SFO

[DEFCON]

I was only gone for for a few hours ... what happened to the thread? 

[conehead]

It was locked by someone.

[UpperDeck]

I inquired an was advised that the thread was under review.

As a very general note, I found it of considerable interest that on a different forum ( to which I was directed by a very helpful AEF denizen), the chain of comments were very similar to those on this forum including the questions regarding the CVR.

There was a lot of discussion regarding the possibility of fatigue as a factor which was referenced very early on this forum by Defcon.

That got me thinking and I read a little bit...not too much....and I learned of sleep inertia and the relevance of the maximum 40 minute "rest".

Fatigue is not something new and its impact upon flight operations has been investigated extensively.

Given an impetus to test for alcohol and drug impairment, why wouldn't there be some means of trsting a pilot on check-in for fatigue or sleep impairment? There is no suggestion of fault in any way since since one can obviously be fatigued but diligent in efforts to address the issue well before the scheduled flight.

NB...this is NOT a post about SFO!!!!

[blues deville]

Under review by whom? Has a line been crossed with regards to the discussion of this incident? 

[UpperDeck]

Being more than a little paranoid, I of course concluded I had done something wrong but checked the "rules" and could not discern any offence. I did however disagree with Vsplat very near in time to the disappearance and the last time I did that the thread also disappeared.

Is it possible........????  (Lol)

[blues deville]

32 minutes ago, UpperDeck said:

Being more than a little paranoid, I of course concluded I had done something wrong but checked the "rules" and could not discern any offence. I did however disagree with Vsplat very near in time to the disappearance and the last time I did that the thread also disappeared.

Is it possible........????  (Lol)

From some of his posts here on AEF I'd say he may hold some sort of support role with his group. That's all good and I'm not saying he had anything to do with this but AEF is a public site and I don't recall reading anything that violated forum guidelines.

Over at another aviation forum this topic is 35 pages of posts and still running. 

[Vsplat]

For the record, I am not admin.  I don't delete threads.

UD, I have no idea what 'other thread' you are talking about.   I suggest going forward, you consider commenting on topics instead of personal invective and innuendo.  But that is your choice.

Vs

[UpperDeck]

Vsplat...

 

What in the name of......are you talking about!!! Get over yourself!! It was a joking reference; hence "lol"....laugh out loud.

Innuendo....personal invective? I have to shake my head. On the now deleted thread, you suggested I would do others a favour by not making some observations. Others then posted agreeing with my observations. Your silence was deafening.

Frankly...I don't give a hoot who you are or what you do but I gather from your remarks that you sit comfortably in the left seat of a widebody. I will read your remarks on subjects within the field of your expertise and accord them the consideration I would give to the input of others with similar knowledge and experience.

You are entitled to no less....nor any more.

But...once again...lighten up! 

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, blues deville said:

From some of his posts here on AEF I'd say he may hold some sort of support role with his group. That's all good and I'm not saying he had anything to do with this but AEF is a public site and I don't recall reading anything that violated forum guidelines.

Over at another aviation forum this topic is 35 pages of posts and still running. 

This is indeed a public forum and privately operated.  From time to time threads may be closed for review or deleted. I draw your attention to the following post:

Posted July 2, 2010

To help us handle the growing number of members, to decrease the level of personal attacks and to ease the burden on our moderators we are implementing a new moderating system that has been proven effective by much larger online communities. Frankly, moderating is difficult at the best of times.

The new moderating system we are going to try is non subjective. It includes a set of guidelines for the moderators to follow. If a post is clearly prohibited it will be deleted. If the guidelines are inconclusive they recommend a progressive warning system to help ensure the online experience is succhttp://theairlinewebsite.com/topic/410833-board-rules-for-posts/

PLEASE NOTE: you will see a new bar under your name. This is a warning bar. To date no one has a warning as this is new.

