Swoop??

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Critter said:

My understanding is the swoop customer will have to book a separate flight on their own or pay a fee to have the connection set up for them.

Interesting, and what about connecting baggage?  

[Guest]

On 18/10/2017 at 11:51 AM, Fido said:

 

Amadeus bought Navitaire a while back.  It did not make Navitaire any more robust and it is still only suitable for smaller simpler operations. 

According to their web site,  

Quote

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Power to Support Profitable Growth

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Ihttps://www.airlinesoftware.net/product/1262/new-skies-reservation-system

In use at more than 40 of the world’s most successful airlines — including Air Canada, Air Mekong, Air One, AirAsia, AirAsia X, AirTran, Azul, Blue Air, Canjet Airlines, Cebu Pacific, Citilink, Eastar Jet, Firefly, Germanwings, GOL, Jetstar, IndiGo, Interjet, Jazeera, Jetstar /Asia/Pacific, Liat Airlines, Mandala, Monarch, Nasair, Nok Air, Pobeda, Porter, Qantas Airways, Ryanair, Scoot, SpiceJet, Spirit Airlines, Thomas Cook, Tiger Air, Transavia, TUIfly, Viva Colombia, Volaris, Volotea, Vueling, Wizz Air

 

[FA@AC]

A very different strategy from Rouge, then, if rumours of Swoop operating strictly point-to-point are accurate.  It'll be interesting to see how things play out.

[Critter]

20 hours ago, Malcolm said:

Interesting, and what about connecting baggage?  

To the best of my knowledge, the same will apply to bags.

Swoop is going to be very bare bones but they're being up front about that fact. Industries across the board allow the customer to pick a level of service and pay accordingly. Airlines used to do that within the same aircraft (economy vs business) and seem to be moving to a model of offering entire flights under a lower price point, but with lower associated service levels.

It's hard to offer a prediction as to how successful Swoop will be. But if Canadians don't like it, then I don't think it will last long.

[Guest]

CONSUMER

 

Interesting, but they would have a larger potential passenger base if they targeted Seniors.  

December 6, 2017 12:39 pm

Updated: December 6, 2017 12:43 pm

Swoop to target millennials, young families and cross border travellers: WestJet

By Ross Marowits The Canadian Press

WestJet Airlines Inc. plans to target millennials, young families and frugal travellers for its discount carrier Swoop which launches service next summer.

The Calgary-based airline said it expects to offer fares that are about half the level of the mainline carrier, but come with hefty extra fees for bags and other ancillary services.

It estimates the net savings should be 30 to 40 per cent.

“The core of the brand is going to be low fares and enabling people to travel that wouldn’t be able to travel otherwise or travel more often,” WestJet executive vice-president Bob Cummings said Wednesday during an investor day presentation.

About 60 per cent of Swoop passengers are expected to fly for leisure travel, 30 per cent to visit friends and family and 10 per cent for business or in groups.

Cummings said WestJet “ripped apart” discount airline models used in the United States and Europe and looked at lessons they learned when designing Swoop.

The key is to cut costs to their absolute lowest by outsourcing jobs where possible, obtaining low airport charges and restricting sales to online transactions.

However, WestJet sees opportunity in eliminating the need for Canadian travellers to cross the border to access cheap fares.

Fares from Canadian airports like Hamilton and Abbotsford, B.C. are expected to be similar to those at U.S. border airports, while saving hours in traffic.

“We believe this is a substantive tried and true opportunity for us to go after,” Cummings told analysts.

The full cost of Swoop charges and destinations will be unveiled in February when tickets go on sale.

Swoop will compete against Flair Airlines, which said this week it was lifting carry-on fees, Canada Jetlines and the prospect of Air Canada Rouge and FlyToo joining the field.

At the same time, WestJet says it will go after business and international travellers by adding premium cabins with hot food, Boeing 787 Dreamliners for global destinations and new lounges at key airports such as Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto.

On Wednesday, WestJet and Delta Air Lines announced plans to form a joint venturethat will enhance transborder service and deepen their relationship.

The partnership, which has yet to be approved, is expected to be in operation in the first half of 2019. It would increase travel choices between Canada and the United States along with enhanced frequent flyer benefits.

WestJet and Delta said their preliminary agreement anticipates co-ordinated schedules for new destinations and expanded codesharing, which allows each partner to book seats on the other’s flights.

The deal with Atlanta-based Delta was announced as WestJet unveiled financial targets through 2020 that analyst Doug Taylor of Canaccord Genuity said “echo well-received guidance provided by Air Canada several months ago.”

“We believe this guidance should be seen positively on the margin as it confirms that WestJet’s multiple expansion programs are not going to come at the expense of near-term profitability and balance sheet,” Taylor wrote in a report.

