Air Canada, ACPA, amend 10-year contract

[j.k.]

unfortunately it wasn't well thought out...

new guys think they won the lottery with this new pension scheme, but really it's a wash... it will benefit some, do nothing, or even give less to others...

we gave them concessions with rouge growth, protecting the mainline fleet with baseline guarantees well below our current mainline fleet numbers/plans...

we gave them concessions by b-scaling (rouging) regional Airbus flying without limit.

we made concessions on everything from scope to schedule to pay to guarantees to premiums... there are some that we haven't even found yet and ACPA certainly isn't telling us.

... for a second rate pension, massage, $20 extra for shoes, flight attendant per diems, and J deadheads for FOs.

The saddest part is our arbitration framework agreement would have delivered most of the "improvements", including on the pension, without the concessions and certainly not the b-scaling.

ACPA laid it on thick and often though and blocked any dissenters. they pushed the fear arbitration agenda and the 53% of membership YES voters shows how close to the mark they have us targeted... the company couldn't have hoped for a better deal and knew exactly how to get it... ACPA delivered it for them.

[Kasey]

8 hours ago, j.k. said:

ACPA delivered it for them.

Again!!.......................................................

[Seeker]

On 9/14/2017 at 9:30 AM, Trader said:

I would hope there are strict rules regarding 'flexibility'!!!!  Heard the exact same thing at Emirates and now we fly 95 plus hours per month and they squeeze in a few 'short' night turns between ULRs to make sure they get 'productivity' out of the pilots. Productivity, in the view of airline managers (at least in my opinion) is not only hours flown but days off - they hate seeing pilots getting more than 8 days off a month since other workers only get 8 days off a month. Combine that with Canada's complete lack of reasonable duty regs and your asking for it. Hopefully the union has it well thought out.

Believe me, they don't have it well thought out.  The details are even worse than has been posted in this thread.  The net result of this new agreement will be mainline pilots working more days, longer days and will see more flying transferred to Rouge with even worse duty days rules and worse, or non-exisitent augmentation.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, j.k. said:

unfortunately it wasn't well thought out...

new guys think they won the lottery with this new pension scheme, but really it's a wash... it will benefit some, do nothing, or even give less to others...

we gave them concessions with rouge growth, protecting the mainline fleet with baseline guarantees well below our current mainline fleet numbers/plans...

we gave them concessions by b-scaling (rouging) regional Airbus flying without limit.

we made concessions on everything from scope to schedule to pay to guarantees to premiums... there are some that we haven't even found yet and ACPA certainly isn't telling us.

... for a second rate pension, massage, $20 extra for shoes, flight attendant per diems, and J deadheads for FOs.

The saddest part is our arbitration framework agreement would have delivered most of the "improvements", including on the pension, without the concessions and certainly not the b-scaling.

ACPA laid it on thick and often though and blocked any dissenters. they pushed the fear arbitration agenda and the 53% of membership YES voters shows how close to the mark they have us targeted... the company couldn't have hoped for a better deal and knew exactly how to get it... ACPA delivered it for them.

Hmm, should we anticipate a ground swell of support to change unions?  

[rudder]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

Hmm, should we anticipate a ground swell of support to change unions?  

The AC pilots could join ALPA anytime they want. Not sure if that is the case for UNIFOR or Teamsters (both marginal representational choices for airline pilots looking for profession specific representation with a global affiliation).

One can only presume that the AC pilots are satisfied with ACPA representation. If not, time for the members to demand change. And if leadership resists investigating a merger with ALPA - replace them. Yet another negotiations debacle should be a catalyst for consideration of leaving the ACPA experiment behind.

[DEFCON]

If you're unfortunate enough to be involved in a serious incident somewhere on the planet and the local authorities are holding you in custody until ... ; do you really want to have to turn to UNIFOR for technical & legal assistance?

 

 

 

[Critter]

I would argue that the results speak for itself. The agreement was voted in and therefore supported by the majority. 

Just because you disagree with the democratic result would hardly make it a debacle...

[Vsplat]

Interesting choice of words there Critter.  Very reminiscent of a dispatch from ACPA on the last day of the vote.

Were you perhaps involved in some aspect of creating the deal (union or management, really did not seem to be much a line drawn there) or selling it the the membership? 

Vs

[Fido]

4 hours ago, Critter said:

Just because you disagree with the democratic result would hardly make it a debacle...

Not my groundhog.

[Critter]

Actually, I have no horse in this race. Just a comment from the cheap seats.

It shouldn't surprise anymore that people surmise something must be wrong when the democratic process doesn't work in their favour.

[Zan Vetter]

If 51% would be considered an ultimate win for the company, this is painfully close to that. 

[Vsplat]

Critter, perhaps you will grant that an outsider perspective might miss an essential aspect or two.

For starters, union matters are not democratic nor is there any expectation that they be. 