We remind everyone that AEF is on the honor system and we rely upon all of you to police yourselves. Report a post has been used to send us mods notification of offending posts and we thank you for this. We encourage everyone to express themselves openly but be aware there are posting guidelines and bullying, insulting or other obnoxious behavior will not be tolerated.

We have an independent moderator using The Moderator who will consult the team if there is a point to be given. There is a process in place where upon receiving a point, to be fair, to give your point of view via PM back to The Moderator. Since this is a website, at times things may be misread.

The AEF Forum is an open and supportive community that promotes open dialogue. However, the Posting Guidelines are in place to insure a positive experience for everyone.

Graphical information on the new moderation system

1. All members will have a warning status thermometer

2. You don't need to post to see it. Look at a previous post on the left sidebar

3. Depending on the skin you have chosen, depicts the color of the bar. The colors means nothing. To change the color of your bar, simply click on the drop down menu on the left bottom of the site and change the color of your skin

 

[UpperDeck]

33 minutes ago, blues deville said:

From some of his posts here on AEF I'd say he may hold some sort of support role with his group. That's all good and I'm not saying he had anything to do with this but AEF is a public site and I don't recall reading anything that violated forum guidelines.

Over at another aviation forum this topic is 35 pages of posts and still running. 

For the record ( testing; testing)....I simply asked what happened to the thread and was "told" that it was " under review". It was accessible last night and gone this am. I know nothing more....nothing!! I have no idea who might have objected to any posts nor an inkling as to who is conducting a review.

Now speculation....that's an entirely different story. I can speculate with the best of them!! Defcon.....what have you done? ( LOL!!!!)

[DEFCON]

As Sgt. Schultz would say; 'I know nothing'.

Which of the other forums was bold enough to have allowed 33 pages of free & open discussion to take place?

 

[blues deville]

22 minutes ago, DEFCON said:

As Sgt. Schultz would say; 'I know nothing'.

Which of the other forums was bold enough to have allowed 33 pages of free & open discussion to take place?

 

The one where professional pilots exchange rumours. 

[UpperDeck]

4 hours ago, blues deville said:

The one where professional pilots exchange rumours. 

Hey! Just a sec. I read a LOT about QUIET BRIDGE on that forum and apart from a few strident voices, there seemed to be a relatively restrained exchange of opinions both from aviators and others. 

Rumours....quiet mumblings oft-repeated that are borne by the winds of discontent or.....sometimes.....by a wish to sow seeds of truth. ( Note: original thought of UD).

We are talking about Pprune(???), right?

G'night, mates.

[blues deville]

1 minute ago, UpperDeck said:

Hey! Just a sec. I read a LOT about QUIET BRIDGE on that forum and apart from a few strident voices, there seemed to be a relatively restrained exchange of opinions both from aviators and others. 

Rumours....quiet mumblings oft-repeated that are borne by the winds of discontent or.....sometimes.....by a wish to sow seeds of truth. ( Note: original thought of UD).

We are talking about Pprune(???), right?

G'night, mates.

Afirm. Nighty night. 

[DEFCON]

Marshall

"From time to time threads may be closed for review or deleted. I draw your attention to the following post:"

Okay then, the thread was closed and reviewed, now what?

I'm sure you're aware your action represents a form of censorship. Do the owners know what you're doing?

Maybe it's only me, but I think it's a little odd that that you never contribute and just happen to pop out of cyberspace from time to time to trample discussion?

If this board is to have credibility you're going to have to put your editorial reputation on the line and justify your action to the readers & contributors.Otherwise, I'd suggest you're power tripping, which means it's time for 'us' to petition Admin.

 

[blues deville]

40 minutes ago, DEFCON said:

Marshall

"From time to time threads may be closed for review or deleted. I draw your attention to the following post:"

Okay then, the thread was closed and reviewed, now what?

I'm sure you're aware your action represents a form of censorship. Do the owners know what you're doing?

Maybe it's only me, but I think it's a little odd that that you never contribute and just happen to pop out of cyberspace from time to time to trample discussion?

