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Malcolm

Shootings and Knifings

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Not quite word for word but, from a political POV:

Never let a human tragedy go to waste...

For once, I would like to see something bite the libs in the ass.....hard!

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 This legal opinion explains why your 12 gauge shotgun is now prohibited due to threading diameter at the choke. My solution is simply to self identify as an indigenous female:

https://www.csaaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/SOR2020-96-CSAAA-Legal-Opinion-re-12-gauge-shotguns.pdf

 
      
  
    
    
     
 
Edited by Wolfhunter
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The embedded video is worth watching. 

If nothing else, this action would force the government to defend its position and statistical methodology... if 24 year olds are actually children, I don't think they should be voting. And, if nail guns are firearms every carpenter and homeowner should have an RPAL

https://firearmrights.ca/en/we-are-going-to-court/

Edited by Wolfhunter
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The Nova Scotia shooting was almost 1 month ago.....should the RCMP given an update by now??

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1 hour ago, st27 said:

should the RCMP given an update by now??

As you likely recall, the information release during the Danforth investigation was slow in coming. During interviews, the Police Chief was obviously uncomfortable answering specific weapon related questions.... in short it was deliberately suppressed and the question is why.

I submit that it totally discredited all aspects of the gun control agenda the government was moving forward on that's the reason why.  

We know the guy in NS had access to the officers 9mm and mags, we might guess (but don't know) that he also obtained the C8 from the trunk of the cruiser.

So you are right IMO, they now know what weapons were used and where they were used.... and the silence is deafening. Hopefully I'm not being too paranoid in suggesting that it isn't beyond JT's level of manipulation to have the PMO direct the suppression of that information.

Now contrast what is happening with what we know (from experience) would happen if the shooter was a licensed RPAL holder using registered weapons. To put it mildly, the information release would be substantially different. The very notion that it took 4 days to determine if he had an (R) PAL is completely bogus.... your birthday, your address, even your license plate makes that information instantly available. And every 24 hours your name is run through CPIC to see if you had any encounters with law enforcement in the previous day. I've held a TOP SECRET security clearance for many years, that doesn't get you anywhere close to the level of scrutiny RPAL license holders are held to daily. Lest anyone be reaching for the key board, I'm not talking about the initial issue or renewal process for TS, only the level of daily scrutiny.

The trend to using violence against women as a wedge issue is problematic too. On the one hand it looks bad...because it is bad.  But the failures there are generally systemic as the laws already exist to seize weapons. JT is happy to blame gun owners for those systemic failures though and most people won't even notice the deflection and manipulation.... and he knows it. In fact, anyone pointing it out will be blamed for deflection and misogyny.   

Conservatives need to become more devious, Democrats need to become smarter and learn to use a calendar.... JT has this thing pretty much figured out.

Were I inclined toward his agenda, I would do exactly the same thing... if you say it loud and you say it over and over, your pickup truck can totally morph into a race car simply by adding a few cosmetic items.

This is that and I predict they will stay away from the handgun issue altogether. The gang situation in Toronto would render their efforts moot and place the entire charade into sharp focus with the base, something they need to avoid in order to further the effort. Were I him, there is no way I would touch the hand gun issue either. Lies and manipulation aside, he is getting good tactical advice and implementing it wisely. Discussion no longer matters, the only way forward is through the courts and voter turnout on election day. I look forward to watching them defend bogus statistics and outright lies in front of a judge.

Edited by Wolfhunter

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Hopefully I'm not being too paranoid in suggesting that it isn't beyond JT's level of manipulation to have the PMO direct the suppression of that information. 

I wouldn’t call it paranoia..it is a condition created by the behaviour of this government 😉...

I refer to their governance as the “illusion of doing something”....... the mouths are moving but they aren’t saying anything.

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8 hours ago, Wolfhunter said:

 This legal opinion explains why your 12 gauge shotgun is now prohibited due to threading diameter at the choke. My solution is simply to self identify as an indigenous female:

https://www.csaaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/SOR2020-96-CSAAA-Legal-Opinion-re-12-gauge-shotguns.pdf

 
      
  
    
    
     
 

Firearms group launches charter challenge of weapons ban as Blair clarifies rules for shotguns

A spokesperson for Blair confirmed Wednesday that the choke will not be considered when measuring a firearm's bore diameter.

