conehead Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/tsb-investigation-air-canada-seatbelts-1.3991162 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Stupidity? Arrogance? Ignorance? Take your pick. I spend a lot of time in the back of aircraft and when I see someone with their seatbelt off I'll sometimes ask, "Did you hear the announcement?" Yes. "So why didn't you put your seatbelt on?" Because it's never as bad as they say. "But what if it is as bad as they say this time?" If it is, then I'll put it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Your first three guesses sum it up with heavy emphasis on 'stupid'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 I'll guess ignorance... I think most people have no idea how often a commercial airliner encounters turbulence that will lift your bum out of that seat, and turn all that un-secured carry-on stuff into projectiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Well, yes, ignorance of what could happen but arrogance for believing that their assessment of the situation and appropriate action is more correct than the authority who's telling them to put their seatbelt on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boney Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 You know, it's really not you I'm thinking about anymore, since you know it all, but I'm concerned about our remaining guests that will be hurt when you become a projectile. I hope your fellow passengers are listening to this so that they can sue you for being such an a$$. That is what I'll like to say. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boney Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 If there ever a need for a "black list", this is one example. Next time these people want to fly, they should be refused as they do not wish to follow safety instructions. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I don't know if it's a cultural thing, but my experience on flights to/from China is that they just don't listen to you. You can repeat things as many times as you want but they just ignore you. Seatbelts are just one of the things. We recently had to tell a guy 6 times that he couldn't self upgrade himself to Premium Y. He'd get up, go back to his seat and next time you turned around he was back in PY. When we threatened to have the police meet the flight he cut it out, but otherwise he just didn't give a damn what we said. People steal wine and beer from bar carts when you turn around. Leave anything edible unattended and it disappears. Tell them to stow their bags under the seat in front of them and 5 seconds later it's back on their laps. It's a gong show. It's gotten to the point where I just don't worry about seatbelts any more. I give them the standard warning, walk through to check and instruct them once, then I just strap myself in and hope for the best. No point stressing about it because as soon as you walk away they undo them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 If a passenger was injured by another passenger who failed to use his seatbelt after a warning, would he be able to seek financial restitution in court from doofus who wouldn't buckle up? That would be interesting, and the outcome might cause people to smarten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, conehead said: If a passenger was injured by another passenger who failed to use his seatbelt after a warning, would he be able to seek financial restitution in court from doofus who wouldn't buckle up? That would be interesting, and the outcome might cause people to smarten up. Hah! You might think so but then you are a rational person. If the threat of personal pain and suffering isn't enough to convince someone to fasten the seat belt I doubt that the threat of a lawsuit will do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 The individual will attempt to sue the passenger beside him. That unbuckled passenger will attempt to sue the airline for not having the crew ensure everyone was buckled in.......and the original individual who wanted to sue the passenger beside him will probably jump on the bandwagon with the unbuckled passenger.....after all......who has the most money...... if there has to be a settlement ???.................so it goes ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 2 hours ago, moeman said: I don't know if it's a cultural thing I eventually quit going to China to work/teach for IATA. There was no-one that you could trust. The final problem was that they charged me income tax on the amount that they reimbursed me for an airplane ticket that I said I would buy to get me there. If we left the room the instructors knew to password lock their laptops or someone would come along and download your hard drive for their own use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Father and son killed in head-on collision with each other in Alabama: ‘You really just cannot imagine it’ Travis M. Andrews, Washington Post | February 21, 2017 10:20 AM ETMore from Washington Post Jeffrey Brasher and his son Austin were described as “very close.” They loved playing golf together, working on each other’s swings. Jeffery’s sister Pamela Brasher Dennis told AL.com of her brother, “He loved being a husband and father… the kind of guy who, if you needed something, you’d go to him because he would help. He wanted to make you smile, and his kids were his number one priority.” Jeffrey and Austin may have been close, but on Saturday morning they were on very different journeys. Jeffrey, 50, pulled himself