If this board is to have credibility you're going to have to put your editorial reputation on the line and justify your action to the readers & contributors.Otherwise, I'd suggest you're power tripping, which means it's time for 'us' to petition Admin.

 

I can only guess that posts regarding this incident have either struck a nerve or be used for other purposes as some pax on this flight were from Toronto or Canadian. Whatever the reason it's disappointing because it was an interesting technical discussion and something we can all learn from.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, DEFCON said:

Marshall

"From time to time threads may be closed for review or deleted. I draw your attention to the following post:"

Okay then, the thread was closed and reviewed, now what?

I'm sure you're aware your action represents a form of censorship. Do the owners know what you're doing?

Maybe it's only me, but I think it's a little odd that that you never contribute and just happen to pop out of cyberspace from time to time to trample discussion?

If this board is to have credibility you're going to have to put your editorial reputation on the line and justify your action to the readers & contributors.Otherwise, I'd suggest you're power tripping, which means it's time for 'us' to petition Admin.

 

Censorship ... NO!, Moderating YES, Responding to complaints about Topics YES and rest assured Admin is quite aware of the latest action in that regard. But I imagine you took the opportunity to address your concern directly with Admin but if not the capability does exist for you to PM him/her, so don't expect any further comment from me..... by the by, I am not the only moderator on this forum and it was not me who took the action to have the thread reviewed. 

[DEFCON]

"Responding to complaints about Topics"

 Am I understanding you properly; political correctness compelled the decision to eliminate the thread? If so, perhaps you could point us to the respective clause in the membership rules that applies.

I directed my question to you because I didn't think the reprint of the rules addressed Blues postulation. If you personally don't want to answer for someone else's decision it would be greatly appreciated if you'd let us know which of the 'moderators' decided to censor the discussion so we could properly direct our enquiries.

 

 

[Guest]

I guess I missed the part where you have the right to question the moderators and their actions. Admin is the only one with that right and again I suggest you address your concerns to him directly. 

[UpperDeck]

Actually, this particular subject should be of interest to ALL forum participants.

Assume the forum owners ( Admin??) are associated with Air Canada ( just for discussion). Assume that the discussion about the over-write of the CVR touched upon matters that could potentially lead to further inquiry and, as a result, there was a " request" to Admin conveyed to " pull the plug". Would that be something of concern to anyone? (Emphasis....I am just postulating!!)

Or.....one of the forum contributors is a moderator and has the delegated authority to delete a thread where he/ she is "offended" by expressed opinions with which he/ she disagrees. Is that something forum participants might find objectionable?

Or ( finally).....what if a forum contributor has some special status....perhaps a friend of the Admin or a moderator or someone in a relative position of authority and as a gesture of loyalty, a moderator or the Admin deleted a thread at the request of that contributor? Forget the word " objectionable"....is that possibility one that should give rise to concern?

Marshall has fairly stated...participants have no " right" to question any moderator. Obviously, they have no right to question the Admin. Basically, you are permitted to express an opinion ( subject to express limitations) but that is at sufferance; it is NOT a " right".

I guess it can be fairly stated--- be careful what you say and about whom for you tread upon eggshells that may not be apparent to the casual observer.

[Guest]

I know for sure, as a long time member, they have no allegiance to AirCanada.

[Guest]

DEFCON, to echo others, as a guest on this forum, why do you think you deserve to be able to second guess the moderators?  If you don't like how the forum is run or the judgment of the moderators  then you can vote with your feet and find another to post on, god knows there are lots out there. If you want a list, perhaps I can help out.  cheers Malcolm

[DEFCON]

Your skills as a moderator really are in need of some work Malcolm.(insert that smart ass smily thing you used above here)

 

[DEFCON]

When did this become 'Malcolm's Forum' Malcolm?

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, DEFCON said:

When did this become 'Malcolm's Forum' Malcolm?

much earlier than when you thought it was your forum.    Seriously though, have you ever thought of owning, funding and operating your own forum??????