Little Hands on Experience needed

[Guest]

This is scary:

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Latest on aviation safety recommendations (all times local):

4:10 p.m.

An influential industry committee is recommending the government eliminate or scale back dozens of aviation safety rules, including one on airline pilot qualifications.

The committee voted Thursday to make the recommendations to the Federal Aviation Administration.

The committee said it was offering the recommendations in response to President Donald Trump's directives to cut government regulations. The committee was formed by the FAA and meets under its auspices.

The FAA adopted the rule on pilot qualification at Congress' direction after the last fatal crash of a U.S. passenger airliner in 2009. It requires first officers to have at least 1,500 hours of flying experience, the same minimum requirement for captains.

Works only if all the on-board systems are up to the challenge. Kin to giving a new MBA hands on control over a corporation with no regard to "Experience".  Sadly the example will only result in loss of Money, the other could result in loss of life.

The report recommends giving commercial airline pilot licenses to pilots with less than 1,500 hours if they receive acceptable academic training from their airline.

 

[Vsplat]

Amazing.  Is there nothing this idiot's regime won't tear apart? 

Give the airline control over what they think is acceptable academic training.  Hmmm.  let's see.  What could possibly influence a profit center to consider cut rate training as acceptable?  No,,,wait,,,,it'll come to me.....

Vs

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Vsplat said:

Amazing.  Is there nothing this idiot's regime won't tear apart? 

Give the airline control over what they think is acceptable academic training.  Hmmm.  let's see.  What could possibly influence a profit center to consider cut rate training as acceptable?  No,,,wait,,,,it'll come to me.....

Vs

Mind you my father had grade 6 but through self learning (Gypsy moth up) ending his career in the DC8-63, he overcame that limitation through lots and lots of work , hands on, continued learning (maths, systems etc) etc.  

[Vsplat]

Malcolm, many from the last generation achieved a great deal with not a lot of formal education, but lots of talent, horse sense,  hard work, and a system of mentoring that frankly, no longer exists the same way today.  Your father earned justifiable pride achieving what he did.  He clearly had the talent and resourcefulness to access what he needed.  Frankly, he may have had better access to real information than those trying to do the same thing in the internet age and its full volume mix of truth and BS.

When I look at the optimised training programs and accelerated movement of pilots now, it's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.  Yes, many, perhaps even most, will get through just fine.  But that is cold comfort for those whose fates are linked with those that get through with something essential missing.

And yes, I am aware that the first paragraph makes me sound like a nostalgic old curmudgeon.  It's not all bad, pilots and seniors discounts were made for each other.

FWIW

Vs

[DEFCON]

Yes, the shortage of 'qualified' individuals and lowering of standards has to be Trump's fault ...

There's a message in the politics for pilots to heed.

Pilots have always pretended to be professionals, but lacked the gonads & brains to stand up for themselves when the time came. Instead of behaving appropriately and pursuing professional standing, pilots gave up any hope of achieving status to the forces of Deregulation and entered into foolish diversionary seniority turf wars.

85% of CALPA's budget originally went to technical / air safety issues and 15% to labour relations; the organization was on track to professional standing. Following Deregulation, the percentages were reversed and greed became the driving force.

So much for the University programs too; which wannabe would waste years in a classroom when a basic CPL will get you into the airline world 7 -8 X faster?

As it now stands, so long as the public is prepared to board on the basis of hope that nothing goes wrong with the automated systems, they'll keep boarding. For me, sticking to the roads is looking like the better idea all the time.

[J.O.]

Just remember, the same people you believe are incapable of learning to operate a modern aircraft are also sharing the roads with you every day, along with thousands of their contemporaries.

[deicer]

And we all know how that's working out.  Distracted driving is now the leading factor in collisions...

https://www.thestar.com/autos/2017/07/22/distracted-driving-needs-to-stop-now.html

[Guest]

Could we be looking forward to "Distracted Aviating" ?

 

Quote

 

A survey of Canadian media consumption by Microsoft concluded that the average attention span had fallen to eight seconds, down from 12 in the year 2000. We now have a shorter attention span than goldfish, the study found.

Attention span was defined as “the amount of concentrated time on a task without becoming distracted.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/22/opinion/the-eight-second-attention-span.html?mcubz=1

 

[DEFCON]

JO

I'm certain there are all kinds of people out there capable of 'learning to operate' modern aircraft; it's just that the crucial learning phase, the one that weeds out those that should not go on, should be occurring prior to the individual's entry into the air carrier game imo.

Earning an ATP doesn't mean one has learned everything there is to know either, but the license does indicate the individual is capable of advancement; the CPL does not.

 

 

 

    

[Wolfhunter]

3 hours ago, DEFCON said:

As it now stands, so long as the public is prepared to board on the basis of hope that nothing goes wrong with the automated systems, they'll keep boarding. For me, sticking to the roads is looking like the better idea all the time.

 Me too, but I don't see it changing.

I don’t have a solution but I’m pretty sure of the cause now, and it came to me while looking for sandpaper at Canadian tire. I like Norton, it’s made in Canada and lasts way longer than the cheaper stuff that falls apart in your hands; it’s only marginally more expensive. Anyway, they didn’t have that brand and the Canadian Tire girl informed me (with lots of attitude) that “sandpaper is sandpaper.” Well, that just isn’t so but there was no sense arguing with her… off to Home Hardware. Now, country boys know how long a $12.00 shovel lasts when you are shovelling class A gravel but most city folk don’t…  you now have to special order good shovels at some smaller stores.

