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Malcolm

Westjet CEO Warns Employees about Unionization

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50 minutes ago, rudder said:

Remember the old adage - a company gets the union it deserves.

WJ/GS/CB look like a poster child for deserving a fully unionized workforce.

True words.  The greed can only be masked for so long.

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4 hours ago, DEFCON said:

Saretsky may not like unionization, but it would probably be a lot better for all stakeholders if he were to embrace the change instead of fighting what was inevitable anyway.

Saretsky was at Alaska when they fired their unionized ramp and heavy maintenance and got a 25% cut out of their pilots. I wouldn't hold out for him evolving much if he thinks that is the way it's done.

Edited by Super 80

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So long as the CLRB plays fair and sensible, attributes they're not really known for, any imposed settlement is likely to mirror the wawcon of the competitor. The Board would never reinvent the wheel and cook up a first CA that breaks the mold and leads to claims the new agreement places one carrier, or the other at a competitive disadvantage.

 

 

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3 hours ago, DEFCON said:

So long as the CLRB plays fair and sensible, attributes they're not really known for, any imposed settlement is likely to mirror the wawcon of the competitor. The Board would never reinvent the wheel and cook up a first CA that breaks the mold and leads to claims the new agreement places one carrier, or the other at a competitive disadvantage.

 

The history of first contract arbitration in various Canadian jurisdictions is that the arbitrator acting for the board does not break new ground. The first goal is to put in place basic rights and a system to gain redress of grievances. Money, working rules and conditions, will not break new ground, and certainly will not set any precedents for the industry unless they are in areas of mutual agreement to begin with (unlikely). The idea behind first contract arbitration is to give the two sides a chance to get to know each other over a two year period in a more routine manner, with a rule book and a process on which to conduct their affairs. Of course, if two years isn't followed by a more "normal" negotiation for a second contract where both sides expect to settle on a middle ground, then there will be no second arbitration, just a very acrimonious confrontation.

Edited by dagger
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17 hours ago, Ex 9A Guy said:

True words.  The greed can only be masked for so long.

True words? Rudder was a long time ALPA official. Of course he is going to parrot a Marxist's view of the world and support the organization that fed and clothed him for so long.

 

Greed is at the foundation of every capitalist venture. Perhaps Ex 9A Guy would be happier in those successful centrally planned economies of 20th century East Europe which were apparently a worker's paradise. But then, they exist in the same place that "9A" does: history books, under the heading of failed experiments.

 

I certainly hope that the first CBA at WJ will allow me to make $370,000 like I did in 2017 as a line pilot in a non-seniority environment, but I won't hold my greedy capitalist breath, Comrade.

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1 hour ago, johnny dangerous said:

IMG_0824.jpeg

Pilots and old school police detectives.  The only people in the world who still think short sleeved dress shirts with ties are acceptable.

1fe92dec7f65efefae4e85ba5f6be9fd.jpg

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You’re certainly entitled to your opinion JD about the pilot situation at WS but why hang out dirty laundry on this forum? Perhaps there are more WS lurkers than posters but it’s really not that interesting to outsiders.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong. :) 

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32 minutes ago, Newman said:

Pilots and old school police detectives.  The only people in the world who still think short sleeved dress shirts with ties are acceptable.

Perhaps you are not aware that the reason pilots wear short sleeve shirts is one of safety.

Pilots wear short sleeve shirts so that their cuffs, (on a long sleeve shirt), do not unintentionally become snagged on a switch/thrust lever etc. while manipulating the controls. Unintentional movement of a lever could have dire consequences.

I am  not sure about today but many pilots opted for clip on ties as well. They were worn  in the days when a pilot may have to go back and calm an anxious or aggressive passenger. The clip on alleviated the possibility of the passenger grabbing the pilots tie and choking or dragging him down..

You may have seen photos, and in movies, pilots wearing their tunic and company cap while flying but that is pure BS and never seen in the cockpit  .....at least in my lifetime. In fact many pilots even remove their ties on every flight ...while in the pointy end.;)

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39 minutes ago, blues deville said:

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion JD about the pilot situation at WS but why hang out dirty laundry on this forum? Perhaps there are more WS lurkers than posters but it’s really not that interesting to outsiders.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong. :) 

Not wrong at all bd.