There are numerous steps at which ACPA union leadership can act unilaterally and influence a vote in ways that would not be permitted in a public referendum.    Nothing illegal per the current constitution, itself modified by the self-same leadership as part of a constitutional change "brick" that passed a minimally subscribed membership vote, but things that would raise objection in political votes, say.

So  IMO the vote number says nothing about democracy though it might appear that way externally.

FWIW

Vs

[Lakelad]

.

New pilot contract allows Air Canada to expand Rouge fleet

Wed Nov 1, 2017 - The Globe and Mail

By Greg Keenan  - Airline Industry Reporter

 

A new deal Air Canada has signed with its pilots permits its Rouge airline to expand its narrow-bodied fleet as the carrier's mainline fleet grows, strengthening the company's hand as the competition with low-cost carriers heats up.

 

Under changes to its contract with pilots, Air Canada will be able to expand the fleet at low-cost Rouge by one narrow-bodied plane for every one it adds to its mainline service, and by two narrow-bodied jets for every wide-bodied plane added to the mainline fleet.

 

Amendments to the deal with the Air Canada Pilots Association, which eliminate a 50-plane limit on the Rouge fleet, were agreed to in September. The details of how the contract permits the low-cost unit to expand were not revealed at the time, but are contained in a copy of the agreement obtained by The Globe and Mail.

 

The expansion of Rouge is a key part of Air Canada's strategy to compete against ultralow-cost carriers (ULCCs) such as Canada Jetlines Ltd. and the Swoop unit of WestJet Airlines Ltd., both of which are planning to begin operations next summer.

 

"The [Rouge] model is now capable of being used to compete against anybody who comes in the market," Calin Rovinescu, Air Canada's chief executive officer, said in an interview. "From our perspective, we think we have a product that is quite competitive."

 

In the 2014 contract signed with its pilots, Rouge is limited to 25 narrow-bodied planes of the 50-aircraft overall limit.

 

Removing that limit is crucial, Mr. Rovinescu said, "because, otherwise, what you would have had to do is shift airplanes from other really good markets. So you'd have a tough choice to decide: Are you going to remove it from some markets to put it onto others?"

 

Air Canada will take delivery of two narrow-bodied Boeing 737 jets this year – the first jets from a 61-plane order – and will add six wide-bodied Boeing 787s to its mainline fleet during the rest of this year and in 2018.

 

That permits the immediate expansion of Rouge, which would be done by shifting some planes from Air Canada's Airbus A320 family now operated by its mainline service.

"You could start adding it right now and certainly in time for next summer," Mr. Rovinescu said in Toronto after speaking at an economic conference. "Some of it is market-driven, some of it is how much in advance do you start new routes."

 

What impact the changes will have on routes is still under study, he said. Air Canada executives said during an investor day presentation that expanding Rouge to regional domestic routes is one option being examined.

 

Flying an Airbus A319 that has already been paid for into Hamilton from Abbotsford, B.C., for example, could allow Rouge to compete against WestJet, which is already flying that route. Those two cities will also be the eastern Canada and western Canada bases respectively for Canada Jetlines.

 

The combination of new narrow-bodies, which includes Bombardier Inc.'s C Series planes that will be delivered beginning in 2019, means Air Canada "can look at other opportunities that weren't available to us in the past," said Ben Smith, the airline's president of passenger airlines. "Whether that's in the ULCC or LCC [markets], further leisure areas we're not competing in today or whatever competitive threat comes at us."

 

The pilot contract also permits Air Canada to shift wide-bodied Boeing 787 planes to Rouge, but only as replacements for existing Boeing 767s, not as additions to the Rouge fleet. The main focus of expansion for Rouge is narrow-bodies.

 

But using the larger Boeing 787-9 on Rouge in some international long-haul flights could make sense, said industry analyst Robert Kokonis, who heads AirTrav Inc.

 

Air Canada's mainline service between Toronto and New Delhi on a 787-9 offers 298 seats.

 

"But think about 340-350 seats on a Rouge-configured 787-9," Mr. Kokonis said. "Now you're talking."

 

Air Canada has options to acquire 13 more 787s. Delivery of the 37 planes from its firm order is scheduled to be complete in 2019.

 

The amendments to the pilot contract also outline a change in Rouge's purpose.

 

"The mandate of ACrouge is to support the strength, sustainability and growth of mainline," a clause in a letter of understanding on work rules and conditions says. Under the previous agreement with pilots, the scope of Rouge was described as being "limited to the market seeking low-cost air travel."

 

Rouge was not intended to replace mainline routes that were financially viable, the clause stated.

 

But the low-cost unit is already supplementing some mainline offerings. Air Canada mainline provides service over the Atlantic Ocean to London Heathrow, while Rouge flies into London Gatwick.

 

But, "we don't expect to have too many routes where you'd have both the Rouge and the mainline service," Mr. Rovinescu said.

.