The problem is, we have collectively unlearned the concept of value and any old shovel is good enough, until you really need it to work and find out that it isn't up to the task. It was never really the store's fault, you wouldn't have bought a $60.00 shovel anyway.

 

 

 

[DEFCON]

"Could we be looking forward to "Distracted Aviating" ?"

A friend was on a thirty mile ILS final approach in VFR weather when his FO, the flying pilot, picked up his I phone intending to alert a buddy to his gate time'. The FO later advised; "other guys let me do it".

 

[st27]

The new reality:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4758018/Air-India-s-Anny-Divya-youngest-female-Boeing-777-pilot.html

http://www.cnn.com/travel/article/boeing-777-youngest-female-commander/index.html

"By the time I got my job I had learned a lot in life," Divya says. "I went to Spain [to train] and I've been doing big international flights for 10 years now." ...........  By doing long haul, she doesn't do a lot of ups and downs, and even if her previous commanders split legs, she'd maybe do 2 takeoffs/landings a month...say optimistically 35 a year. Hand flying...I doubt it. Total time ...guessing 5-6 thousand hours. Not a lot of experience when you think of the responsibility of commanding a triple.

Anecdotally,have heard lots of stories in that part of the world, of questionable hands and feet when the autopilot is not available. Which leads to the next statement:

"Right now I want to fly new aircrafts, with more advanced technology,"........  I personally learned more about flying a 737-200 short haul for a few years (13) than the new gee wiz a/c.

Times are changing!

But that's just the views thoughts of another old curmudgeon.

[blues deville]

14 hours ago, J.O. said:

Just remember, the same people you believe are incapable of learning to operate a modern aircraft are also sharing the roads with you every day, along with thousands of their contemporaries.

Some of these people should never have been issued a driver's permit either. 

On a recent drive home on the 401 I was following an 18 wheeler. It was wandering all over the right lane from dashed line to solid shoulder. Thought maybe wind was the cause but there wasn't any. When I finally got the nerve to pass (two lane Brighton area) I could clearly see the operator was trying to drive and text. 

[st27]

I drive the 401 as well....there is a reporting # for OPP, kinda like 911.....it's     *OPP (*677).. Used it many times for suspected drunks, unsafe vehicles, speeding etc. 

Had the satisfaction of seeing two car jockeys pulled over.....these guys were playing fast and furious at about 150 kph, one idiot even used an on ramp to pass his buddy, who was stuck in the passing lane.

[Wolfhunter]

A bit of thread drift to be sure but...

In another thread boestar posted  “13 states and one province and the worst drivers were encountered on the Ontario roads.  Sad to say that Ontario drivers are Entitled, Distracted and just plain oblivious to the rules of the road.”

I recently returned from a x-Canada motorcycle trip and totally agree with his assessment, a few observations:
- total disregard of the speed limit. During the OPEC thing (remember) liberal folk wanted to slow down and save the planet… well, not any more! 
- abject lack of enforcement, didn’t see a single police car in Ontario (east or west bound)
- two near head on collisions, had to pull off the travelled portion of the road, opposing solo never even slowed down
- crazy tailgating in the left lane (on 4 lane sections) 7-9 stupids at a time. Snowbird line astern stuff. Throw a racoon into the mix and you and you have a chain reaction accident, no maybe about it, simple physics
- It was a live cigarette butt fest. The number of live butts flicked out the windows left me wondering how you have any trees left
- motorcyclists riding left of the centre line. Feet on the highway bars, full spread, left foot left of the line… with attitude (lots and lots of it). Most riding in t-shirts too. You only have to attend one accident where people turn themselves into strawberry jello to see the VALUE of PPE... and there we are, back to value again and back on track. People watch too much TV, and it's the lack of values that prevents them from seeing the value of value. Cheers

PS

The answer to the shovel/class A gravel thing is 15 mins. I used my son’s shovel in his driveway. So, from a value perspective, that’s $0.80 per min. The only reason I used it was because I forgot mine (the one my grandfather had). He died 30 years ago… countless tons for pennies a year. MBA comments? Maybe you're hoping your shovel is never tested...

[boestar]

On 9/16/2017 at 7:26 AM, st27 said:

I drive the 401 as well....there is a reporting # for OPP, kinda like 911.....it's     *OPP (*677).. Used it many times for suspected drunks, unsafe vehicles, speeding etc. 

Had the satisfaction of seeing two car jockeys pulled over.....these guys were playing fast and furious at about 150 kph, one idiot even used an on ramp to pass his buddy, who was stuck in the passing lane.

I see people using the on ramps all the time to pass traffic.  It drives me nuts.

 

[Wolfhunter]

And in keeping with the concept of value, minimum wage vacation planners in the Ops department can cost ya too:

 

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/09/18/ryanair-cancels-50-flights-a-day-for-6-weeks-after-it-messed-up-pilots-holiday-schedule

[J.O.]

Ryanair isn't telling the whole story. They've recently lost over 100 pilots to a competitor.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-loses-140-pilots-to-norwegian-air-as-travel-chaos-continues-36141910.html