Seeker Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, Homerun said: I disagree. Since AC went to off the rack, the majority of pilots have very poor fitting uniforms and that makes them look sloppy. Combine the poor fit with the double breasted cut and big gold buttons and it makes the pilot look unprofessional simply because the outfit is so ridiculous. Sure, there's a few guys who let the standards slide but even with this AC pilots on average look better (more professional) than crews from other airlines. You may think the double-breasted suit looks ridiculous but I think seeing an airline pilot wearing a leather jacket as if he's getting ready to go bomb Europe looks worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 47 minutes ago, seeker said: Sure, there's a few guys who let the standards slide but even with this AC pilots on average look better (more professional) than crews from other airlines. You may think the double-breasted suit looks ridiculous but I think seeing an airline pilot wearing a leather jacket as if he's getting ready to go bomb Europe looks worse. Agree there, and all in all I am sure a lot of thought went into Christopher's new uniform design "without any influence from the old boys"... So a few think this look is better than .................... This look below (1962) No .....I wasn't in AC in 1962...I was learning to fly...but I prefer the single breasted To each his own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 hour ago, seeker said: Sure, there's a few guys who let the standards slide but even with this AC pilots on average look better (more professional) than crews from other airlines. You may think the double-breasted suit looks ridiculous but I think seeing an airline pilot wearing a leather jacket as if he's getting ready to go bomb Europe looks worse. The double breasted suit and the bomber jacket are both horrible and out dated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Newman said: The double breasted suit and the bomber jacket are both horrible and out dated ...and the single-breasted suit with small lapels and 3 buttons is outdated or is it the single-breasted suit with large lapels and 2 buttons? Sorry, can't keep up with the fashion trends. Look, doesn't matter what you pick, someone will think it's out of date or else it's too trendy. Personally, if it was up to me, I'd take Jerry's advice: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 On 2/9/2017 at 0:10 PM, Newman said: For a second, I thought these were the old uniforms from the 90's. Double breasted!? How many pleats do the pants come with? Re: the livery, it looks like they took the best of all the various Delta livery iterations, changed the colour to black and added the Air Canada logos. Appears the Double Breasted Jacket is back in fashion: https://www.thetrendspotter.net/2015/02/bring-back-double-breasted-suit-fall.html The Double-Breasted Suit The fashion world has always been divided over the double-breasted suit. We cannot shake the image of a large, oversized jacket, complete with thick pinstripes being worn by a man talking on a ridiculously large cell phone. While, on the other hand, it is on high rotation on an international fashion circuit. This season is no different. The contentious fashion statement has featured heavily at Pitti Uomo. Designers such as Prada, Vivienne Westwood and Calvin Klein have all made an impact as each reinvented the suit with new fabrics either making them super fitted as seen on the Prada runway or straight cut as Boglioli has featured them. The double-breasted suit and blazer is a unique statement that has not yet made it a local trend. This means that simply wearing it in a classic cut and fabric will be statement enough. For the upcoming fall season try to find a blazer in a dark colour – grey, black or navy blue will always stand out. Try also experimenting with fabrics. A heavy twill or velvet, featured on the Boglioli runway, will be sure to make an impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Politics is ruining the world, and arguing about suits Trumps it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 What do you folks think of the Maintenance uniforms with epaulettes? (did I spell that right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 It's for the ramp rats, so you can tell who the Chief Pile-it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, conehead said: What do you folks think of the Maintenance uniforms with epaulettes? (did I spell that right?) I think that's a great idea. Well, maybe not epaulettes since that implies a rank of some sort but I do like the idea of differentiating the uniform from the ramp guys and groomers - I rarely need to talk to the groomers (as essential as they are to the operation) but often need to talk to MTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 AME's wearing epaulettes is and has been very common in Europe and Asia for sometime. For example, BA and Cathay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 1 hour ago, blues deville said: AME's wearing epaulettes is and has been very common in Europe and Asia for sometime. For example, BA and Cathay. Most of us spent more time acquiring our skills than pilots. We didn't get to drone along in the hangar for 12 hours and then adjust a table tray you know! We were actually expected to work the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 18 minutes ago, Maverick said: Most of us spent more time acquiring our skills than pilots. We didn't get to drone along in the hangar for 12 hours and then adjust a table tray you know! We were actually expected to work the whole time. Pilots never stop acquiring their personal skills....