"The regulation introduced on May 1 does not prohibit 10 and 12 gauge shotguns. The regulation for 10 and 12 gauge is based on their standard size, both under 20 mm," the spokesperson said.

"In accordance with acceptable firearms industry standards, the definition for bore diameter explicitly states that is after the chamber, but before the choke in shotguns.  Therefore, if the measurement is taken at any other location, it is not a factor that is being considered under amendment 95 of the Regulations."

 

Legal opinion suggested some 10, 12 gauge shotguns could now be banned — Ottawa says that isn't true

John Paul Tasker · CBC News · Posted: May 07, 2020 12:04 PM ET | Last Updated: 24 minutes ago
 
A rifle owner checks the sight of his rifle at a hunting camp property in rural Ontario. (Sean Kilpatrick/Canadian Press)
 

A firearms rights group is launching a constitutional challenge of the government's ban on 'assault-style' weapons, saying the regulatory change threatens a fundamental charter right.

The government banned some 1,500 makes and models of firearms last Friday. The Canadian Coalition for Firearms Rights (CCFR) — citing the Charter of Rights guarantee under section 7 of the right to "life, liberty and security of the person" — said Thursday that prohibition is "fundamentally unjust" because it deprives them of their property.

 

The CCFR said only litigation can stop the government's "abusive process." It said it has retained a Calgary-based lawyer who specializes in constitutional challenges.

"The government, in an entirely arbitrary and irrational way, has created legislation that will deprive us of our property and our freedom to live as we wish, on pains of incarceration for failing to comply," said Rod Galitca, CEO and executive director of the CCFR. 

The group acknowledged it has "no guarantee of a win," given past legal rulings by the country's top court on firearms. In the 1993 R v. Hasselwander case, the court upheld the constitutionality of the firearms regime which banned automatic firearms.

"Canadians, unlike Americans, do not have a constitutional right to bear arms. Indeed, most Canadians prefer the peace of mind and sense of security derived from the knowledge that the possession of automatic weapons is prohibited," the court said.

Opposition to the firearms ban has been fierce in some circles. A parliamentary e-petition calling on the prime minister to scrap the "firearms confiscation regime" collected more than 115,000 signatures in just over 24 hours. The petition is sponsored by Conservative MP Michelle Rempel Garner.

The constitutional challenge comes a day after Public Safety Minister Bill Blair clarified the rules on shotguns in response to firearms owners flagging what they saw as a gap in the law that could lead to legal troubles for hunters.

Blair said licensed firearm owners will still be allowed to own 10 and 12 gauge shotguns — even if the removal of a 'choke' means the bore diameter of the firearm exceeds 20 mm.

Another firearms rights group, the Canadian Sports Shooting Association, published a legal opinion that suggested the firearms ban enacted last Friday could prohibit popular hunting firearms based on the new size requirements.

An estimated 2 million of these sorts of shotguns are in circulation in Canada.

The cabinet order prohibited any firearm with a bore diameter of 20 mm or greater — other than one designed exclusively for the purpose of neutralizing explosive devices — meaning Canadians cannot legally use, buy or import such weapons as of May 1.

The bore is the inner diameter of a firearm's barrel.

The Canadian Sports Shooting Association's legal opinion, drafted by Thornhill, Ont. lawyer Edward Burlew, said the removal of a choke — a device added to a firearm to shape how a shot spreads after the trigger is pulled — could make the bore larger than 20 mm.

 
A firearms owner measures the bore diameter of a shotgun that has an adjustable choke. (CBC News)

"Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and minister Bill Blair looked Canadian gun owners in the eye last Friday and said they would not take guns suitable for hunting away from us. Minister Blair is either too inept to comprehend the scope of his regulation or he lied to the government and Canadians," the CSSA said after releasing the legal opinion.

The CSSA then cautioned retailers against selling these firearms to stay on the right side of the law.

