their U.S.-born children now number approximately 89.4 million people, or 28 percent of the overall U.S. population, according to the 2018 Current Population Survey (CPS). Pew Research Center projects that the immigrant-origin share will rise to about 36 percent by 2065.Mar 14, 2019“

 

A580E3A1-D6CC-4493-B6F2-F30FF67AF5F1.jpeg

Edited by Jaydee
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, deicer said:

Believe what you want, however the facts speak for themselves....

Rarely have I found occasion to assert that the facts speak for themselves, how much less the case when narratives come into play. I have delved into the firearms debate sufficiently to discover that deliberate manipulation is rampant, unless for example, you wish to assert that 24 year olds are actually children and that hundreds of lost police weapons qualify as domestically sourced crime guns or that nail gun injuries should be attributed to firearms.

On several occasions I have posted the definition of terrorism on this forum…. all to no avail. There are small differences between the RCMP, FBI, Homeland Security, and United Nations definitions but they are minor variations on a theme. That definition serves a purpose, as does modifying the definition simply to make points that could otherwise not be credibly made.

This is an age of hyper partisanship elevated to a crazy stupid level that now borders on tribalism. During the course of a career that spanned more than 3 decades and included 10 foreign deployments, I can say without hesitation, that in my experience, I’ve seen nothing good come of tribalism.

These discussions rarely result in rational options, they are simply about who is right and why someone else is wrong. It becomes something akin to a grade 3 argument during recess that not only fails to serve a purpose, it entrenches playground divisions and animosities.  When actions and rhetoric become extreme, the blame (IMO) falls squarely on the shoulders of those people (on both sides of the issue) doing the finger pointing and inflaming the tribe. Invariably, members of both tribes fall off the cliff blaming each other for the lack of training in base jumping techniques…. or some equally foolish fault, action or omission that has nothing to do with the problem at hand. Their sense of cause and effect prevents any action other then the assignment of blame and vengeful retaliation. Look around carefully, I'm seeing it happen "over here" now, so  even a dumb grunt can occasionally connect the dots given enough experience eh?

So, let's see if I can do it..... the cold temperatures out west and the major snowstorm in Newfoundland stands as proof that the carbon tax is working; and, that it's working better and faster than we had hopped. The current evidence suggests that if we simply double the tax to a modest $40 per ton, we can reverse global warming and get back to where we were before we even thought of it as a problem. I offer the following link as proof:

  https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-outages-expected-as-blizzard-conditions-descend-on-eastern/

OK.... that was easier than I thought and no experience required!

There is an African proverb that I’m about to butcher (I don’t care enough to look it up). Essentially it says that the resolution to avoid evil only comes about after the evil has taken root. Tribalism is alive and well in Africa so take heed. Those contributing to its nourishment "here" should "go there", see it, smell it…. and then make an informed decision. If you like what you see, then simply stay the course. 

Edited by Wolfhunter
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Wolfhunter said:

  It becomes something akin to a grade 3 argument during recess that not only fails to serve a purpose, it entrenches playground divisions and animosities

Or maybe........

0FE5643A-6821-4C4A-B393-0F14CDE7A269.jpeg

Edited by Jaydee
Link to post
Share on other sites

Legacy building...one of Obamas  last actions as President

Obama Commutes Life Sentences of Four Mexican Cartel Leaders

ROMA, Texas — Four family members who ran one of the largest cartel smuggling operations in south Texas had their life in prison sentences commuted and will likely be returning to this border city from where they ran their criminal empire. One of the main destinations that the criminal organizations delivered drugs to was Chicago, Illinois.

 

This week, outgoing President Barack Obama commuted the sentences of 209 convicted criminals and pardoned 64 others. The majority of the convictions were from drug trafficking or production offenses.

Four of those convicted criminals who had been sentenced to life in prison will be released by May 17. They ran a criminal organization made up of close to 80 men and women who worked with Mexico’s Gulf Cartel to move between 100,000 to almost 750,000 pounds of marijuana into the U.S. during a 10-year period. The drugs were moved into Houston and then distributed to Atlanta, Chicago, and other major metropolitan areas.

 

According to court records obtained by Breitbart Texas, brothers Cesar Moreno Sr., Eduardo Moreno, Lazaro Moreno, and Luis Moreno along with other relatives and friends had been at the helm of a large-scale drug distribution operation based out of the border city of Roma, Texas.  The area has long been one of he main distribution lines used by Mexico’s Gulf Cartel to get large quantities of marijuana into the U.S. due to the remoteness of the area, lacking physical barriers, and police resources–not to mention the complicity of various law enforcement officials. 

In the case of the Moreno brothers, the groups invested heavily in real state and the used car business to launder millions in drug proceeds.

https://www.breitbart.com/border/2017/01/19/obama-commutes-life-sentences-four-mexican-cartel-leaders/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.