Guest Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 In all fairness Dagger, his pov is based on the excellent Israeli Screening, based on his comments re other screening he is not exactly impressed with the level of screening at the certain airports.. Quote Schiff said electronic devices like laptops and iPads have long been subject to scrutiny at airports around the world. But Schiff said, "there are airports in the world where the level of screening and expertise of the screeners is not that high, and subsequently there is a level of risk here". As an example, he said the level of security at Istanbul's Ataturk airport was lower than that at airports in western Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 No, his POV begins with the idea of focussing on these devices in the passenger cabin and the safety gained - or lack thereof - from banishing them to the cargo/baggage hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, dagger said: No, his POV begins with the idea of focussing on these devices in the passenger cabin and the safety gained - or lack thereof - from banishing them to the cargo/baggage hold. I do agree with that but he is also pointing out that screening of items taken onboard is not always done competently. I think the ban on carry on is not going to achieve anything except to burden the airlines with many claims for lost and damaged items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Flight Global has just published a list of airlines etc. that will be impacted by the UK ban. UK electronics ban to cover 75 scheduled services 22 March, 2017 SOURCE: Flightglobal Pro BY: Graham Dunn London April schedules data from FlightGlobal shows that 75 airline services will be covered by new UK restrictions on the size of electronic devices that can be taken as hand luggage, around two-thirds of them on Turkish routes. The UK on 21 March adopted new security measures under which phones, laptops and tablets with dimensions exceeding 16cm by 9.3cm by 1.5cm will not be allowed in the cabin on flights to the country from Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia and Turkey. Similar restrictions has been imposed by US authorities on 20 March, covering 10 airports. Five of these airports – Istanbul Ataturk, Cairo, Amman, Jeddah and Riyadh – are in countries to which the UK restrictions apply, and there are no direct services to the USA from other points in those countries. The UK has not applied its measures to Kuwait, Morocco, Qatar and the UAE – the other countries with airports covered by the US restrictions. FlightGlobal schedules data for April shows more than 1,400 scheduled flights from these six countries into the UK. These account for almost 300,000 seats across the month, an average of around 10,000 seats a day. There are spread across 75 scheduled airline services. Turkey to the UK is the biggest of the markets covered by the UK's new restrictions. There are 49 services operated by nine airlines scheduled for April, spread across 34 routes. Scheduled Turkish capacity is slightly higher in this year's peak summer months than in April. Turkish Airlines has the most capacity into the UK from Turkey. It has more than 80,000 seats scheduled into the UK market during April, across six different routes. The largest of these is Istanbul Ataturk-London Heathrow. While the routes covered by the US restrictions are only operated by overseas carriers, the UK restrictions apply to several home operators. British Airways serves five of the countries covered – its flights on the routes in question accounting for around 40,000 seats in April. Tunisia is the only one of the six countries that BA does not serve. In imposing the restrictions, the UK said it faced a "constantly evolving threat" from terrorism and that the government "must respond accordingly" to ensure the protection of the public. But it stresses that it is "not currently advising against flying to and from those countries" affected by the measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Still nothing from Canada. And the aviation community is trying hard - without success - to find out why the UAE and Qatar are in the US ban but not the UK ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Parents are outraged! Laptop ban on flights: What about the parents?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39341302 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 No tablets, or laptops; can you imagine the horror of it all; parents will actually be required to do some parenting for a few hours instead of turning their kids over to the electronic nanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 1 hour ago, conehead said: Parents are outraged! Laptop ban on flights: What about the parents?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39341302 I understand that parents will be offered onboard purchases of several types of restraints or if for them ..... ear plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 There's no doubt, the Israelis lead the world when it comes to Airline security. It's interesting I think to note the variation in and complexity of the protective operations employed aboard & 'wherever' El Al's aircraft operate. Arguably, the National carrier is the highest value target available to the bad guys. Generally speaking, the Israeli's have but one enemy, they know it well and have incorporated the sophisticated airport defences necessary to countering the threat. Instead of continuing to follow the 'after the fact' approach to security, wouldn't it be wiser if the West respected the Jewish wisdom in this regard and employed similar security strategies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 8 minutes ago, DEFCON said: There's no doubt, the Israelis lead the world when it comes to Airline security. It's interesting I think to note the variation in and complexity of the protective operations employed aboard & 'wherever' El Al's aircraft operate. Arguably, the National carrier is the highest value target available to the bad guys. Generally speaking, the Israeli's have but one enemy, they know it well and have incorporated the sophisticated airport defences necessary to countering the threat. Instead of continuing to follow the 'after the fact' approach to security, wouldn't it be wiser if the West respected the Jewish wisdom in this regard and employed similar security strategies? We never could a afford them. The actual $$$$ cost would be horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Okay, but ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I have spent quite a bit of time with ELAL and Israeli security. Not everyone sees them as the perfect solution. After one particularly molar grinding episode the consensus was that Israeli security is designed to piss you