(it's a bad day if you do a flight and don't learn something) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 A number commentators have remarked on the "raccoon mask" on the windshield of the newly painted aircraft, makes it a distinctive look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 5 hours ago, Kip Powick said: Pilots never stop acquiring their personal skills....(it's a bad day if you do a flight and don't learn something) I venture to say that mechanics similarly never stop enhancing their skills adapting as necessary to technological and mechanical innovation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 8 hours ago, Maverick said: Most of us spent more time acquiring our skills than pilots. We didn't get to drone along in the hangar for 12 hours and then adjust a table tray you know! We were actually expected to work the whole time. Not sure why you're quoting me on this semi-related topic as my post was only a comment supporting the uniform policy of engineers at some legacy carriers. My father has now collected a pension from AC longer than his working life in airline maintenance and I learned at young age there was not much that he couldn't do or fix. But he also respects my efforts of over 40 years and 25,000 hours of safe flying. He is fully aware of my sim checks, medicals, route checks, recurrent ground school, CRM and of course airplane systems that monitor every single event on a flight. I don't think you'll find a job which is more continually monitored until the day you retire than that of an airline pilot. I've flown that jet with the table tray but I've also flown planes with a dead moose dripping blood on the floor behind my seat.....and then cleaned up the mess before the next flight. And repeat. I've worked with a lot of great AME's over the years and certainly realize the important contribution they make towards safety at an airline. If AC wants to recognize this with a uniform epaulettes I think it's great. They will be joining a list of many airlines who follow this same practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, blues deville said: I've worked with a lot of great AME's over the years and certainly realize the important contribution they make towards safety at an airline. If AC wants to recognize this with a uniform epullette I think it's great. They will be joining a list of many airlines who follow this same practice. I don't have a problem with recognizing their contribution toward the operation and safety. In fact, I think AMEs are severely under appreciated - I place license holders at the top of the heap in the hierarchy; pilots, AMEs, dispatchers and Air Traffic Controllers (no order implied in this list). I'm not against the idea of epaulettes for AMEs but I do find the message they convey somewhat confusing. For me, having epaulettes with a couple of bars suggests "rank" - if you see someone with 2 bars does that mean he's the head guy or should I be looking for the 3 bar guy? Is someone with 1 bar a trainee, someone with 4 bars a manager, or does every AME get 2 bars? It's not a big deal, we'll figure it out. Just saying at first exposure the meaning of the bars is not intuitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Easy guys...it won't be long until someone realizes that the epaulets could get snagged on something and the AME's will probably be asked to remove them. Personally I would rather see a crest on the jacket chest/arm with, possibly a wrench smacking a 4 ringer on the head, to denote an AME. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again just my take on a flight operation... You need the AMEs to make sure the tube is flyable You need the pilots to fly the tube But, again in my opinion, really important crew members are the FA's...their work/personality can make or break a flight as far as the pax are concerned.....they put forth a more important image of the company than any Roger Ramjet or Wrench Jockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Kip Powick said: But, again in my opinion, really important crew members are the FA's...their work/personality can make or break a flight as far as the pax are concerned.....they put forth a more important image of the company than any Roger Ramjet or Wrench Jockey. When I go to a restaurant all of my interactions will be with the server but I never forget it's the chef who's ultimately responsible for making sure I don't get salmonella poisoning and die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlupin Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Not much info has been circulated about the epaulets. It hasn't been communicated yet but from what I have seen and what I understand, just by looking at the uniform, a flight crew will be able to tell if he is talking to a structures technician, a M license tech or a E license tech. Also, the bars would in effect reflect rank and classification within the group. I am unsure what the end goal is for the classification (ie number of bars) but I suspect it has something to do with changing the image of the technician and creating a certain pride within that employee group. The present classification goes from 1-5 and is mostly related to pay echelon. However, the fifth level, is one that when it was created, the intent was that a technician had to demonstrate a superior level of knowledge in policy, procedures, ethics and professionalism. An evaluation is done every year to maintain that classification. I do not believe the roll out of that fifth echelon met all the objectives but it is there none the less. From what I understood an level 5 technician would have 5 bars. (as seen in the picture posted earlier) What will it mean to flight crew at the end of the day? There will no possibility of mistaking ramp services personnel with maintenance. One will likely be able to distinguish cabin maintenance personnel from aircraft maintenance personnel. As for the amount of bars, it's likely to be more of a status symbol for the AME than an identifier for flight crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, seeker said: When I go to a restaurant all of my interactions will be with the server but I never forget it's the chef who's ultimately responsible for making sure I don't get salmonella poisoning and die. I see your point........but......do you really think the pax wonder if the guy/gal up front are qualified to do the job...they rightly assume the drivers know what they are doing and I would venture to say their thoughts concerning the pilots skills,, by the paying customers, is almost nil..