But the government said the legal opinion doesn't reflect how police will be interpreting the new prohibitions. "The expert opinion is wrong," Blair said in the Commons Tuesday.

A spokesperson for Blair confirmed Wednesday that the choke will not be considered when measuring a firearm's bore diameter.

"The regulation introduced on May 1 does not prohibit 10 and 12 gauge shotguns. The regulation for 10 and 12 gauge is based on their standard size, both under 20 mm," the spokesperson said.

"In accordance with acceptable firearms industry standards, the definition for bore diameter explicitly states that is after the chamber, but before the choke in shotguns.  Therefore, if the measurement is taken at any other location, it is not a factor that is being considered under amendment 95 of the Regulations."

But the minister's message wasn't well received by the CSSA.

The group said "sophisticated manufacturers and distributors all over the world" are still concerned that the new regulations could render some shotguns prohibited, despite those reassurances from Blair.

"We are not satisfied with a tweet from the minister that everything is OK as the basis for our whole industry's future. There is lots of precedent in [Canadian] law and technical language in legal government documents our industry uses every day that conflicts with this tweeted response," Alison de Groot, the managing director of the CSSA, told CBC.

"We are a $5.9 billion industry in Canada supporting 48,000 full time equivalent jobs. "So no, a Trump-like tweet is not going to cover it."

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

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Saw this story and my first thought was "Look at all the legally acquired firearms"  image.jpeg.bd6074eb180fe2249c32cfef9f4aa50b.jpeg  😀  

3 arrested after 17 firearms and drugs seized in western New Brunswick

headshot.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&w=68&h=68&crop=1
BY GRAEME BENJAMIN GLOBAL NEWS
Posted May 8, 2020 12:54 pm

Police say 17 weapons and drugs were seized as a result of the two search warrants being executed. .  Police say 17 weapons and drugs were seized as a result of the two search warrants being executed. . New Brunswick RCMP

Mounties say the drug and weapon seizures occurred after police executed two search warrants in Maple Ridge and Centreville, N.B.

READ MORE: New Brunswick RCMP identify remains as Adam Grant Howard, investigating death as suspicious

Police say the search warrant in Maple Ridge was executed at around 6 a.m. on Thursday as part of an ongoing drug and firearms investigation that began in January 2020.

“During the search, RCMP seized quantities of what is believed to be cocaine and 16 firearms including two loaded handguns and four firearms that are prohibited,” police said in a news release Friday.

A 60-year-old old man was arrested at the scene, released and is scheduled to appear in court on Sept. 2.

The second search warrant was executed at around 6 p.m. along Cove Street in Centreville, where police seized what is believed to be methamphetamine, cocaine and hydromorphone pills.

A 19-year-old man and a 24-year-old woman were arrested at the home. The woman was released and is scheduled to appear in court at a later date.

READ MORE: Man, woman in custody after 2 others were shot: Saint John police

Police say 19-year-old Sebastien Gerald Blaney from Maple Ridge appeared in court by way of a tele-remand and was charged with unsafe storage of a firearm.

He remains in custody and is scheduled to appear in Woodstock provincial court on May 11.

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Note the dates.... no delay in getting this info, (complete with picture) into the public domain:

https://www.ckfm.ca/news/local-news/alberta-government-investigation-into-officer-involved-fatality/

Keep watching now, they will start hitting the violence against women angle hard.... that's exactly what I would do if I were a Liberal with an agenda (and nothing else).

Edited by Wolfhunter

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35 minutes ago, Wolfhunter said:

Note the dates.... no delay in getting this info, (complete with picture) into the public domain:

https://www.ckfm.ca/news/local-news/alberta-government-investigation-into-officer-involved-fatality/

Keep watching now, they will start hitting the violence against women angle hard.... that's exactly what I would do if I were a Liberal with an agenda (and nothing else).

No delay as Alberta has a very good investigations team . And no hook to the Liberals.

Here is the goto to their report: https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=71307A064E2B2-CBE7-2F28-6DB8C9632C863339

ASIRT....

