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Malcolm

Sharing the cost of legalized Marijuana

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Funny.  I have see numerous commentaries by "scientists" where their comments were basically "We don't know because studies have never been done".  This gets repeated consistently.  If there have been no studies there where is there any scientific proof.

Smoke em if you got em.

 

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Senators recommend delaying cannabis bill for a year to address Indigenous issues

First Nations say their governments will face new social challenges from legal cannabis.

 

 

Members of the Senate's Aboriginal peoples committee are recommending the Liberal government hold back on legalizing cannabis for up to a year in order to address its potential for harmful effects in Indigenous communities.

The committee, chaired by Liberal Saskatchewan Sen. Lillian Dyck, said in its report on Bill C-45 that the government simply did not consult enough with First Nations, Inuit and Métis communities before pushing ahead with its plan to legalize the drug.

"Many communities are really worried about the potential adverse effects on their members, and especially on their youth, and it may be even worse because of the trauma in their communities," Dyck said, adding existing social issues in Indigenous communities could be made worse by increased drug use.

If passed, the amendment would delay the bill's full implementation for up to a year.

As currently written, the bill stipulates the law does not come into force until a date is fixed by an order of the governor-in-council — Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's cabinet. A final vote on the bill is scheduled to occur in the Senate on or before June 7, with legalization expected to follow eight to 12 weeks later.

The committee said the government should take that time to negotiate a revenue-sharing agreement with First Nations communities.

The committee has heeded a request from Manny Jules, the chief commissioner of the First Nations Tax Commission, who recommended the federal government and the provinces hand cannabis taxing authority over to First Nations governments so they can impose their own levy on marijuana grown and sold on reserves.

"The way the bill has been crafted shows there was very little consultation," Conservative Alberta Sen. Scott Tannas told reporters.

 

 

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/senate-cannabis-legislation-indigenous-1.4643590

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Everybody is already smoking it.  All this does is make them not a criminal for smoking it.

 

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The government should just decriminalize pot and get on with screwing up the rest of the country.  Sure would save time and money

 

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1 hour ago, deicer said:

So 14% of Canadians use weed regularly and Trudeau’s answer is to try and get the entire country hooked on drugs simply to increase his tax  stream. One would think his job should be is to get help for the 14%, not addict the other 86%  Can’t say I’m really surprised anymore as this is Trudeau we are talking about. He always manages to set the bar as low as possible and exceeds our expectations every time. Pathetic.

Edited by Jaydee
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"Senators recommend delaying cannabis bill for a year to address Indigenous issues"

 

 

 

 

I predicted legalization wouldn't happen.

This native thing is just an excuse to delay the matter perpetually.

Reserves are already largely lawless places and it's already widely known that many are making tons of cash growing and selling pot. Their only true concern is that legalization will put them out of business.

 

 

Edited by DEFCON

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Trudeau won't say whether Liberals will delay cannabis legalization

In this April 12, 2018 file photo, nugs of marijuana await packaging at the Hollingsworth Cannabis Company near Shelton, Wash. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren, File)


The Canadian Press
Published Wednesday, May 2, 2018 11:57AM EDT

OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Justin Trudeau left the door open Wednesday to a possible delay in enacting his government's cannabis legalization bill -- a move recommended by a Senate committee concerned with Indigenous issues.

In a report issued Tuesday, the Senate aboriginal peoples committee called on the government to put off legalizing marijuana for up to a year so broader consultations on the matter could take place with Indigenous communities.

The report said the government's "atrocious" lack of proper consultation on its cannabis bill undermines its claims to be trying to have a new and better relationship with Indigenous peoples.

When asked whether he'd be willing to delay implementing Bill C-45, Trudeau didn't answer directly, but indicated the Liberals will forge ahead with their plan to legalize marijuana for recreational use.

"We'll continue to consult a broad range of Canadians," Trudeau said as he entered a meeting of his caucus.

"And as our parliamentary secretary Bill Blair says regularly, legalization is not an event, it's a process," he added.

