blues deville Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 “What’s it going to take to get you into a pre-owned F-18?” I know full well new modern aircraft are expensive but why do our armed forces always have to buy someone else’s used equipment? http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/australian-f-18s-being-considered-by-canada-to-need-overhaul-to-keep-flying?utm_source=skies-daily-news-news-from-the-web&utm_campaign=skies-daily-news&utm_medium=email&utm_term=news-news-from-the-web&utm_content=V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Hmm? Other than the British subs and the CH-47's picked up in the early 2000's (since replaced with new) what else have we bought used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 There was the ex-CAIL A-310's but they were better than new. I worked on them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Didn't Canada exchange CF 101's with some National Guards units? Not much publicity about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 A squadron of 20 Leopard 2A6M ("M" for extra mine protection) tanks "for deployed operations" were leased from the German Bundeswehr for interim use in Afghanistan starting August 2007.[6] 20 Leopard 2A6 were purchased from the Netherlands and then upgraded to the 2A6M standard.[7] The 20 leased German Leopards have been retained and in their place Canada transferred the 20 tanks upgraded to the 2A6M standard purchased from the Netherlands to Germany at the end of the lease agreement. This leaves Canada with a total of 20 Leopard 2A6Ms. Leopard 2A4+/2A4M Main Battle Tank 60 Germany 80 Leopard 2A4 from Netherlands, with 20 updated in 2007–2008 to a 2A4M CAN version with extra belly armour for mine protection (M) and additional modular armour and other enhancements (CAN). An additional 40 tanks, designated "Leopard 2A4+", have been retained for training and the remaining 20 are to be converted to Engineer (13) and Bridge-Laying (7) support vehicles. 15 Leopard 2A4 from Germany in the summer of 2007 for Logistic Stock Vehicles (for spare parts). 12 Leopard 2A4 from Switzerland in 2010 for conversion to Armoured Recovery Vehicles.[8] Engineering, Developing & Licensing Inc. EODC awarding a contract with IBD Deisenroth Engineering for the Leopard 2A4 with a new evolution concept for modern full spectrum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Frankly, used equipment is often the best choice when it isn't clear yet what the permanent solution should look like. Since navy procurement is way behind schedule, the government had a tanker refitted (rather well) as a supply ship. Doesn't seem like a bad idea. But we also buy lots of new equipment. C-17s from Boeing, search and rescue planes from Airbus. CC-130J Hercules to replace older Hercules. Tanks aside, a lot of the ground vehicles are produced here in Canada. It's just the Navy that seems to have problems with its procurement programs and the inane need to keep shipyards open as instruments of regional economic development. We'd be much better off just contracting with a German shipyard to build a new frigate fleet with off the shelf NATO designs. The Aussies buy a lot of new, off the rack equipment. Canada seems to feel that it must be small batch, custom designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 All C-117’s are leased. Not purchased or owned by the RCAF. I just think front line military equipment especially ones which have “G” meters installed should have no “pre-owned” time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 9 hours ago, dagger said: Frankly, used equipment is often the best choice when it isn't clear yet what the permanent solution should look like. Since navy procurement is way behind schedule, the government had a tanker refitted (rather well) as a supply ship. Doesn't seem like a bad idea. But we also buy lots of new equipment. C-17s from Boeing, search and rescue planes from Airbus. CC-130J Hercules to replace older Hercules. Tanks aside, a lot of the ground vehicles are produced here in Canada. It's just the Navy that seems to have problems with its procurement programs and the inane need to keep shipyards open as instruments of regional economic development. We'd be much better off just contracting with a German shipyard to build a new frigate fleet with off the shelf NATO designs. The Aussies buy a lot of new, off the rack equipment. Canada seems to feel that it must be small batch, custom designs. Talking about the Navy: Liberals feel pressure over shipyard jobs Calgary Herald 17 Nov 2017 DAVID PUGLIESE MATHIEU BELANGER FOR POSTMEDIA NEWS The Davie shipyard in Levis, Que., could face layoffs if the federal government doesn’t okay the construction of a second supply ship for the Royal Canadian Navy, union and company officials say. The Liberal government