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Jaydee

Air Canada's "Over Booking" problem.

39 posts in this topic

39 minutes ago, Jaydee said:

There must be more to this story.  I doubt AC would bump a  minor and leave his parents onboard and since they were evidently ticked through to an international destination I would bet their priority was much higher than others on the flight.  

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http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-canada-bumping-overbooking-airline-1.4060820

Sounds unacceptable but is it really? Buddy here says He was a fully paid customer, but later in the article it says he booked on points.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/dream-vacation-a-bust-after-air-canada-says-friends-can-t-board-flight-1.4067406

Sounds unacceptable but reading the article, how does Air Canada solely take the blame? The customers book through an agency who purchases seats on Lufthansa who then subs the seats to AC. AC then says they're full and puts them on standby.Doesn't the agency bear some responsibility here for not following up on the product? And why wouldn't LH get back to the agency and tell them of the standby situation. And finally, why would the passengers wait til checkin at the airport to Get their seats?

I find the CBC looking at one carrier in particular. There is more than one carrier flying in and out of this country. Where was the CBC when WJ was having all the cancellation introducing the 67 into the fleet?

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1 hour ago, st27 said:

Where was the CBC when WJ was having all the cancellation introducing the 67 into the fleet?

Front and centre?

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Fair enough but AC still seems to get dragged through the mud quite abit. Kinda like the 6 degrees of Air Canada.

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And the Canadian airline industry continues their aggressive lobbying campaign to see to it that the pax experience comes to be the subject of heavy handed regulation.

Enjoy the Canadian version of EC261 schmucks.

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5 minutes ago, Super 80 said:

And the Canadian airline industry continues their aggressive lobbying campaign to see to it that the pax experience comes to be the subject of heavy handed regulation.

Enjoy the Canadian version of EC261 schmucks.

?????

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Canadian airlines are once again going to be heavily regulated and it's their own fault.

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49 minutes ago, Super 80 said:

Canadian airlines are once again going to be heavily regulated and it's their own fault.

why would you assume that?  WestJet says it doesn't overbook, both carriers as well as the smaller ones have filed very clear tariffs that outline what they will do in the event of denied boarding etc.? Neither have ever injured anyone who was removed from their aircraft. The only problem is no tariff guards against stupidity by the passenger. Both majors feature booking 24 hours in advance complete with free seat selection, if this is not taken advantage of how can the carrier be at fault./??perhaps all will be the victim of the "it is not my fault" belief of some generations. :ph34r:

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I suggest you direct that question to the transportation minister.

http://mgarneau.liberal.ca/en/news-nouvelles/ottawa-to-introduce-legislation-to-address-airline-bumping/

http://mgarneau.liberal.ca/en/news-nouvelles/liberal-transport-plan-loosens-rules-on-foreign-ownership-of-airlines-promises-passenger-rights-regime/

The occasional traveler who is not as well informed as airline employees of flyertalk dweebs should not be disadvantaged because they don't know what a sequence number is, don't know to check-in precisely 24 hours ahead of time and would never think it necessary to make special arrangements so they might sit with their children. If you make industry practices completely non-intuitive to your own customers you can't expect a sympathetic audience with regulators.

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There is nothing that the airlines can do plus or minus.

The travelling public want to be 110% protected from things that they do not understand and do not want to deal with.

Put that with a government that loves to regulate even if it is by silly non-effective regulations then that is what they will do.

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44 minutes ago, Fido said:

The travelling public want to be 110% protected from things that they do not understand and do not want to deal with.

I understand the business case for over booking, but still, I’m envious. If I sell a single product unit to multiple buyers for different prices it’s called fraud.

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3 hours ago, Fido said:

There is nothing that the airlines can do plus or minus.

There is plenty they could have done, or rather not have done. Now the airlines get to be regulated by interventionist politicians appealing to the angry mob. Then I guess at that moment Air Canada and WestJet can look at themselves in the mirror and ask themselves if monetizing seat selection was worth it.

golf clap, golf clap.

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12 hours ago, Wolfhunter said:

I understand the business case for over booking, but still, I’m envious. If I sell a single product unit to multiple buyers for different prices it’s called fraud.

A friend of mine used to be a Season Ticket holder for the Brampton Battalion, a OHL hockey club (before they moved to North Bay). Several times, my friend arrived at the arena to watch a game and found that they had sold his seat to someone else. My friend was not happy about this, and one day he had the opportunity to speak with the owner of the club, at which time he was able to express his displeasure. The owners response was "Meh, tough luck for you."