WestJet said it expects annual revenues will increase by between $300 million and $500 million through 2022 from ancillary fees, an enhanced revenue management system and broadened fare products.

It has also identified annual cost savings opportunities of $140 million to $200 million over the five years from fleet reconfigurations, airport operations cost savings, optimized maintenance plans, digital self service, and sales and distribution channel efficiencies.

© 2017 The Canadian Press

[Lakelad]

.

WestJet has a radical — and risky — plan to get you on its planes

The Canadian carrier is starting a war with low-cost, no frills upstarts while also wooing the wealthy

Fri Dec 8, 2017 - Bloomberg News
by Justin Bachman and Frederic Tomesco

Out in western Canada, the airline world is about to watch a unique business experiment. If it goes as planned, in a few years there will be a new favourite carrier battling for your airfare dollars, regardless of whether you’re a penny pincher or a rich banker.

WestJet Airlines Ltd., which flies Boeing Co. 737s in Canada much the same way Southwest Airlines Co. does in the U.S., is embarking on a radical shift to become a global-network airline, replete with fancy foods, plush beds up front and nine new, spiffier airport lounges and many more top-dollar business customers. Simultaneously, it’s launching an ultra-low-cost airline called Swoop to pursue those with the smallest budgets.

This “high-end, low-end” strategy comes as airlines the world over struggle to combat the grand ambitions of lower-cost rivals. The response has largely been defensive, with new fare classes or new airlines that have lower cost structures.

WestJet had a different idea. Next June, the carrier will debut no-frills Swoop, which is modeled on ultra-low-cost carrier Ryanair Holdings Plc. Swoop is squeezing 189 seats onto its 10 Boeing 737-800s, which is 21 more seats than WestJet flies on the same airplane. It’s simultaneously preparing for the first of 10 new Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners, which arrive in January 2019, to fly to Europe and Asia, with options for 10 more of the large planes.

WestJet’s attempt to strengthen its position comes amid a collective bargaining push by employees. In May, its pilots voted to unionize, as did pilots at its regional carrier, Encore, five months later. Multiple unions are looking to organize other groups at WestJet, including flight attendants and mechanics. These efforts are likely to mean higher labour costs. With that threat hanging over its bottom line, not to mention the cost of long-haul flights, the planned expansion with Swoop and long-haul jets could endanger what is currently a profitable franchise.

WestJet executives, who are quick to boast of 50 consecutive quarters of profit, said they’re not worried.

“We just got to the point where the single brand can no longer fulfill all of the missions,” Chief Executive Officer Gregg Saretsky said Wednesday, during an investor presentation. He acknowledged the skeptical feedback his airline has received over Swoop: “Many people are scratching their heads and wondering if that will work.”

“We’ve heard concerns about execution and our ability to successfully move upmarket and downmarket at the same time,” he said.

“Our view is that the network that Swoop builds will be incremental to the WestJet network, rather than cannibalizing it,”

.

 

[conehead]

Not satisfied with what they have. Trying to be all things to all people. It’s the beginning of the end of them.

[Maverick]

1 hour ago, conehead said:

Not satisfied with what they have. Trying to be all things to all people. It’s the beginning of the end of them.

A bit premature I think? The bottom line is this, AC for the first time in a generation seems to really have their sh!t together and I applaud them, I sincerely do. WestJet has to change. This is not the 1990's, air travel is wildly different and much more commonplace. Both WJ and AC are profitable entities and I wish continued success to both. 

[blues deville]

Another 737-800 service with 189 seats?

Noope.

[Wolfhunter]

7 hours ago, Maverick said:

 Both WJ and AC are profitable entities and I wish continued success to both. 

So do I. 

It’s just that all of this taken together, strikes me as the beginning of a new era of ruinous competition. Other players will arrive on scene, cost of travel and quality of service will both decrease across the board until the point of collapse. As a prelude to this, everyone will say “yes, but this cycle is different.”

 It seems to me we have seen this before. How is the cycle avoided this time around? 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Wolfhunter said:

So do I. 

It’s just that all of this taken together, strikes me as the beginning of a new era of ruinous competition. Other players will arrive on scene, cost of travel and quality of service will both decrease across the board until the point of collapse. As a prelude to this, everyone will say “yes, but this cycle is different.”

 It seems to me we have seen this before. How is the cycle avoided this time around? 

Wolfhunter: it does seem to be just another cycle where one carrier will survive and   others will be replaced by a low cost, non union operations enjoying the benefit of lower wages, cheap used aircraft and low fuel costs. Let's hope that is not the case.  

[Maverick]

I do not believe WJ is presently in any peril at all. All the whinging about WJ becoming CAIL is just silly.

CAIL was never a profitable entity, it was run as a sexy, full-service airline where image was more important than profitability.

