wizard Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Why is YYZ such a **bleep** show that basically comes to a stand still on a day with no real weather issues like today they have a 2 hour ground stop ?? Is it staff shortages in ATC ? Like somebody needs to be held accountable for this. YYZ has become top 3 worst airports in The North America for moving traffic it's just a laughing stock. Shocked nobody talks about how bad YYZ has become in the last 18 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.k. Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Absolutely. NavCanada is a disappointment. So is the GTAA for that matter. The rules and procedures they both put in place and the little castles they defend Staff shortages, holiday book offs, OT generating deals... business suffers, passengers suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 And we pay these clowns for this second rate service, embarrassing. Sadly the travelling public blames the Airline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon The Loon Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 12 hours ago, wizard said: Why is YYZ such a **bleep** show that basically comes to a stand still on a day with no real weather issues like today they have a 2 hour ground stop ?? Is it staff shortages in ATC ? Like somebody needs to be held accountable for this. YYZ has become top 3 worst airports in The North America for moving traffic it's just a laughing stock. Shocked nobody talks about how bad YYZ has become in the last 18 months. 18 years is more like it. It's embarrassing taking a flight into or out of (as pilot or passenger) this "world class airport" EGCC/London Gatwick moves more tin on a single runway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st27 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Aside from the usual complaints about escalators/moving sidewalks out of service, lack of space in boarding lounges, and money wasted on departure “flowers” and viewing towers..the Gtaa could start by cleaning up garbage people leave in the boarding lounges. The one I was in the other night had crap all over the place. Also, the men’s washrooms always smell like urine. Third world, hardly world class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 36 minutes ago, st27 said: Aside from the usual complaints about escalators/moving sidewalks out of service, lack of space in boarding lounges, and money wasted on departure “flowers” and viewing towers..the Gtaa could start by cleaning up garbage people leave in the boarding lounges. The one I was in the other night had crap all over the place. Also, the men’s washrooms always smell like urine. Third world, hardly world class. Perhaps the urine smell could be combated with a simple sign: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 Good to see I'm not the only one that thinks YYZ and GTAA amd Nav Canada are all a bunch of thieves and the ones being ripped off are the flying public and all the tenets that are trying to provide aviation services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Lotta talk...... but how many have initiated any written correspondence about all your actual, and possibly perceived, problems with GTTA and ATC? The pat answer is to say "what's the use?" but bare in mind nothing will ever get changed unless someone starts the ball rolling. I don't think any airline employee can be that busy that they couldn't take the time to start the paper machine movement. Venting is good for the soul and perhaps your health, but does nothing to address the problem. Yes, being retired affords me the time to send out the letters and oft times I know that I am but a sparrow fart in a hurricane with respect to my opinion but....you see, eventually they have to take the time and efforts to at least send me an answer. and that is some satisfaction..... And believe it or not, I did make a major change by initiating one piece of paper with respect to smoking in DND cockpits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st27 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Just did Kip, and before our departure I advised our Stoc to call Gtaa and clean up the mess in the lounge and on th Bridge. And previously when I tried to comment on the Gtaa website, it didn’t allow employee input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted December 24, 2017 Author Share Posted December 24, 2017 Looks like tomorrow's forcast is not good. Calling for 15 cm in the GTA. YYZ will come to stand still and I will predict cancelations will be huge starting in the afternoon and will continue into Christmas Day. Looks like a lot of people will be stuck for Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted December 24, 2017 Author Share Posted December 24, 2017 Who wants to bet GTAA runs out of deicing fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 I have never worked anywhere where it was really practical or well received to individually take complaints to vendors or landlords without going through some bureaucratic channel. One facility won't even talk to my subordinates, if someone calls them they just call me. That is just how they do it and they're not going to manage a list of people I delegate to deal with them. This annoys me to no end because my interest in managing passes and maintenance issues is absolute zero. But yeah, I flew home to YYC for Christmas via YYZ on the 23rd and it was just one unjustifiable mess after another, GTAA, CBSA, CATSA and airline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Super 80 said: I have never worked anywhere where it was really practical or well received to individually take complaints