out of bed to get a head-start on the day long before the sun rose. As a bread distributor for 20 years — “Everybody knew him as the bread man,” Dennis said — early mornings were expected. So he climbed into his 2006 Ford pickup and set out in the pre-dawn of Bankston, Alabama, about 110 kilometres west of Birmingham. He was en route to Flower’s Bakery in rural Winfield to pick up the day’s fresh delivery. After driving for about a half-hour, Jeffery pulled onto County Highway 49 — a curving two-lane road lined by walls of pine trees. The state’s rolling hills were shrouded in darkness.He wasn’t wearing a seat-belt. Meanwhile, his 22-year-old son Austin was heading home after a long night partying with friends, his cousin Monica Marie Aker told People, calling him “the life of the party.” My worst fear was that Austin would make it through and then kill himself because he wouldn’t have been able to deal with killing his father “In high school, he was quiet, but everyone knew who he was,” Aker said. “He was the little guy driving the big truck. He was very well-liked and could really get along with anybody.” Sitting in the cab of his 2004 Chevy pickup, the little guy in a big truck had reached the stretch of County Highway 49 near Winfield himself. The winding road, which at that hour is lit only by headlamps and moonlight, was almost invisible. Like his father, Austin wasn’t wearing a seat belt. At 4:10, the two collided head-on, AL.com reported. Jeffery was pronounced dead on the scene, while Austin was rushed to UAB Hospital in Birmingham, where he clung to life until 9:18 a.m. Police said alcohol might have been involved but did not elaborate. “You really just cannot imagine it,” Dennis told People. “There are no words that can be said. Everybody’s life changed on Saturday morning. No one’s life will be the same after this.” Aker said she can’t imagine how Austin would have dealt with the guilt if he had lived. “My worst fear was that Austin would make it through and then kill himself because he wouldn’t have been able to deal with killing his father,” she told People. “It would have destroyed him.” Dennis said she hopes others take this a reminder that no day is guaranteed. “We need to hold on tight to our faith,” Dennis said. “We love Austin and Jeff and our family will never be the same. We want everyone to hug and spend time with their families. Love your family every day. Don’t let anything go unsaid. You never know what tomorrow will bring.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critter Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 It's not just an aviation problem... People still text and drive despite the risk. They don't wear seat belts in their own vehicles. They snowmobile over thin ice. I regularly see them not wear seat belts in the back of the plane. Why someone would make a conscious choice to engage in risky behaviour (and in some cases, place others at risk) really baffles me. And worse, I can't see a way to convince them otherwise. Facts and statistics don't work...so what else is left? But you can bet that when they get hurt, they will convince themselves that someone else is to blame and in some cases the legal system will agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, Critter said: It's not just an aviation problem... People still text and drive despite the risk. They don't wear seat belts in their own vehicles. They snowmobile over thin ice. I regularly see them not wear seat belts in the back of the plane. Why someone would make a conscious choice to engage in risky behaviour (and in some cases, place others at risk) really baffles me. And worse, I can't see a way to convince them otherwise. Facts and statistics don't work...so what else is left? But you can bet that when they get hurt, they will convince themselves that someone else is to blame and in some cases the legal system will agree. In today's news, despite the risk indeed. Quote Pedestrian killed by Train was wearing earphones, distracted by cellphone Warning signals in the area were working properly, including an audible signal and flashing lights. Two signs warn pedestrians to look both ways before crossing the tracks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfhunter Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Critter said: It's not just an aviation problem... So true. There is an element of arrogance and self entitlement in this but the main problem, in my view, is a lack of experience. Most people in this part of the world live sheltered lives. They simply are not exposed, and most have never been exposed, to life threatening situations as a matter of routine. I’m sure you can point to exceptions, but mostly, you seldom see this behaviour in seasoned soldiers, police officers, fire fighters and the like. It’s all about perspective. We live in a world where opinion is held in as much esteem as knowledge and experience and you see this everywhere. It seems to me that spending a year (or so) in places like Afghanistan, Northern Mali or South Sudan would serve to give these folks at bit of perspective. One thorn of experience is worth an entire forest of warnings. People who make a career out of managing risk always seem less inclined to to do stupid things with the malice of forethought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 Yes, a buddy of mine always stresses "situational awareness" will go a long way in keeping yourself safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 When I started riding a motorcycle several years ago I noticed a LOT