off so bad that the terrorist walks away to blow themself up somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 advice from Royal Jordanian to their customers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Emirates comes up with a "work around" Emirates will let passengers keep laptops until boarding to reduce hassle of US electronics ban The plan will let passengers use electronics as they wait to board and on flights before their final flight to US Credit: Jeremy Bales/Bloomberg News Raf Sanchez, Middle East correspondent 23 March 2017 • 5:25pm Emirates Airline is hoping to minimise the impact of the US electronics ban by allowing customers to hand over their laptops and tablets as they board the plane, rather than putting them in checked luggage when they first reach the airport. The Gulf airline said their plan would allow travelers to use their electronics inside the airport while they wait to board and mean they could use them on all legs of the trip leading up to their final flight to the US. For example, passengers flying from Asia to Dubai and then on to the US could keep their gadgets with them for the first leg of the journey and only hand them over as they boarded the plane for America. The decision, which was announced by Emirates’ British president Tim Clark, will likely be a relief for business travelers who usually work during the long flight to the US. "We are working on a solution that will enable our passengers to utilise their electronic devices up to the last possible moment – whereby they hand their laptops or tablets into our care just before boarding the US bound flight," Mr Clark told the National. "These will then be stowed in the cargo hold and returned to the passengers when the flight lands in the US." Mr Clark questioned why Dubai was included in the American ban, given the sophisticated security systems in place at the airport, which is the world’s busiest hub for international travel. "I do find that a little bit surprising to be quite honest," he said. "When I travel around even the United States or Europe or Asia, I don't see this level of scrutiny that goes on in Dubai." He joked that business travelers should look on the bright side of the ban. "For once I don't have to bang out all the emails," he said. "I've got a perfect excuse to say to the boss, 'I couldn't do any work because of the ban.'" The US ban will come into force on Saturday morning and is scheduled to last indefinitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innuendo Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I'm curious to see how the mechanics of collecting and boarding so many devices will work as I guess it includes cameras which are a bit more clunky to store than laptops and tablets. Is it reasonable to assume that the collected electronics will go into the cargo compartment in some sort of container just prior to departure or in some sort of secure containment in the cabin? From a hazmat point of view that will be quite a concentration of batteries if anything should go wrong.. Hmm, just reread the article, says Laptops and tablets collected on boarding, guess cameras etc. go in checked baggage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innuendo Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Found this in USA Today quoting Emirates. Emirates' new handling service will be offered for free to customers traveling to the U.S. from Dubai, allowing them to use their laptaps and tablets until just before boarding. TODAY IN THE SKY: What fliers need to know about the airline laptop ban | Emirates: 'Who needs tablets and laptops anyway?' Prior to boarding, customers will be required to "declare and hand over their laptops, tablets, and other banned electronic devices to security staff" as they go through gate-side screening in Dubai. Emirates says "the devices will be carefully packed into boxes, loaded into the aircraft hold, and returned to the customer at their U.S. destination." "Our aim is to ensure compliance with the new rules, while minimizing disruption to passenger flow and impact on customer experience," Emirates president Tim Clark says in a statement. "Our new complimentary service enables passengers, particularly those flying for business, to have the flexibility to use their devices until the last possible moment." At least that reduces the risk of losing your device through checked bag pilfering and I suppose puts Emirates at some responsibility for the security of your device. Still not sure about a container of used laptops in a cargo compartment though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Yup, just toss 'em all in a bin. I can see it now... this is gonna work great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Electronics Ban: Ultimately Everyone Will Lose Mar 24, 2017Jens Flottau | Aviation Week & Space Technology The Trump administration has made its first major aviation policy decision, banning large electronic devices from cabins on aircraft departing 10 airports in the Middle East and North Africa. The UK quickly followed with a similar but more limited ban that covered fewer airports. While the professed intent of the electronics ban is to improve passenger security, it was poorly thought through and clumsily rolled out. It could have a major negative impact commercially on the affected airlines and, most importantly, it could actually jeopardize passenger safety. Let’s start with the questionable logic that banning laptops from some aircraft cabins makes flying more secure. Even if the U.S. Homeland Security Department’s so-called security enhancements prevent a terrorist from bringing explosives hidden in a laptop onboard a nonstop flight to the U.S. from one of the 10 listed airports, this does absolutely nothing to prevent an attack. That terrorist could simply take a connecting service from, say, Dubai or Cairo via Frankfurt or Milan to the U.S. and, assuming the explosives somehow evade security, then blow up the second flight over the Atlantic. In this case, it could even be an aircraft operated by a U.S. airline, as many American airlines serve all of the European gateways, which are not covered by the ban. The alleged risk is simply moved from a nonstop to a connecting flight. It is not contained. If U.S. security officials are truly concerned about an imminent threat from the airports in question, they should tighten checks at those airports for all flights. Which gets us to the next point, airport security. In issuing the electronics ban, U.S. authorities imply that security is insufficient at the 10 named airports. The list includes Dubai, Kuwait, Doha and Abu Dhabi, where U.S. customs operates a pre-clearance facility. And anyone who has ever traveled through Dubai’s airport has witnessed how much investment went into state-of-the-art