is under pressure to provide more work to two of the country’s main shipyards or employees at those companies may face layoffs. Davie Shipyards could lay off hundreds of workers in Levis, Que., if the government doesn’t okay the construction of a second supply ship for the Royal Canadian Navy, company and union officials warn. At the same time, the union representing workers at the Seaspan Shipyards in Vancouver is warning that some employees it represents are facing layoffs because of downtime in the federal government’s shipbuilding program. Seaspan is building three offshore fisheries patrol vessels for the Canadian Coast Guard as part of the National Shipbuilding Strategy. But there will be a lull between the end of construction on those ships and the start of work on a fourth federal government vessel, prompting the union to sound the alarm. Tim Page, vice-president of government relations at Seaspan, said the company is trying to drum up new work from the federal government and other commercial sources to bridge the gap. “We do anticipate a production gap and while clearly not welcome, swings in a shipyard’s workforce is not unusual around the world,” Page said. “We’re doing everything we can to mitigate that gap through work that we’re competitively and aggressively competing for in both the commercial and the government environments.” Quebec’s government has taken a more aggressive approach, and is putting pressure on Justin Trudeau’s Liberals to change the National Shipbuilding Strategy to include Davie. Sources close to Davie say the Quebec government and unions are also trying to mobilize Quebec Liberal MPs to pressure their government to change the shipbuilding strategy. In 2011, when Irving on the east coast and Seaspan on the west coast were selected under the shipbuilding strategy to construct new federal government fleets, Davie was passed over in part because it was in financial trouble. But the firm is now back on its feet and wants a share of the federal shipbuilding action. Over a recent 18-month period Davie built a supply ship for the navy, which it is leasing to the federal government. Davie now wants to produce a second supply ship for the military and has also proposed providing a new icebreaker and a multi-purpose vessel. The Liberals have rejected Davie’s proposal, and Department of National Defence sources say there are currently no plans for the acquisition of a second interim supply ship. The federal government is going to invest almost $100 billion over the next 20 to 30 years on renewing its fleet, said Davie chairman Alex Vicefield, and though Quebec represents 50 per cent of Canada’s shipbuilding capacity and 23 per cent of the country’s tax base he argues it is receiving less than one per cent of federal spending on shipbuilding. Vicefield also called the current National Shipbuilding Strategy broken, and warned that federal ship fleets are rusting out and that the current strategy only covers a certain number and certain types of ships. There are many more vessels that need to be constructed, the argument goes, and Davie should be given a chance to bid on those. The federal government has also put out requests for information about smaller icebreakers. According to a company representative, Davie has such vessels ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 On 11/17/2017 at 3:40 AM, blues deville said: All C-117’s are leased. Not purchased or owned by the RCAF. I just think front line military equipment especially ones which have “G” meters installed should have no “pre-owned” time. Blues; I'm certain that all 5 CC-117 aircraft were purchased by the RCAF, not leased... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 6 hours ago, conehead said: Blues; I'm certain that all 5 CC-117 aircraft were purchased by the RCAF, not leased... C-117 were purchased... Trenton has a leased King Air but I don't know of any others here in "Dotville". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 On 11/17/2017 at 1:40 AM, blues deville said: All C-117’s are leased. Not purchased or owned by the RCAF. I think you're confused with the RAF, their C-17 lease deal became quite the scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Kip Powick said: C-117 were purchased... Trenton has a leased King Air but I don't know of any others here in "Dotville". What do they do with that King Air anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 4 hours ago, conehead said: What do they do with that King Air anyway? Not sure as it is not listed on any Squadron aircraft complement I would assume it could be used for short jaunts by the "brass-hats" to go to and from Disneyland North as well as other destinations where time is of the essence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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