more of what was going on around me on the road. Now I am also a far more attentive driver. Situational awareness is crucial whether you are walking, driving or flying. Failing to be aware of what is going on around you can be, as we saw above, fatal. It amazes me how many people walk around like zombies without a single clue of what is happening around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I consider this as one of the best 1'28" safety adds I have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Another "Expert" has waded into the discussion. Leaving the seatbelt sign on too long is dangerous: air safety expert Yesterday, March 26, 2017, 12:21:45 PM | Rob Drinkwater, The Canadian Press An airline safety expert says plane crews may be unwittingly compromising flight safety by leaving seatbelt signs on too long. Greg Marshall suggests passengers may not see the need to remain buckled up if the signs remain illuminated during a smooth ride or if no one has explained to fliers what’s going on. “The seatbelt sign can tend to stay on for long periods of time. There are occasions when I believe the crews simply forget to turn the sign off,” said Marshall of Flight Safety Foundation, an aviation safety advocacy group headquartered in Alexandria, Va. “The intent of putting the seatbelt sign on degrades because passengers get up and walk around the cabin anyway.” Canada’s Transportation Safety Board noted in a recent report on 21 turbulence-related injuries on an Air Canada flight from Shanghai to Toronto in December 2015 that passenger compliance with the seatbelt signs may have been affected by the amount of time seatbelt lights had been on. It said 35 minutes elapsed from the time turbulence preparations started in the cabin to when severe bumpiness began. The cabin lights were low and flight attendants had been moving about, suggesting to passengers that the turbulence was not imminent, the report said. Canadian aviation regulations require passengers to buckle up during taxis, takeoffs and landings. They must also secure themselves if the seatbelt sign is on or when crew members tell them to do so. Passengers are also advised, however, to keep their seatbelts fastened whenever they’re seated to avoid possible injuries from turbulence. The industry is aware of the potential for overuse of seatbelt signs. Transport Canada stated in a 2014 circular that the policies of some airlines to keep passengers in their seats at all times can be counter-productive. It said seat-belt signs should only be lit during critical phases of flight, in cases of turbulence or when the pilot deems it necessary for safety reasons. “By doing so, passengers and crew members are more likely to understand and realize the importance of the safety belt sign and comply with the instructions when it is illuminated,” the circular stated. The International Air Transport Association advises that seatbelt signs should be used only when necessary “to avoid undermining the importance of the illuminated signs during turbulence or emergency situation.” The TSB report on the Air Canada flight noted that Transport Canada recommends seatbelt announcements be customized with the anticipated severity and duration of turbulence. “Passengers are more likely to pay attention to and comply with cabin safety information if they perceive it as relevant.” Marshall said policies on seatbelt signs tend to vary greatly from airline to airline. Some carriers leave signs on and don’t care much if passengers get up. Others are strict and clashes can occur between flight attendants and fliers used to more relaxed rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I have NEVER sat in any seat in ANY aircraft without my seat belt done up.......I call it common sense since you are hurtling through the atmosphere at close to 500 mph and one never knows when you will encounter one of those dreaded "air-pockets". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsplat Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I read that article citing the FSF fellow. Disappointing. to say the least. One would expect an organization like that to comment on the difficulty pinpointing turbulence, or the number of times passengers try to make a claim for injuries wihen they encountered unexpected bumps BEFORE the belts went on. But nope. Passengers get compliance fatigue, so let's leave the belts off until we are really, REALLY sure there is going to be turbulence. Silly me. I always wondered what the Turbulence Ahead in XXX NM meter did.... Off my soap box. Vs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon The Loon Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 On 2/21/2017 at 9:35 AM, seeker said: If it is, then I'll put it on. Kinda difficult when your head is stuck in a ceiling panel. Here's one I witnessed personally about 20 years ago. I was in an aisle seat mid cabin. Main wheels were on and the nose wheel touched down when a mother across the aisle and 1 seat ahead, stood up and started to take her son to the lav. It was really an involuntary response I let out "Lady, SIT DOWN!" She actually complied - for about 5 seconds, glaring at me, saying that Junior had to go to the toilet. We must have still been doing 80 knots when she got up again and dragged her son up the aisle to the astonishment of the cabin crew. There is SOO much Stupid Is As Stupid Does in the cabin. I'll bet our cabincrew AEF members can tell us some good ones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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