security equipment and staffing to ensure that international standards are maintained. What was the rationale for selecting these airports? The U.S. government isn’t saying. SEE ALSO Electronics Ban Highlights Safety Versus Security Trade-offs Then there is the distinction between security and safety. Every single one of these nonstop flights to the U.S. will now fly with hundreds of electronic devices powered by lithium-ion batteries in the cargo hold, tightly packed in suitcases or bags. The airline industry is scared of these batteries and rightly so: There have been numerous incidents involving lithium-ion battery thermal runaways and fires. The cargo hold, which no one can access during flight, provides ideal conditions for those fires to get out of control. By contrast, passengers and flight attendants can swiftly react to an ignition in the cabin. So even if the restrictions on electronics were issued in good faith, they could have the unintended consequence of making passengers and crew less safe. The e-ban, if it continues, will also have huge commercial implications. As many have noted, business travelers cannot afford not to work on a flight of 12 hr. or more. Many of them will therefore no longer fly Qatar Airways, Emirates Airline and Etihad Airways to the U.S. Flights via other points may be more inconvenient and more expensive, but at least travelers will not miss an entire day’s work in transit. Even though the “big three” Gulf carriers have been quiet about the electronic device ban, they are being hit very hard by it. The U.S. is not their biggest traffic area—Europe and Asia are more important—but it will be painful for them. European network carriers are likely be the main beneficiaries of the directive; U.S. airlines stand to gain far less. The entire commercial aviation industry will suffer in the long-term, however. Because what is next? If the two-month-old Trump administration is making such obviously flawed moves in the vital areas of safety and security, why should anyone believe its other aviation policies will be carefully considered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Some travelers will benefit from the ban Free WiFi and meditation as airlines grapple with laptop ban Turkish and Gulf airlines are touting free WiFi and better in-flight connectivity for smart phones as they scramble to mitigate the impact of a ban on laptops in plane cabins bound for the United States. The restrictions could deal a blow to fast-growing Gulf airlines, which depend on business-class flyers stopping over in Dubai or Doha for far-flung destinations, and to Turkish Airlines with its high volume of transit passengers. The United Arab Emirates, one of the world's top aviation hubs, has said it was surprised by the ban because UAE security was already tight. Washington announced the new measure on Tuesday, prohibiting electronic devices larger than smart phones in cabins on flights from 10 airports in countries including the UAE, Qatar and Turkey. That will hit Gulf carriers Emirates, Etihad and Qatar Airways but not US airlines, none of which fly to those airports. In the UAE's first official response to the ban, Sultan bin Saeed al-Mansouri, Minister of Economy and chairman of the General Civil Aviation Authority, said it was surprising because the UAE aviation sector and airports had proven themselves safe. "The UAE is the number one ranked country worldwide by the International Civil Aviation Organisation regarding the UAE's compliance with international security and safety standards," he said. He also noted differences between the US ban and a similar step by Britain. The British restrictions do not include the UAE or Qatar, but will affect other carriers including Turkish Airlines. The carriers are bracing themselves for the new measures, which are set to come into effect on Saturday during the traditionally busy spring break travel period. A Turkish Airlines official said it was working on rolling out a system to allow passengers to use 3G data roaming on mobile phones to connect to the Internet in-flight, and planned to make WiFi freely available on some aircraft from next month. "We've sped up infrastructure work after the latest developments ... If the work is complete, we're planning on switching to free WiFi services in our Boeing 777 and Airbus 330 aircraft in April," the official said. Emirates said on Thursday it was introducing a "laptop and tablet handling service" for US-bound flights which would allow passengers to use their devices until just before they board. The devices would be "carefully packed into boxes" and returned on arrival in the United States, it said. Emirates passengers can access limited free WiFi or pay $1 for 500MB. Fellow Gulf carrier Etihad encouraged passengers to pack their electronics in check-in luggage but said it would also allow devices to be handed over at boarding, a spokesman said. Turkish said it had introduced a similar measure. Qatar Airways did not respond to questions on how it planned to mitigate the impact of the new security measures, but in a Facebook posting this week it said its in-flight entertainment was "the only entertainment you'll need on board". Royal Jordanian also took a tongue-in-cheek approach, listing on Twitter "12 things to do on a 12-hour flight with no laptop or tablet", including reading, meditating, saying hello to your neighbour, or "reclaiming territory on your armrest". Emirates used Hollywood actor Jennifer Aniston to ease the blow of the ban. The restrictions have prompted speculation that the move, enacted by US President Donald Trump's administration, is to protect US airlines by stifling the growth of the Gulf carriers and Turkish Airlines. The Gulf airlines have been battling a lobbying campaign in Washington by US carriers that accuse them of receiving unfair subsidies, charges that the Gulf carriers deny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Note the expansion to include inbound baggage checking: This will certainly slow down the arrival baggage retrieval and may also cause the connecting baggage to miss flights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo32a Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Oh no, the airlines will have to provide in flight entertainment systems, how draconian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 And some airlines are taking the opportunity to highlight why they are better: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 if there is at least a convenient protectionist side benefit of the US ban, it's impacting South Asia traffic to the US via Dubai, Doha or Abu Dhabi. Anyway, still nothing from Canada (or Germany or France or Netherlands or....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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