Purpose

Created under the Police Acthttps://open.alberta.ca/publications/p17 ASIRT investigates Alberta police officers whose conduct:

  • may have caused serious injuries
  • may have caused death
  • has led to serious or sensitive allegations of police misconduct, such as:
    • breach of trust
    • obstruction of justice
    • sexual assault
    • perjury
    • theft
    • fraud

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9 hours ago, Marshall said:

No delay as Alberta has a very good investigations team

So does Nova Scotia and Ontario, I'm familiar with the concept and process.

But my (albeit anecdotal) observation is that If it's a licensed owner, a registered weapon, a weapon they want added to the prohibited list, or an incident involving violence against women, weapon identification will be virtually immediate, will always include a picture and that picture will receive wide distribution. That was the reason I used the radio station site in the link. In addition, successful police raids always follow the same release strategy.   

If not though it will take 4 days or more just to release the fact that the shooter wasn't licensed... the Danforth investigation is analogous here (IMO). In short, it just seems to me that anything which serves to weaken the governments position is released slowly (like pulling teeth), anything that strengthens it (or promotes police efforts) will be released quickly with closeup pictures and it appears obvious to anyone who closely follows the issue. 

Here is a quote (from a CBC article no less), that captures, in a single sentence, why I think this approach is so damaging and why it should be avoided. Regardless of a persons stance on the issue at hand, people should pause for a moment and consider the impact of manufactured wedge issues on political polarization.... potentially a bigger issue than the subject under discussion IMO. Politically, a huge problem in the US right now and it appears we don't want to be left out:

"A healthy democracy relies on citizens believing that they will not be treated unfairly if their side loses an election." 

 

Edited by Wolfhunter

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12 hours ago, Wolfhunter said:

 

"A healthy democracy relies on citizens believing that they will not be treated unfairly if their side loses an election." 

 

'somewhat off topic but the quote you posted, does / has, applied in the West no matter which national party achieved power thus the belief, of some,  that the voting process in Canada needs to change to one that is more representative of the population of the entire country as a whole.  I suspect however that will never happen. Back to guns, I have in the past owned guns and maybe even own some now (redacted information  )  .  I have never seen the need to have or use a semi automatic weapon, so I would support a ban on semi automatic weapons rather than the current one that seems to be based on the look of the weapon. I don't mention automatic weapons as most, if not all are already banned. 

Also of course bans never have and never will keep illegal arms out of the hands of criminals.

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1 hour ago, Marshall said:

 I have never seen the need to have or use a semi automatic weapon, so I would support a ban on semi automatic weapons rather than the current one that seems to be based on the look of the weapon.

Is your car a standard transmission or automatic? 

Do you have a thermostat in you house or do you manually turn the furnace on and off? 

Do you have a coffee maker with a timer so that you can have coffee ready when you wake up?

Power locks?

A electronic key fob that allows you unlock the doors as you approach the car. 

Motion sensor lights?

Why would a person need any of those?  I don't see the need.

A semi-automatic rifle is nothing more than the natural evolution that every device man has created goes through - advanced and improved technology to relieve the user from some of the required processes.  You're right, there's no need for a semi-auto rifle just as there's no need for a toaster that pops the toast up when it's done.

A semi-automatic rifle allows a hunter to get a second shot which perhaps makes him/her successful where they wouldn't otherwise be.  A semi-auto rifle allows a target shooter to keep the rifle on the target and not need to manually cycle the action which perhaps improves accuracy.

Now, don't start with an objection about "bad guys" using a semi-auto in the commission of a crime because we've already established that these people don't follow the existing laws so preventing me from having my semi-auto hunting or target rifle will have zero effect other than to deprive me of my recreational activity.

I could fill this whole forum with examples; we don't need sports cars, golf courses, sailboats or Harleys.  Nobody needs $5000 speakers or granite countertops - just because I think those things are pointless, wasteful or abnoxious doesn't mean that they aren't useful or provide enjoyment to others.

BTW, I take exception to the use of the word "weapon".  Using that logic I could call that thing in my gun cabinet a semi-automatic "paper hole punching device" because that's all it's ever been used for.  It's not a "weapon" unless it's used as such. The thing we're talking about here is a semi-automatic "rifle".

Edited by seeker
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Seeker just like you I am entitled to my opinion. In all of my years hunting, one shot was enough (I made sure of my target). Target practice, no problem using a bolt action weapon and the list could be a lot longer.  Pump action shotgun worked well for me when birding or shooting clay targets.  The other devices you use in your rant, are convenience items, I see no convenience level in a semi automatic weapon, just bad marksmanship. 😀

You state t 

Quote

A semi-automatic rifle is nothing more than the natural evolution that every device man has created goes through - advanced and improved technology to relieve the user from some of the required processes.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, seeker said:

BTW, I take exception to the use of the word "weapon". 

Guilty, but I think it's a military thing that captures everything from handguns to wing stores to torpedos. 

Like a lot of ex infantry types (I think), I see all of these things as tools with each having its place and function, much the same as motorcycles.... dirt bike for the bush, cruiser for the road, windshield for the cold days and bags for the long haul. But I still just call em bikes. I have no use for sport bikes but don't want them banned simply for being ugly.

Other than that, I'm in complete agreement and you saved me a bunch of typing... thanks 

BTW, for a variety of reasons, I don't have much use for AR15 (type) critters either. While I'm proficient in their use, they're just not a tool I have need of for the type of events I participate in. But, I certainly don't begrudge them to those so inclined simply because I don't use them. We have entered into that realm as a society though and the urge to ban things YOU don't use or YOU don't like has become a disease that's all to easy to justify as opinion. 

But here is the real point for me, and I've had this very conversation too many times with people at the range.... shotgun folks could care less about the proclivities of the IPSC crowd and the reverse is also true. Those sentiments are desperately short sighted though and they play directly into JT's agenda of divide and concur. 

The Gauls employed that very same "tribal mentality" when Julius took them to task as well, and we know how that worked out for them.

Edited by Wolfhunter

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30 minutes ago, Marshall said:

So I guess you would include fully automated aircraft, automatic weapons etc. in that classification?

 

LOL, there ya go....clearly the only reasonable conclusion a person could come to, that Gulf of Reasonableness is a huge body of water EH?

Just out of curiosity, can you name a couple of the systems you are referring to in the quote?

Did we make the jump directly from bolt action rifles to combat UAV/UAS and autonomous point defence systems? Clearly I'm going to need a bigger boat.

Edited by Wolfhunter

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48 minutes ago, Marshall said:

Seeker just like you I am entitled to my opinion. In all of my years hunting, one shot was enough (I made sure of my target). Target practice, no problem using a bolt action weapon and the list could be a lot longer.  Pump action shotgun worked well for me when birding or shooting clay targets.  The other devices you use in your rant, are convenience items, I see no convenience level in a semi automatic weapon, just bad marksmanship. 😀

Yes, you're entitled to your opinion - fine.  The line is crossed however when you become willing to restrict what others can have and do based on it - where you said "I would support a ban on semi-auto".  You say in "your opinion" that a semi-auto isn't needed for hunting and that you see "no convenience" in a semi-auto.  Well, others do see convenience in a semi-auto.  In fact, that's exactly what a semi-auto is all about - convenience.  You're making a value judgement based on your personal history and then saying it should apply to everyone else.

Regarding your incredible "one-shot" hunting ability - were you using a single shot rifle or did it have a magazine?  If it had a magazine, did you load the mag with more than one cartridge?  Why?  The answer is to be ready with another shot if you needed it.  A semi-auto just makes the hunter a little more ready than you were.  Personally, the only semi I have ever hunted with is a Ruger 10/22 when hunting Grouse.  I liked the challenge of trying for a headshot and Grouse will typically not fly away if you shoot and miss so a semi works well.  If I was to hunt for larger game (which I never have) I would use a bolt action because of the lighter weight and reliability but others see value in having a semi and I choose not to make those judgements for them.

 

Edited by seeker

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14 minutes ago, Wolfhunter said:

LOL, there ya go....clearly the only reasonable conclusion a person could come to, that Gulf of Reasonableness is a huge body of water EH?