to vendors or landlords without going through some bureaucratic channel. With respect...your line I have quoted above is basically true...however, I would like to remind you that EVERYTHING in this world is the result of ONE person having an idea and putting it forth. Changes seldom, if ever, happen overnight but constant knocking on the door oft times gets the door to open, and even if it is just a crack, light may shine through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 The hardest thing to change is bad policy. Nowhere is this more true than at Nav Canada and the GTAA. And the biggest shame is that it usually takes 2 generations of management to change bad policy because the new guy often doesn't want to sully the legacy of his predecessor who instituted the bad policy, usually a previous boss, or even friend. I, too, am a letter writer and with respect to both of the organizations at CYYZ and, despite initial hope, our Minister of Transport, IMO, nothing will happen to improve the situation (from many aspects... ATC, noise, deicing, user fees, landing fees, airport land rents, out of control spending....) for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 4 hours ago, Super 80 said: But yeah, I flew home to YYC for Christmas via YYZ on the 23rd and it was just one unjustifiable mess after another, GTAA, CBSA, CATSA and airline. Just spoke with friends who were travelling YOW-YYZ-YXE with Air Canada on the 22nd. Took them 30 hours, most of that spent in YYZ. They finally arrived at destination late on the 23rd. He told me the delay was mostly caused by the fact that after landing in YYZ, they sat for over an hour waiting for a gate, thus missing the connection to Saskatoon, thus getting re-booked for the next day. They were not very happy, and as full-fare paying passengers, they’ll probably try the competition next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 The “waiting for a gate” seems to have become a year round normal Ops for AC at Toronto. What is their problem with properly staffing ramp crews? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Not so much a ramp crew issue, but rather lack of gate issue. GTAA should have built out the third pier while they still had shovels in the ground. That is why the 'H' gates are being utilised. And it just isn't at T1 that there is a lack of gates, so not exclusively an AC issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 1 hour ago, conehead said: Just spoke with friends who were travelling YOW-YYZ-YXE with Air Canada on the 22nd. Took them 30 hours, most of that spent in YYZ. They finally arrived at destination late on the 23rd. He told me the delay was mostly caused by the fact that after landing in YYZ, they sat for over an hour waiting for a gate, thus missing the connection to Saskatoon, thus getting re-booked for the next day. They were not very happy, and as full-fare paying passengers, they’ll probably try the competition next time. I wish them luck as the delay was hardly only the fault of AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 1 hour ago, deicer said: Not so much a ramp crew issue, but rather lack of gate issue. GTAA should have built out the third pier while they still had shovels in the ground. That is why the 'H' gates are being utilised. And it just isn't at T1 that there is a lack of gates, so not exclusively an AC issue. The AC flights I am referring to were held up short of the assigned gate waiting for ground crew to either move equipment or find staff to safely marshall the aircraft. The tone of the Captain’s voice on the PA was never a happy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 I’m not saying it’s all on AC, I’m sure the problem is a combination of both under-staffing by Air Canada and a lack of available gates (poor planning by the GTAA). Just a total **bleep**-show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 GTAA and IROP is known by another name.... Clusterf$&@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILB Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 This is a website I always refer to when operating or flying in or out of YYZ: https://extranetapps.navcanada.ca/ois/ois.aspx If YYZ is showing anything lower than 56 in the AAR column, for any aircraft coming in from anywhere closer than 1500 nm, it's going to be a long day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 8 hours ago, ILB said: This is a website I always refer to when operating or flying in or out of YYZ: https://extranetapps.navcanada.ca/ois/ois.aspx If YYZ is showing anything lower than 56 in the AAR column, for any aircraft coming in from anywhere closer than 1500 nm, it's going to be a long day. I should know but memory does not serve. By lower than 56 do you mean 75 or 25? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILB Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 25. AAR is the aircraft (?) arrival rate. 56 per hour is the best they can achieve, and anything,good golfing conditions included, can and will reduce that rate, resulting in ground delays and ground stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 22 hours ago, ILB said: 25. AAR is the aircraft (?) arrival rate. 56 per hour is the best they can achieve, and anything,good golfing conditions included, can and will reduce that rate, resulting in ground delays and ground stops. Thanks, I see at 10:54EST Dec 26, YYZ is so far leading the pack APRT Arr Rwy Dep Rwy AAR Details CYUL 24R/24L 24L/24R 24 SNOW CLEARING 1430-1600 AAR 24 CYYZ 23/24R 23/24R 56 CYYC 17L/R 17L/R 44 CYVR 08L/R 08R 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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