(please..no Hudson references) The same holds true for the AME that rushed in and reset something so it was an on-time departure, a great working relationship with maintenance individuals is a plus for any driver.. I think the passengers biggest concern is what is happening in the back end and here is where the service /attitude of the FAs can make, or break a flight. You....., as a driver can deviate around storms, hunt for that smooth altitudes, and drop it on the runway like a feather...but..if the FA's are snarly, offensive, could care less about the pax........what do you think the customers are going to remember about that flight...... where you were in command, and in your opinion, out witted Mother Nature, and then lucked in with the ultimate "greaser"??? Credit where credit is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Kip, I don't disagree that good or bad cabin staff can make or break the experience. I do, however, stand at the door and say good bye to every one of my passengers and a significant number will pause at the door and say, "thanks for a safe flight," or "thanks for getting us here safely." Maybe the fact that you were a pilot makes it easier to drop the crew's qualifications and skill into "given" category but I'd don't think it's as far out-of-mind for the average passenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 OK...your opinion, my opinion.....fair enough...........going out to shovel the last dump of that %$*##@ white stuff off my driveway.. Have a nice weekend and thanks for keeping it civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Kip Powick said: .......going out to shovel the last dump of that %$*##@ white stuff off my driveway.. I use a snowblower. It's easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 2 hours ago, mrlupin said: Not much info has been circulated about the epaulets. It hasn't been communicated yet but from what I have seen and what I understand, just by looking at the uniform, a flight crew will be able to tell if he is talking to a structures technician, a M license tech or a E license tech. Also, the bars would in effect reflect rank and classification within the group. I am unsure what the end goal is for the classification (ie number of bars) but I suspect it has something to do with changing the image of the technician and creating a certain pride within that employee group. The present classification goes from 1-5 and is mostly related to pay echelon. However, the fifth level, is one that when it was created, the intent was that a technician had to demonstrate a superior level of knowledge in policy, procedures, ethics and professionalism. An evaluation is done every year to maintain that classification. I do not believe the roll out of that fifth echelon met all the objectives but it is there none the less. From what I understood an level 5 technician would have 5 bars. (as seen in the picture posted earlier) What will it mean to flight crew at the end of the day? There will no possibility of mistaking ramp services personnel with maintenance. One will likely be able to distinguish cabin maintenance personnel from aircraft maintenance personnel. As for the amount of bars, it's likely to be more of a status symbol for the AME than an identifier for flight crew. Excellent post, you nailed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 2 hours ago, mrlupin said: Not much info has been circulated about the epaulets. It hasn't been communicated yet but from what I have seen and what I understand, just by looking at the uniform, a flight crew will be able to tell if he is talking to a structures technician, a M license tech or a E license tech. Also, the bars would in effect reflect rank and classification within the group. I am unsure what the end goal is for the classification (ie number of bars) but I suspect it has something to do with changing the image of the technician and creating a certain pride within that employee group. The present classification goes from 1-5 and is mostly related to pay echelon. However, the fifth level, is one that when it was created, the intent was that a technician had to demonstrate a superior level of knowledge in policy, procedures, ethics and professionalism. An evaluation is done every year to maintain that classification. I do not believe the roll out of that fifth echelon met all the objectives but it is there none the less. From what I understood an level 5 technician would have 5 bars. (as seen in the picture posted earlier) What will it mean to flight crew at the end of the day? There will no possibility of mistaking ramp services personnel with maintenance. One will likely be able to distinguish cabin maintenance personnel from aircraft maintenance personnel. As for the amount of bars, it's likely to be more of a status symbol for the AME than an identifier for flight crew. This is all good detail. I'm looking forward to AMEs getting the respect they deserve and this system, once it's learned by the rest of us, should help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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