And before everyone everyone gets all revisionist on me, I was there for 3/4 of the time they existed.

I left because I could see that it was not going to last. Yes, we were as loyal an employee group as there ever was but in the end it mattered not at all.

[Wolfhunter]

5 hours ago, Maverick said:

 All the whinging about WJ becoming CAIL is just silly.

Not a matter of whinging, I have no dog in the fight here. It’s simply that I have watched this repeat itself in aviation and other sectors multiple times amid assurances “that this time is different”. 

I have a passing familiarity with farming and trucking; and they have similarities to aviation, like high input costs, slim margins, cut throat competition, lots of regulation etc. When pork prices bottomed (over supply) some producers switched to mink, then everyone went mink and the bottom dropped out. Some mink guys switched to hops for the craft brewing industry and that went boom / bust too. 

Anyway, I’m rooting for ya. It’s just that I always hear glad tidings of great joy just before SHTF. And, that process is usually (OK, always) underway when people “in the know” talk to me like I’m in grade 3… 

[CanadaEH]

They've added some ex-Qatar people to the inflight and catering departments in the last few weeks.

I'd expect onboard food and service to be revamped in the next year. 

[Guest]

reviews online re food on Qatar at very mixed, so I guess we can only wait and see.  Who will be providing the meals? 

[Guest]

On 06/12/2017 at 2:13 PM, Malcolm said:

CONSUMER

 

Interesting, but they would have a larger potential passenger base if they targeted Seniors.  

December 6, 2017 12:39 pm

Updated: December 6, 2017 12:43 pm

Swoop to target millennials, young families and cross border travellers: WestJet

By Ross Marowits The Canadian Press

WestJet Airlines Inc. plans to target millennials, young families and frugal travellers for its discount carrier Swoop which launches service next summer.

Commentary: An Airline Just for Millennials? Bad Idea.

 

View of the cabin of a Joon Airbus A320 taken at the Air France Industries maintenance building in Roissy, on Nov. 30, 2017, on the eve of the first commercial flights of the new airline subsidiary of Air France.

 

Eric Piermont—AFP/Getty Images

By Samuel Engel 

December 12, 2017

If there is one surefire way to design products wrong, it is to try to design products for millennials.

Remember Toyota’s Scion, targeted toward young people? The average customer age was mid-forties. How about Pivot, the TV network with the slogan, “It’s your turn”? It closed after less than three years. Against that backdrop, I have been especially curious about the launch of Air France’s new brand designed to woo young travelers.

The company has positioned Joon (like jeune, French for “young”) as a new “fashion brand, a rooftop bar, an entertainment channel, [and] a personal assistant” that “does flying too.” Seeing as the airline will launch with some of Air France’s least-efficient aircraft and the grudging participation of a strong pilots’ union, it is understandable why the company would focus attention on brand appeal rather than rock-bottom prices.

The millennial generation makes up 83 million individuals in the U.S. Getting travel right for the millennials could be the difference between success and failure for airlines and airports over the next decade. Articles come out every week telling us that young people seek experiences, orient toward value products, and demand instant connection.

The thing is, who doesn’t?

The reality is that young people have advanced our culture in every generation, whether it was flappers ushering women into social independence, the so-calledgreatest generation building a new suburban order, or boomers blasting open social norms at Woodstock. These influences may be led by the younger generations, but they permeate society and change expectations for all of us.

This is especially true with technology and its effects. Young people might be quick to try the newest tools, but sooner or later the technology either fails or becomes commonplace. Millennials are always on, but now so is everyone else. According to Apple (AAPL, -0.54%) , iPhone users unlock their phones 80 times per day. That’s not just millennials; 74% of middle-aged Americans (50 to 64 year olds) own smartphones. Mobile connectivity is no longer a young person’s monopoly.

One thing is certain: We all breathe digital air now. Thanks to millennial consumerism, we expect to have communication tailored to us in real-time and products delivered today. Marketing to only one generation alienates the rest. Further, ignoring large populations of people can have significant impacts on bottom lines for businesses across industries.

What does that mean for successful travel companies? I believe airlines and airports need to master the connected experience for millennials just as much as they do for all customers.

First, Wi-Fi is no longer an optional service. Consider how it played out in hotels. From the time that hotels first started offering Wi-Fi around 2000, it was less than three years before Wi-Fi became as standard as hot running water. Five years after that, the majority of hotels offered it for free to most of their customers.

Within the next few years, high-capacity satellite networks will enable all airlines to offer onboard broadband. As most airlines rush to equip their aircraft with traditional pay-for-service setups, JetBlue (JBLU, -2.70%) has established the future standard: free broadband for all customers, available from gate to gate. Other airlines and airports will be forced to follow suit, not just for millennials, but for all customers.