He’s trolling on here just like on Avcanada as NCP.

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8 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:

Perhaps you are not aware that the reason pilots wear short sleeve shirts is one of safety.

Pilots wear short sleeve shirts so that their cuffs, (on a long sleeve shirt), do not unintentionally become snagged on a switch/thrust lever etc. while manipulating the controls. Unintentional movement of a lever could have dire consequences.

I am  not sure about today but many pilots opted for clip on ties as well. They were worn  in the days when a pilot may have to go back and calm an anxious or aggressive passenger. The clip on alleviated the possibility of the passenger grabbing the pilots tie and choking or dragging him down..

You may have seen photos, and in movies, pilots wearing their tunic and company cap while flying but that is pure BS and never seen in the cockpit  .....at least in my lifetime. In fact many pilots even remove their ties on every flight ...while in the pointy end.;)

100%.

Summer, winter, spring or fall. It’s always a cozy in the flight deck so my choice of shirt has always been short sleeved. Tie loose or hanging up. 

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28 minutes ago, conehead said:

I dunno, it’s kind of entertaining! :)

Haha. Perhaps conehead but not in a healthy way. And some of these young Westjetters don’t realize they’re not the first airline to go through this union process. 

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55 minutes ago, blues deville said:

Haha. Perhaps conehead but not in a healthy way. And some of these young Westjetters don’t realize they’re not the first airline to go through this union process. 

That’s why they bought into the BS of the disgruntled WPPA boys who wanted control but found another avenue. Will be interested to watch them see hoe ALPA destroy what the wjpa have achieved, even when mistakes were made. The only hope for the future is to decertify ALPA before it’s too late. 

Now, you who will call me all the various names, how do you reconcile the fact that talks are going nowhere, while with the wjpa, talks did proceed and the pilots always came out ahead. 

Flame away

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"The only hope for the future is to decertify ALPA before it’s too late."

ALPA is not the antichrist.

Besides, what makes you think you're going to earn less with ALPA representing instead of the WJPA?

   

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2% dues vs $20 per pay. Many unions think gaining 2% raise is a win. After first contract, we all get a pay cut. Yes I know, tax deductible, but it’s still more coming out vs $20 that’s not tax deductible. 

Lol

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My bet is that the coming confrontation is heading to first contract arbitration because both sides want it. WJA doesn't want to start losing a lot of revenue with strike talk - helping stabilize the new ULCCs domestically and the Icelandic and Norwegian discounters serving markets like Cda-Ldn. Nor does it want to look pathologically anti-union, certainly not any more than they already do. They have the ardent anti-union customers already but can lose a chunk of the population by looking rabidly anti-union. ALPA doesn't want to look like wild-eyed crazies to its own new membership, but responsible types who want a just contract, and would rather do it in a manner that brings some of the reluctants on board rather than alienating them further. And the feds aren't going to want any job action either.

So I am betting this dispute will drag out at a low boil, until the conciliation/mediation options are exhausted, then the excuses will be found to move things off the stove. Now, come 2020, for a second contract, well, then all bets are off.

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5 hours ago, Boney said:

That’s why they bought into the BS of the disgruntled WPPA boys who wanted control but found another avenue. Will be interested to watch them see hoe ALPA destroy what the wjpa have achieved, even when mistakes were made. The only hope for the future is to decertify ALPA before it’s too late. 

Now, you who will call me all the various names, how do you reconcile the fact that talks are going nowhere, while with the wjpa, talks did proceed and the pilots always came out ahead. 

Flame away

You truly cannot be that naive and still operate an airliner, can you?  

WestJet drew first blood by filing a ULP accusing ALPA of doing exactly what they themselves have been doing for the last 6 months, they even admitted as much in their own submission. 

Why do you grant omnipotent powers to a corporation behaving petulantly and have absolutely no respect for the will of a majority of your peers?

The pilots always came out ahead!  You must do a different kind of math than I do.  We are so far behind the power curve we are stalling.  