"And that process will continue

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5 hours ago, Jaydee said:

So 14% of Canadians use weed regularly and Trudeau’s answer is to try and get the entire country hooked on drugs simply to increase his tax  stream. One would think his job should be is to get help for the 14%, not addict the other 86%  Can’t say I’m really surprised anymore as this is Trudeau we are talking about. He always manages to set the bar as low as possible and exceeds our expectations every time. Pathetic.

If 14% of Canadians using pot is a problem, what about the 19% of Canadians that are classified as heavy alcohol drinkers?  Maybe they should put as much focus on that extremely dangerous drug as it has been proven to be an even more costly problem.

https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-625-x/2017001/article/54861-eng.htm

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1 hour ago, deicer said:

If 14% of Canadians using pot is a problem, what about the 19% of Canadians that are classified as heavy alcohol drinkers?  Maybe they should put as much focus on that extremely dangerous drug as it has been proven to be an even more costly problem.

https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-625-x/2017001/article/54861-eng.htm

deicer: adding another wrong does not = a "Right".  

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Yes Malcolm,

However,  history is repeating itself again.   We are just going through the modern day 'Prohibition' period for pot. 

Like alcohol, it will go through the same twists and turns on the road to being legitimized.

 

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16 hours ago, deicer said:

Yes Malcolm,

However,  history is repeating itself again.   We are just going through the modern day 'Prohibition' period for pot. 

Like alcohol, it will go through the same twists and turns on the road to being legitimized.

 

No not at all. The evils / effects of alcohol are known and date back to pre bc, the evils and effects on users of pot are uncharted / quantified  at this time.

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and yet people are saying its bad.  Which is it?  unknown or bad?

 

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12 hours ago, Malcolm said:

No not at all. The evils / effects of alcohol are know and date back to pre bc, the evils and effects on users of pot are uncharted / quantified  at this time.

Moot point. Pot has been around just as long.  The only reason it has been vilified is because it is basically a weed that pharmaceutical companies can't make huge profits off of. 

https://www.medicaldaily.com/brief-history-medical-cannabis-ancient-anesthesia-modern-dispensary-370344

 

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1 hour ago, boestar said:

and yet people are saying its bad.  Which is it?  unknown or bad?

 

This is a huge tax source, that’s motivation enough for the government. Since I don’t trust them to fill pot holes, I would expect a few growing pains here.

The notion of “no evidence” reminds me of the smoking debate when I was a kid. We just got that partially contained and are now about to embark on a new health problem. Thinking that smoking a weed (of any sort) comes without potential health problems strikes me as naive at best.

The whole “alcohol is just as bad” notion qualifies as a classic example of the “fallacy of relative proportion”. An argument technique that only works when you have run out of ideas. You could say that almost everything is worse (or better) than something else, so if it's not the worst thing it clearly doesn't matter. If that's your theory, I have a shopping list....

Edited by Wolfhunter
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In our society that cherishes 'freedom', why is it that one drug is approved yet another is shunned?  I think that it is the establishment that has run out of ideas to control society.

Let me preface the following with this.  I do not use pot, or any of it's derivatives, or any other illicit drug.

When it comes to drug use, I have seen the effects of alcohol and the wake of damage it leaves.  I have seen people use pot, and the effects that they display, both during and after.

Alcohol is by far the more damaging substance.  

So if it is a case of controlling a dangerous substance, more should be done about alcohol.

 

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20 minutes ago, deicer said:

Alcohol is by far the more damaging substance.  

So if it is a case of controlling a dangerous substance, more should be done about alcohol.

 

You are doing it again…

The decision to legalize pot (or anything else for that matter) should be a stand alone, thoughtful decision based on its own merits and associated risk /reward assessment. Good Lord, you don’t legalize something simply because something else is worse. It’s not a very good strategy; and if it is, well, I can entertain you a some length with illustrations as I present my shopping list.

If I went poof and imposed severe restrictions on alcohol would you change your mind about pot? If so, the push to legalization is, by default, untenable. And, if not, the alcohol correlation has little merit. The decision needs to stand on its own legs... if its sober enough.

 

 

Edited by Wolfhunter

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I am not advocating that pot should be judged different because something is worse, what I am advocating is that is should be judged using the same criteria.  

Therefore, if part of society says pot is so evil, look at it in the same light as you do alcohol.  So looking at the scientific results of the use of both, as well as the criminal effects of using said substances, then by all means either ban both, or legalise both.

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54 minutes ago, deicer said:

I am not advocating that pot should be judged different because something is worse, what I am advocating is that is should be judged using the same criteria.  

Therefore, if part of society says pot is so evil, look at it in the same light as you do alcohol.  So looking at the scientific results of the use of both, as well as the criminal effects of using said substances, then by all means either ban both, or legalise both.

Well here in Alberta, at least in Calgary, it is being judged based on that it is a drug and of course the smoking version does have some know problems (2nd hand smoke etc). So here is what the city of Calgary has ruled.

Quote

Public consumption of cannabis

 

At this time, the sale and possession of non-medical cannabis remains illegal. The exact date of cannabis legalization is yet to be confirmed, however the federal government has indicated it is still working towards summer, 2018.

Violating the Cannabis Consumption Bylaw can mean a ticket ranging from $50-100. This is effective the day the bylaw becomes law.

Using cannabis on private property

Under Provincial and Municipal laws, a person can smoke, vape or otherwise consume cannabis on their private property.

The City of Calgary does not regulate use on private property.

The City will view cannabis smoke in the same way as cigarette or fire-pit smoke. It may annoying to some, but it is legal.

Unless smoke is over and above what one could expect from day-to-day activities, it is considered part and parcel of city living.

Using cannabis on rental property and in condos

Rental properties may forbid cannabis consumption.

Landlord/tenant agreements or condo bylaws can restrict cannabis consumption under Provincial law.

We encourage you to talk to your landlord about edible cannabis products. Although edible cannabis products such as brownies and cookies cannot be legally sold until further federal and provincial regulations, edible cannabis products may be made at home. If you live in a rental unit or condo, you might consider discussing with your landlord or condo board whether rules would allow for edibles to be made in your building.

Cannabis and Calgary's public spaces

As part of the new Cannabis Consumption Bylaw, public use rules for cannabis are like those for public consumption of alcohol.

It will be illegal to consume cannabis in any form (smoking, vaping, or edibles) in public places. An exemption will apply for medical cannabis.

Council has asked Administration to return in the coming months with considerations for designated cannabis consumption areas. 

Public consumption is also regulated by the provincial government. The following regulations apply throughout Alberta:

  • Cannabis consumption is not allowed in vehicles.
  • There will be no consumption of cannabis at any cannabis retail outlets.
  • Landlord/tenant agreements or condo bylaws may restrict cannabis consumption in rental units.

Calgary's rule of preventing public cannabis use is a best practice in all other North American jurisdictions that have legalized use. It also reflects the concerns Calgarians expressed in our research and engagement efforts.

 

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StatsCannabis: Canadians puff, puff, pass along how much they pay for pot

Brandon Bartelds smokes three joints at once while attending the 4-20 annual marijuana celebration, in Vancouver, B.C., on Friday April 20, 2018. (THE CANADIAN PRESS/Darryl Dyck)

Jeff Lagerquist, CTVNews.ca Writer

@jefflagerquist


Published Thursday, May 3, 2018 11:54AM EDT

Marijuana may not be fully legalized until July at the earliest, but tens of thousands of Canadians are already telling Statistics Canada how much they pay for the drug.

The federal agency’s crowdsourced StatsCannabis platform tracks the price per dried gram across various regions. The currently indicated nationwide price for medical and non-medical purposes is $6.80 per gram. Quebec has the lowest pot price at $5.86. The territories are paying top dollar at $9.51.The current set of data was collected between Jan. 25 and April 24. Participants were asked for the price they paid for common denominations of pot, from a single gram up to an ounce, as well as the quality, ranging from low to high, and to indicate if it was for medical or recreational use.

According to the StatsCannabis website, the data is used for research purposes and evaluating of the cannabis sector’s role in the Canadian economy.

The latest Canada-wide StatsCannabis price represents a slight decrease from the $6.96 per gram quoted for March.

The website assures users that all submissions are anonymous, employing red lettering and exclamation points to assuage concerns about privacy. Statistics Canada said it received 18,260 responses between Jan. 25 and March 2018.

In addition to price data, the agency is also monitoring frequency of marijuana use in some of the nation’s largest urban centres. Western cities ranked the highest. Based on the respondents to the StatsCannabis hub, daily cannabis users represented 59 per cent of respondents in Edmonton, 58 per cent in Vancouver, and 56 per cent in Calgary. Montreal and Quebec City had the smallest proportion of daily users, at 43 per cent and 42 per cent respectively.

However, recreational use was found to be highest in Montreal and Quebec City. Over 80 per cent of respondents indicated using cannabis for recreational purposes. This contrasts with Calgary and Edmonton, where roughly half of the respondents indicated using cannabis for medical purposes.

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The Senate was supposed to be the Chamber of Sober Second Thought. But I guess that means nothing to our PM when they question his desires.

 

Trudeau says pot will be legal this summer, despite calls for delay

Trudeau

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau attends a Liberal Party fundraiser, in Toronto on Wednesday, March 7, 2018. (THE CANADIAN PRESS / Chris Young)

 
 

The Canadian Press
Published Thursday, May 3, 2018 2:28PM EDT

OTTAWA - Prime Minister Justin Trudeau isn't backing down from his government's much-maligned timeline for legalizing marijuana, despite a growing chorus of calls from senators, Indigenous leaders and others to delay the plan for up to a year.

Trudeau says the plan to make recreational pot legal by this summer will go ahead without delay.

That declaration follows comments Wednesday that suggested he was open to slowing down the process, following a Senate committee report calling for more consultation with First Nations on taxation, education materials and addictions treatment.

 

Trudeau says every single day that marijuana remains illegal, Canadians are being harmed, proving that the current approach is not working.

He says legalizing the drug will take control away from criminal organizations and drug dealers.

But he also says legalization is a process, one that will involve continued work with provinces, municipalities and Indigenous leaders to ensure the law is rolled out properly.

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There are going to be a lot of marijuana companies at all levels (growers, wholesalers, retailers) that will be mighty **bleep** off if they cannot be legal by summer.

There is one store in Edmonton that has been leased by a cannabis company for the past seven months at a good guess says $60,000 a month. It is a corner location of two busy streets in a popular retail/nightclub area so to just sit there while the government diddles around.

The rent still needs to be paid.

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1 hour ago, Fido said:

There are going to be a lot of marijuana companies at all levels (growers, wholesalers, retailers) that will be mighty **bleep** off if they cannot be legal by summer.

There is one store in Edmonton that has been leased by a cannabis company for the past seven months at a good guess says $60,000 a month. It is a corner location of two busy streets in a popular retail/nightclub area so to just sit there while the government diddles around.

The rent still needs to be paid.

Frankly I don't give a good dog (god) damned if folks are inconvenienced if we need to delay to  get the PM's whim  RIGHT.  From the last stats Canada survey, legal weed will be more expensive that illegal weed and therefore not likely to remove the bad guys from the sales.  In the mean time we do need to consider the what ifs when more people use the weed when it becomes legal.  

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Here's the rub. The people have had at least fifty years to get their act together in respect of pot and all their health / societal concerns, but they largely didn't and now would seek another thirty years to study the matter.

Also, there have already been quite a few studies completed over the years which have examined pretty much all of the relative aspects of the issue and although it may be unfortunate for the anti side, its near impossible to find a legitimate study that has produced a negative finding.

I'm not sure if full legalization is a good idea, or not, but I do think it's 'high' time to take the criminality out of responsible personal consumption.

 

  

  

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4 hours ago, DEFCON said:

Here's the rub. The people have had at least fifty years to get their act together in respect of pot and all their health / societal concerns, but they largely didn't and now would seek another thirty years to study the matter.

Also, there have already been quite a few studies completed over the years which have examined pretty much all of the relative aspects of the issue and although it may be unfortunate for the anti side, its near impossible to find a legitimate study that has produced a negative finding.

I'm not sure if full legalization is a good idea, or not, but I do think it's 'high' time to take the criminality out of responsible personal consumption.

 

  

  

Defcon: the rub is light because the ability to do in-depth studies of the effects of an illegal drug are very limited.  

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