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What if they make airline tickets like theatre tickets? You only sell the inventory you have, and if the patron doesn't show up for the performance, tough, no refunds, no rebooking?

:ph34r:

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30 minutes ago, deicer said:

What if they make airline tickets like theatre tickets? You only sell the inventory you have, and if the patron doesn't show up for the performance, tough, no refunds, no rebooking?

:ph34r:

Don't think it would work.......how would you like to pay $ XXXX.00  for a ticket  to fly to "Paradise" and then have a death in the family.......and no refund or no rebooking ???

Theatre tickets can be expensive but nowhere near the cost of a long distance flight

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Just now, Kip Powick said:

Don't think it would work.......how would you like to pay $ XXXX.00  for a ticket  to fly to "Paradise" and then have a death in the family.......and no refund or no rebooking ???

Theatre tickets can be expensive but nowhere near the cost of a long distance flight

You buy cancellation insurance.?

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3 minutes ago, Jaydee said:

You buy cancellation insurance.?

Might work....I'm sure the pax would like another added fee but I guess the insurance could be based on the price of the ticket(s)

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I suspect you'd find that folks who regularly book refundable fares do so because they're business people whose plans change. They pay a fairly hefty premium for that privilege every time they go ahead with their travel plans.

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1 hour ago, Jaydee said:

You buy cancellation insurance.?

When you pay the higher price of a refundable ticket, you have bought "cancellation insurance".

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If flights are booked full, what happens with passengers who misconnect due to back wx or mechanicals, these contribute a lot to over bookings .....

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In those cases, they can't be assigned a seat unless it's open. They'll be put on the standby list when all seats for the next flight are sold.

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I appreciate and understand an airline’s requirement to maximize revenue on every flight, and thus their proclivity to oversell their flights. After all, passengers’ plans change and the airlines are right to protect themselves against flight departures with empty seats that they believed had been sold. Perhaps non-refundable fares offer some protection in that regard.

On the other hand, a fare-paying passenger has a reasonable expectation, having purchased a ticket on a particular flight, that they will travel on that flight.  For the passenger, it’s not just the flight but also what awaits them at the end of that flight: maybe a wedding, a funeral, an important business meeting, or the beginning of an expensive vacation … or whatever.

I believe that airlines have to develop a greater appreciation and plan for mitigation of the impact of overbooking as it applies to its passengers and not just to its bottom line. For most people, a few hundred dollars and a seat on a later flight is not a satisfactory resolution.

I don’t have an easy answer for over-booking but I believe that it is simply not right that a person who has purchased a ticket on a flight, often months in advance, is told when they show up at check-in, or at the gate, that their flight is oversold and that they might not, or worse, will not get on.

The airline knows how many seats are on each of its aircraft - of course a last minute aircraft substitution is a fly in the ointment of any plan – and they know when the last seat – regardless of the fare – has been sold. To my way of thinking, those passengers “own” those seats. If the airline wants to oversell past that point,  … then fine, but it should be with the appreciation that it is those passengers who have purchased their ticket after the flight has been sold out who will suffer the impact of the flight being oversold; and not someone who bought the seat when the seat was actually available. If the airline wants to advise, or should advise people who are purchasing a ticket on the basis of a flight already being sold out, is another matter.

In my view, someone who books 24 hours before departure using one of those “refundable fares” for which they have paid a “hefty premium for that privilege” should not bump a passenger who made their plans and booked their flight possibly months previously.

Carrying on business in that manner is simply not right and the sooner airlines get their heads around that fact, the less grief it will be for both passengers and front line employees alike.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

Might work....I'm sure the pax would like another added fee but I guess the insurance could be based on the price of the ticket(s)

Most airline cancellation polices that provide a refund that is not really a refund. when you take into account the cancellation fee than add in the rebooking service charge, unless you are on a long haul (expensive) booking vs a short haul domestic booking, you might as well just walk away from your booking.

 

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4 hours ago, deicer said:

What if they make airline tickets like theatre tickets? You only sell the inventory you have, and if the patron doesn't show up for the performance, tough, no refunds, no rebooking?

:ph34r:

That is Westjet's business model.  No refunds for no shows cancellations.  No money back, credit only.

AC sells non-refundable tickets as well but also sells higher priced refundable tickets.  A business route will likely have a higher percentage of refundable tickets than a leisure route and will have a corresponding higher oversell rate because of this.

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