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Malcolm

Shootings and Knifings

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Fort Lauderdale airport shooting: 'Multiple shot dead' by Florida gunman

Fort Lauderdale airportImage copyright PBS

"Multiple people" have been shot dead by a lone gunman at Fort Lauderdale airport in Florida, say officials.

The airport said there was an "ongoing incident" at the baggage claim area in Terminal 2.

Barbara Sharief of Broward County Mayor's office said a gunman was in custody.

Hundreds of people were standing on the tarmac as dozens of police cars and ambulances rushed to the scene.

Former White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer said in a tweet: "I'm at the Ft. Lauderdale Airport. Shots have been fired. Everyone is running."

 

Are you in the affected area? Did you witness the events? You can share your experiences by emailing haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk.

If you are willing to speak further to a BBC journalist, please include a c


ontact telephone number.

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2 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

Are you in the affected area? Did you witness the events? You can share your experiences by emailing haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk.

If you are willing to speak further to a BBC journalist, please include a c


ontact telephone number.

Translate that to:  We don't want too hire real reporters.  Please tell us in as dumbed down a manner as possible what you think may have actually happened.

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11 minutes ago, boestar said:

Translate that to:  We don't want too hire real reporters.  Please tell us in as dumbed down a manner as possible what you think may have actually happened.

most overseas news stories from the BBC carry that request, afterall even the BBC can not be everywhere. :lol:  But let us not divert from the actual news.  It would seem that the targets were in a very soft security area. 

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19 minutes ago, dagger said:

Shooter flew ANC-MSP-FLL on Delta.

Next trick will be to get either DL or Broward County law enforcement to confirm the shooters routing or airline. 

I'm getting very concerned that Canadian are about to stuck with an inaccurate connection to another US domestic terrorist incident.

 

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We just got an update from AC.  Shooter not listed on any flights, nor did we carry any guns to FLL.  It appears his routing was ANC-MSP-FLL.

Probably someone thought Alaska is in Canada.  There have been known to be some geographically challenged folks down there.

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I'm down here. Neighbour told me it was a pax from Canada. Terminal 2 is where the AC gates are located for YUL and YYZ. As soon as NBC confirmed the shooter came in on a DL flight, I went to my "informant" and corrected him.

Meanwhile, my wife was at dinner with another FA who was exchanging texts with a pax on a jet being held on the tarmac.

 

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I don't think how he got to  Fort Lauderdale, (his routing) is of any significance, nor is it significant if he flew out of Canada or not or if he flew on a Canadian airline

You have a case of an individual who checked his baggage through and declared a gun in his baggage which is legal with every airline.

What prompted him to do what he did is important and whether there was a greater plan. Based on the fact that he gave himself up  might mean he just "lost" it. It will be up to the appropriate authorities to  ascertain any other relevant data.

 

 

Edited by Kip Powick
speling

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UPDATE................

Update.....CNN reporting he was an Iraq war US vet and stated that he "heard voices". Another case of a PTSD vet...like out in NS???

 

Edited by Kip Powick
added "US"

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CNN also reported that the guy walked into a FBI office 2 months ago in Anchorage, and told them that ISIS was forcing him to work for them. 

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TorStar

The man police say opened fire with a gun from his checked baggage at a Florida airport had a history of mental health issues — some of which followed his military service in Iraq — and was receiving psychological treatment at his home in Alaska, his relatives said Friday after the deadly shooting.

“Only thing I could tell you was when he came out of Iraq, he wasn’t feeling too good,” his uncle, Hernan Rivera, told The Record newspaper.

Esteban Santiago, 26, deployed in 2010 as part of the Puerto Rico National Guard, spending a year with an engineering battalion, according to Guard spokesman Maj. Paul Dahlen.

In recent years, Santiago had been living in Anchorage, Alaska, his brother, Bryan Santiago, told The Associated Press from Puerto Rico. Bryan Santiago said his brother’s girlfriend had recently called the family to alert them to his treatment.

In November, Esteban told FBI agents in Alaska that the government was controlling his mind and was forcing him to watch Daesh, also known as ISIS or ISIL, videos, a law enforcement official said. The official was not authorized to discuss an ongoing investigation by name and spoke Friday on condition of anonymity.

The FBI agents notified the police after the interview with Esteban Santiago, who took him in for a mental health evaluation.

Bryan Santiago said his brother never spoke to him directly about his medical issues.

“We have not talked for the past three weeks,” Bryan Santiago said. “That’s a bit unusual ... I’m in shock. He was a serious person ... He was a normal person.”

 

Esteban Santiago was born in New Jersey but moved to Puerto Rico when he was 2, his brother said. He grew up in the southern coastal town of Penuelas before joining the Guard in 2007.

Since returning from Iraq, