All of US.... a thought for a Tuesday

[Guest]

[DEFCON]

That is a very nice thought Malcolm, but then we wake up and find ourselves in the real world.

 

[dagger]

14 minutes ago, DEFCON said:

That is a very nice thought Malcolm, but then we wake up and find ourselves in the real world.

 

Your real world must be very sad, or cloistered, which I guess would be pretty sad in itself.

I've met many people from all of the aforementioned groups and whether they became friends or not, they were people who struck me as nice and good citizens. Maybe it's the byproduct of living in multi-cultural cities, where you interact with every type of person from every race, every major religion and many nationalities, but I find most people are good. Everyone has a lot on their plate, and they don't often have time to talk or they have different interests, but most people in Canada are good.

I suggest you look at the image Malcolm posted and try it. Go to Tim Horton's or Starbucks or wherever and smile at some people who aren't just like you - I bet many of them would smile back. At the end of the day, most people just want to get through the day. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, DEFCON said:

That is a very nice thought Malcolm, but then we wake up and find ourselves in the real world.

 

This is my "Real" world.  Years of interaction / friendship with people all around the world made this my world.  I hope the world you believe to be real, never takes over from us, the majority.

[UpperDeck]

I have two questions which are not connected.

1. Why does it now appear to be a "thing" for young(ish) non-Muslim men to wear full bushy Taliban-like beards?

2. Muslims believe that women must comport themselves modestly and wear clothing to conceal their "sexuality". The more conservative, the greater the coverage. I think that's correct. Now assuming that Muslim women share the belief that any overt display of their sexuality is "kafir", how must they feel walking down the street passing "Western" women in various stages of undress? Seriously, everywhere you go these days ( and I am NOT complaining) ,you see young ( sometimes VERY young) women/girls attired so as to leave very little to the imagination. That MUST offend the observant Somali female recently arrived.

Now let's go back to that McDonalds where one is invited to "reach out" to another of a different faith with a smiling welcome. I venture to suggest that the smile will not be returned by the woman whose face is averted in disgust.

Note....I was just in Tahiti and other French Polynesian islands and don't recall seeing any women with head covering. The Polynesian people are VERY friendly. I am now in New Zealand and there are a significant number of Muslim women wearing head coverings in Auckland.

A la Mr. Powick let me add that Air New Zealand was great. On the Dreamliner and had a huge amount of room in Economy. Good service and excellent IFE. However, LAX to PPT on Air Tahiti Nui....a 340....and swore I would never again fly in economy because I was contorted like a pretzel in a small seat with really bad IFE.

[deicer]

Malcolm, I hope this fits in with what you were trying to say...

 

[Seeker]

21 hours ago, Malcolm said:

This is my "Real" world.  Years of interaction / friendship with people all around the world made this my world.  I hope the world you believe to be real, never takes over from us, the majority.

OK, define friendship.  I'm friends with the people on my street but if the guy on the corner sneaks into my yard at night and steals my bike, is he my friend?  How about if someone new moves into your neighborhood and then hangs around the community mailbox harassing your wife because she comes to pick up the mail in a t-shirt and shorts instead of long pants and a head scarf?

The vast majority of non-muslims have no problem at all with muslims living their own life according to their beliefs and and culture right up until the point where they try to impose those beliefs on the rest of us.

I ask only three things from immigrants/refugees; work hard to become a contributing member of society, follow our laws and don't try to impose your values and beliefs on the rest of us.  Not too much to ask in my opinion.

If you want to "hope" for something you should be hoping that the world that Islam believes to be real never takes over from the majority.

[Kip Powick]

 

I ask only three things from immigrants/refugees; work hard to become a contributing member of society, follow our laws and don't try to impose your values and beliefs on the rest of us.

I ask one other thing.......no Provincial l Governmental medical assistance until you have paid TAXES for , 1,2,3,4,5, years. (reader..take your pick)

[boestar]

1 hour ago, seeker said:

OK, define friendship.  I'm friends with the people on my street but if the guy on the corner sneaks into my yard at night and steals my bike, is he my friend?  How about if someone new moves into your neighborhood and then hangs around the community mailbox harassing your wife because she comes to pick up the mail in a t-shirt and shorts instead of long pants and a head scarf?

The vast majority of non-muslims have no problem at all with muslims living their own life according to their beliefs and and culture right up until the point where they try to impose those beliefs on the rest of us.

I ask only three things from immigrants/refugees; work hard to become a contributing member of society, follow our laws and don't try to impose your values and beliefs on the rest of us.  Not too much to ask in my opinion.

If you want to "hope" for something you should be hoping that the world that Islam believes to be real never takes over from the majority.

Well I have the same issue with the WASP neighbor or guy at the end of the street that does any of this.  The colour of his skin or the country from which they hail makes ZERO difference.  There are a LOT of Born and bred Canadians and Americans trying to change the rules to fit their beliefs be it religious or philosophical.  This is NOT just the domain of the Muslim.

Christianity had the monopoly on forcing their will on the people I seem to recall.

There are a few things people should not be. 1) Racist, 2) Hypocritical, 3) A-holes.

Perhaps if people quit treating other people like crap we would be in a much better place.

[Guest]

To the list I can add: when an immigrant is privately sponsored, the sponsor must post a bond so as to prevent the sponsor from walking away from their commitment. The sponsorship period must be for a min of 2 years, not the present inadequate 1 year.

We also must stop tempting immgrants to come to Canada based on their vocations unless their credentials are immediately accepted and they are then allowed to work. eg. Doctors as Doctors etc. 

[Seeker]

1 hour ago, boestar said:

Well I have the same issue with the WASP neighbor or guy at the end of the street that does any of this.  The colour of his skin or the country from which they hail makes ZERO difference.  There are a LOT of Born and bred Canadians and Americans trying to change the rules to fit their beliefs be it religious or philosophical.  This is NOT just the domain of the Muslim.

Christianity had the monopoly on forcing their will on the people I seem to recall.

There are a few things people should not be. 1) Racist, 2) Hypocritical, 3) A-holes.

Perhaps if people quit treating other people like crap we would be in a much better place.

Where are the Christians who say that those who leave the church should be killed?

Where are the non-muslims protesting the way someone dresses?

Where are the Christians demanding prayer rooms at public schools?

[boestar]

Apparently you do not pay attention.  Christians demanding prayer in school is a primary issue in the USA....Again

I see people Judge and condemn the way people dress all the time for example people saying Muslims shouldn't be allowed to wear a Niquab or Hijab (whichever one is the head scarf), Its a bloody scarf that women in the 50's and 60's wore all the time.

Maybe Christians don't say it but Scientology does and some other fringe religions.

There is no monopoly on hypocrisy.  EVERYONE does it.  Recognizing it is half the battle

[Fido]

This is a Niquab

 

 

[boestar]

Perhaps I meant Hijab.  Get them confused all the time.  I meant the Scarf not this.

 

[Seeker]

42 minutes ago, boestar said:

Apparently you do not pay attention.  Christians demanding prayer in school is a primary issue in the USA....Again

I see people Judge and condemn the way people dress all the time for example people saying Muslims shouldn't be allowed to wear a Niquab or Hijab (whichever one is the head scarf), Its a bloody scarf that women in the 50's and 60's wore all the time.

Maybe Christians don't say it but Scientology does and some other fringe religions.

There is no monopoly on hypocrisy.  EVERYONE does it.  Recognizing it is half the battle

Well, this is pointless.  If you're going to cherry-pick: "women wore scarves in the 50s", "some Christian parent in Alabama wanted a prayer" and "Scientology is messed up" to balance what's happening today in Canada I give up.  There is clearly a difference between a scarf worn for fashion and the Niquab/Hajib but if that's the level of argument you're going to bring I can't be bothered.

[Kip Powick]

Rich,

My posting is my opinion but seeing you asked....which service in Canada is in the worst shape.....? During a recent survey Canadian's biggest concern was "Health Care". It is floundering...we have lots of roads, lots of school and lots of police, so please...no red herrings.

The new arrivals are welcome to use the roads, the schools and are entitled to police services but how about putting in some money for something  everyone will eventually need including the kids. The new arrival probably didn't have "free" medical care from whence they came so put something in the "pot" before you and your entire family starts to use what most resident ( resident to me means ...have been here a year or so and paid taxes), Canadians have been paying into and are still paying into for their entire life. 

Yes, welcome all those we choose as immigrants but let them understand that you have to EARN the benefits that those that have been here awhile and who have paid into the system.

 

 

 

[Seeker]

Rich, I also have a few extended family members who have taken more from the system than they ever have, or will, contribute.  I don't like it either.  The best I can do is to show a good example and try to encourage them to step up - that's not much help probably but it's the best I can do.  I don't expect new Canadians to pay first and allow for an "overdraft" if that makes sense.  In any case it's a false economy to set a hard date as to when medical access would become available because people just delay seeking service until that date.  I have heard newhire employees saying, "I'm looking forward to my 6 month anniversary so I can go to the dentist for free", so then the company plan pays 3 times as much for repair work as it would have paid for maintenance work - better to just have benefits start immediately.

My hope and expectation is that new Canadians will become net contributors to society but how, other than trying to make good picks, to make that happen is beyond me.

[Guest]

[DEFCON]

Dagger

You're a weak little man hiding behind a keyboard.

If you want to ignore reality and pretend, keep the rose coloured glasses on.

If I had to guess, you're probably one of those pretend hyphenated Canadians that carries multiple passports around giving you the opportunity to escape to your previous domicile and leave the mess your opinions & unfortunate votes create behind.

 

 

[DEFCON]

"the final step is us welcoming them to be part of our community."

I disagree; the final step requires the immigrant to do his level best to become a productive member of the culture he emigrated to.

[boestar]

52 minutes ago, DEFCON said:

"the final step is us welcoming them to be part of our community."

I disagree; the final step requires the immigrant to do his level best to become a productive member of the culture he emigrated to.

Which the VAST MAJORITY do.  We take in about a Quarter of a million immigrants /year.  Oddly there are more Born and bred Canadians on the Welfare role.

 

[dagger]

12 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

Rich,

My posting is my opinion but seeing you asked....which service in Canada is in the worst shape.....? During a recent survey Canadian's biggest concern was "Health Care". It is floundering...we have lots of roads, lots of school and lots of police, so please...no red herrings.

The new arrivals are welcome to use the roads, the schools and are entitled to police services but how about putting in some money for something  everyone will eventually need including the kids. The new arrival probably didn't have "free" medical care from whence they came so put something in the "pot" before you and your entire family starts to use what most resident ( resident to me means ...have been here a year or so and paid taxes), Canadians have been paying into and are still paying into for their entire life. 

Yes, welcome all those we choose as immigrants but let them understand that you have to EARN the benefits that those that have been here awhile and who have paid into the system.

 

 

 

Kip, first off, I don't buy the narrative that health care is floundering. It has its rough edges, but so does every government service, and for that matter most private sector services. Was at a local hospital for a followup blood test, and got faster service than I got buying a coffee and muffin at the Timmies in the lobby. Some people in some locations, or some provinces, likely have it harder, as they do in most countries where distance is a big issue in health care. If you live in a rural community, care is likely to be inferior to what you can get in the big city.

As for using our "paid up" infrastructure, frankly, we hate paying taxes and if we have needs to renew aging infrastructure it's because it's more than fully depreciated and current taxpayers won't pony up to pay for modernizing, replacing, or supplementing what was built a half century ago. Much of that infrastructure has a finite lifespan. Previous generations paid to build it, long ago, but that doesn't mean that people today have a right to claim, forever, that it has been "paid for". The Gardiner Expressway debate here is proof of that. That monstrosity was never built to last for a thousand year. With the construction materials of the day, it is long past its "best before" day. It should be demolished or replaced but horrors, nobody wants to pay for that. Work on replacing the critical Champlain Bridge in Montreal only began when it became apparent the damn thing was beyond repair and is not far from falling down because of its decriptude..

I can't imagine trying to build the Yonge subway line here in Toronto today. It would be debated to death for a generation. Thank God people a half century ago got over themselves and built the damn thing. So this notion that we are "paying into" is a little more complicated. And anyone arriving in Canada begins paying GST/HST and excise taxes on fuel, etc, as soon as they become mobile. If you buy a subway token, you are helping fund the operation of the subway.

And newcomers aren't drawing OAS, CPP, never had a general checkup from the doctor or all those other things your taxes have paid for and on which you have drawn along the way from the time of your birth, you know, like schooling, the CBC, July 1 fireworks, local fire and police department protection, etc. Sometimes I hear arguments like yours, and it make me think everyone else must be a multi-millionaire because their taxes always seem to fund so much more than mine.

[dagger]

6 hours ago, DEFCON said:

Dagger

You're a weak little man hiding behind a keyboard.

If you want to ignore reality and pretend, keep the rose coloured glasses on.

If I had to guess, you're probably one of those pretend hyphenated Canadians that carries multiple passports around giving you the opportunity to escape to your previous domicile and leave the mess your opinions & unfortunate votes create behind.

 

 

I notice you have started to insult me more, I guess you feel that makes you a big man, but I haven't seen you in front of any keyboards, just standing here forever on a digital soapbox. I have only ever had one nationality, one passport, and no need to hide from the votes I have cast. And I'm not about to start now. I don't think having the kind of paranoia you have is healthy for anyone.

[conehead]

6 hours ago, DEFCON said:

Dagger

You're a weak little man hiding behind a keyboard.

If you want to ignore reality and pretend, keep the rose coloured glasses on.

If I had to guess, you're probably one of those pretend hyphenated Canadians that carries multiple passports around giving you the opportunity to escape to your previous domicile and leave the mess your opinions & unfortunate votes create behind.

 

 

Wow, what brought that on? Daggers last post simply suggested that we smile at people, and they'll probably smile back. Am I missing something?

[Kip Powick]

Yes Dagger.....

....................... and on which you have drawn ................................

True, I have drawn, and am drawing, OAS and CPP and I did contribute to those funds my entire working life. I also paid into UI and never drew a cent from that fund.

I also know where you live but out here in "Smalltown" we have seen our hospital turn into a clinic....not short of funds...really?? My son has had his gallbladder surgery postponed 3 times and he lives in a "Bigtown", my wife can't see a specialist for over a year.

I really don't give a damn about the Gardner Expressway, nor the bridges in Montreal, I use neither. Your rant about infrastructure has nothing to do with  my opinion concerning paying taxes BEFORE you start using the health system which is OPEN to everyone who settles in this country. 

PS...you want to fix the infrastructure in your town.......how about user pay??? Seems to be the flavour of the day for all those things that used to be free and I have no objections to that source of revenue.

PPS...Here in "Smalltown", those of us on the City water and sewer system are paying an add-on fee to help pay for all the new work that is being done...I don't have a problem with that.