A lot of money is at stake. For a major airline, the cost of equipping a fleet of aircraft with broadband can approach $100 million. At most airlines today, wifi revenue, at less than $1 per passenger, doesn’t even cover the satellite costs. Compare that to the way airlines have learned to merchandise other services to the tune of $80 billion per year, now making up more than 10% of total airline revenue, more than double the amount from just five years ago.

Second, with a connected smartphone in every pocket, passengers expect instant communication and instant service to get the small stuff right. It’s the travel equivalent of Disney’s Magic Bands, which serves as your ride pass, your hotel key, your lunch ticket, and your connection for missing children.

Similarly, my phone knows where I am, so my airline should too. Delta recently announced a new feature to its iOS mobile app that will automatically check you into your flight. You can expect that others will be following suit before long.

The same mobile connection can also enable airports to address what today are small but frequent annoyances: arriving passengers waiting for taxis to be sent over from the taxi hold area, for example; or people who have recently landed struggling to find the pickup zone for Uber and Lyft. Meanwhile, airports struggle to bring wheelchairs to the right passengers at the right time. Either airlines and airports will communicate directly with each passenger or they will use beacons to track them through the airport and predict their needs. Or both.

Social media has already raised the stakes. If there is one area where millennials are out in front of society, it is how they interact on social. It is not so much that younger people participate more in social media—69% of all Americans use social media—it is that they are more likely to get their news and form their opinions from social media. That applies as much to viral videos of dragging passengers off the plane as it does to Yelp reviews and Facebook (FB, -1.16%) posts.

 

I’m looking forward to flying Joon. I don’t need my airline to be a fashion brand or entertainment channel. Still, if the new airline really knows how to target millennials, then they will make a great experience for all customers. If successful, the airline’s rollout is certain to raise the bar in how airlines communicate and engage with connected passengers of all ages.

Samuel Engel is the global managing director of aviation at ICF.

[Super 80]

On 12/9/2017 at 8:32 AM, Maverick said:

I do not believe WJ is presently in any peril at all. All the whinging about WJ becoming CAIL is just silly.

I am not sure it is the perfect analogy, but something about the 787 order rubs me the wrong way. If they're planning on operating extensively to Western Europe from YYZ the 787-9 is the wrong plane for the job if WestJet is still about finding efficiencies in everything they do.

[thor]

Millennials are generally living off their parents' money and living at home or close to home and meager income.

[blues deville]

11 hours ago, Super 80 said:

I am not sure it is the perfect analogy, but something about the 787 order rubs me the wrong way. If they're planning on operating extensively to Western Europe from YYZ the 787-9 is the wrong plane for the job if WestJet is still about finding efficiencies in everything they do.

I’d have to agree. It’s the wrong aircraft for their low cost model. 

[Maverick]

54 minutes ago, blues deville said:

I’d have to agree. It’s the wrong aircraft for their low cost model. 

Hmm? Norwegian, JetStar, Scoot?

[blues deville]

26 minutes ago, Maverick said:

Hmm? Norwegian, JetStar, Scoot?

Difficult to compare a Westjet to those carriers. Norwegian is breaking new ground with aircraft registration, bases and crews. Jetstar and Scoot serve populations Canada will never see. 

[ILB]

13 hours ago, Super 80 said:

I am not sure it is the perfect analogy, but something about the 787 order rubs me the wrong way. If they're planning on operating extensively to Western Europe from YYZ the 787-9 is the wrong plane for the job if WestJet is still about finding efficiencies in everything they do.

Which aircraft do you think would be better suited?

[Super 80]

2 hours ago, ILB said:

Which aircraft do you think would be better suited?

At the stage lengths in question the 767-300ER is already the right plane, if they need more capacity then it is the 777-200ER or A330-300.

United has been having a long conversation with Boeing about this as they confront replacement of their 767 fleet.

[Super 80]

3 hours ago, Maverick said:

Hmm? Norwegian, JetStar, Scoot?

Norwegian is actually operating twelve hour and longer segments with the 787, JetStar and Scoot are affiliated with airlines that will operate the 787 in large numbers and Scoot is also destined to operate long-haul.

I don't think WS is going to go swashbuckling into markets like YYZ-HKG or YYZ-NRT/HND anytime soon.

[Tango Niner]

7 minutes ago, Super 80 said:

Norwegian is actually operating twelve hour and longer segments with the 787, JetStar and Scoot are affiliated with airlines that will operate the 787 in large numbers and Scoot is also destined to operate long-haul.

I don't think WS is going to go swashbuckling into markets like YYZ-HKG or YYZ-NRT/HND anytime soon.

No, but Asia is definitely on their radar - I'm thinking from western Canada. Gregg S has stated that clearly on a couple of occasions. So, 787.