WestJet has had a heck of a bargain on pilot labour for 20+ years with the help of an in-house association masking the real figures. This is a new era of financial disclosure for WestJet pilots.  

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10 hours ago, johnny dangerous said:

True words? Rudder was a long time ALPA official. Of course he is going to parrot a Marxist's view of the world and support the organization that fed and clothed him for so long.

 

Greed is at the foundation of every capitalist venture. Perhaps Ex 9A Guy would be happier in those successful centrally planned economies of 20th century East Europe which were apparently a worker's paradise. But then, they exist in the same place that "9A" does: history books, under the heading of failed experiments.

 

I certainly hope that the first CBA at WJ will allow me to make $370,000 like I did in 2017 as a line pilot in a non-seniority environment, but I won't hold my greedy capitalist breath, Comrade.

Settle down John(ny)

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On 2/10/2018 at 9:08 AM, johnny dangerous said:

Come to think of it, I think I'm going to enjoy the spectacle of Ex-9A Guy and his mostly white male colleagues try their hand at identity politics and cast themselves as the victims of the big bad Capitalist machine. The ALPA MEC at WJ is dipping their toes into the water now. I can't wait to see how the downtrodden masses are portrayed in the months to come. I'll dig out some thumbworn copies of George Orwell Penguin classics from my university days and get caught up to speed on how the poor fare under the yoke of oppression.

In the current battlefield for the hearts and minds of Canadians, I'm guessing the WJ pilot group, who likely resemble the photo attached of JetBlue pilots from a gathering 18 months ago, will face some uphill battles as they try to carry the victim yoke. What, with illusory gender wage gaps taking foot (and mind) hold showing men (mostly white) to be oppressors, and #metoo movements showing men (mostly white) to be oppressors and rascist overtones in shooting of natives and blacks by cops (or farmers) showing men (mostly white) to be oppressors, I say good luck!

If I had one suggestion for the WJ MEC, it would be to find as many POC's (pilots of colour) and women and put them front and center in your promo's. 

You're going to need them.

 

IMG_0824.jpeg

Someone needs a sanity break.

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On 2018-02-09 at 11:26 AM, Ex 9A Guy said:

True words.  The greed can only be masked for so long.

That is an interesting statement since WJ is unique in Canada if not North America, in sharing any gains and profits with it’s pilots and other employees through it’s meaningful profit sharing, 20% stock purchase plan, stock options, restricted share units, owners performance awards etc, aside from unlimited ability to earn extra through overtime and pickup, if someone is interested.

  When the company does well, the pilots get a significant piece of the upside.  The T4 numbers don’t lie.   That is still the case today, as it has been for almost 22 years, and some people still can’t get their head around our compensation system, even though it is quite simple.

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20 hours ago, Ex 9A Guy said:

You truly cannot be that naive and still operate an airliner, can you?  

WestJet drew first blood by filing a ULP accusing ALPA of doing exactly what they themselves have been doing for the last 6 months, they even admitted as much in their own submission. 

Why do you grant omnipotent powers to a corporation behaving petulantly and have absolutely no respect for the will of a majority of your peers?

The pilots always came out ahead!  You must do a different kind of math than I do.  We are so far behind the power curve we are stalling.  

WestJet has had a heck of a bargain on pilot labour for 20+ years with the help of an in-house association masking the real figures. This is a new era of financial disclosure for WestJet pilots.  

The numbers don’t lie, unless you only read one side of the story, such as the ALPA compensation comparator document which conveniently omits major compensation additions which adds at least 30 percent and  up  increase in total compensation when comparing WJ pilots to other airlines, and isnt even mentioned or compared to AC or AT, on hourly cockpit costs,  block hourly and many other comparators, so is not an apples to apples comparison. 

When you do the math, it’s really pretty simple, but it has to be done honestly, and it’s just a different way of getting paid then the traditional airline model, but has resulted in greater upside and T4’s for almost 22 years for WJ pilots, ESPECIALLY for those that took a bit of time to understand and take advantage of it’s greater money making ability then the traditional model.

Please spare us the usual adversarial  rhetoric, and stick to the facts, as they stand on their own merits.

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