Just out of curiosity, can you name a couple of the systems you are referring to in the quote?

Did we make the jump directly from bolt action rifles to combat UAV/UAS and autonomous point defence systems? Clearly I'm going to need a bigger boat.

Not sure what you are looking for with your question, I am talking only about civilian use of guns. I contend that there is absolutely no need for a semi automatic weapon.

  Military and Police are a separate boat (so to speak)

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37 minutes ago, Marshall said:

I contend that there is absolutely no need for a semi automatic weapon.

But is it worthy of a ban because you don't need it?

Others might suggest that that there is no longer a place for lever action Model 94s in the era of semi automatics and 5 round restrictions and that you should be subject to the same capacity restriction on your Cooey Model 60 bolt action (.22) rifle. 

They might also point out that the lunatic who assaulted  Parliament did it with a lever action cowboy gun and thus, they should be banned as a result. Since I use neither, "I contend that there is absolutely no need for a capacity greater than 5 rounds in your bolt action rifle."

It worries me a bit when people advocate for banning things simply because they don't need or want them. Personally, as a farm boy, I find the conversion of prime land to golf courses (in my area) to be an assault on the family farm that we may come to regret... albeit that's a different thread but more poignant now in the throws of a pandemic and possible regional shortages.

But here's the point (I think), golfers won't care until there is no steak available at the clubhouse, then they will blame farmers for the shortage that their demands (for new courses) helped create.... but by then, the farmer will be retired and living off the proceeds of the sale and won't care. I fear a lot of this is circular and we are in danger of becoming the poorer for it.

Edited by Wolfhunter

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26 minutes ago, Marshall said:

And on the attack you are......   

Bolt action rifles (some single shot but most would take a clip) sometimes a 2nd shot was needed to complete the kill but mostly provided the opportunity to harvest another critter,  pump action. 410 with internal storage, single shot 12 gauge, bolt action 22 (single shot) used for hunting grouse and pheasant (did not use a shot gun as I did not like to have to pick out pellets from the carcass) , single shot 22 pistol (used for target practice -cheaper ammo) etc.  I agree I was overboard with my inclusion of aircraft etc, but perhaps you will agree that you were overboard with your "convenience challenge".  I have removed that from my initial reply and perhaps as you asked me to do (not so long ago) you can remove that quote from your reply.  Cheers .  

Fair enough, edit completed but you will need to edit your quote of my response as well.

Look, Marshall, not intended as an attack.  Let me try to clarify, ok?

I respect your opinion as I have lots of opinions myself.  😉  But, to get past that, we have to try to prevent our opinions or our value judgements from being imposed on others.  Banning semi-auto rifles simply because it doesn't fit in with your value framework or past history isn't really fair to those who value them.  Take the example of Harley motorcycles.  I hate them.  I've owned 3 street bikes - 2 Hondas and a Yamaha but I think Harleys are an assault - hear them coming from 3 blocks away as they are designed to be loud.  Other people seem to enjoy owning and driving them - they derive value from them.  Should I say "ban Harleys" because I see no need for them. 

You see, the crux of the argument is not about semi-autos at all.  It's about the imposition of somebody else's value system.  It doesn't matter than you see no need for semi-autos and I see no need for Harleys - in either case, those who do see value in those things should be allowed to enjoy them.

 

 

Edited by seeker

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14 minutes ago, Wolfhunter said:

Personally, as a farm boy, I find the conversion of prime land to golf courses (in my area) to be an assault on the family farm that we may come to regret... albeit that's a different thread but more poignant now in the throws of a pandemic and possible regional shortages.

 

So funny, I often use the "golf course" value comparison in my discussions too.

 

Quick joke - What you call a golf course, I call a terrible waste of a rifle range.

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I removed my entire response as not sure which one you meant. I also admit my dislike of semi auto weapons (for civilians) is coloured by many encounters with Mr/Mrs blaze away who missing their first shot kept shooting until their magazine was empty with no regard /care as to when their additional rounds were ending up.  And then there were also the ones who talked about their hunt and admitted to taking (sound shots).   

 

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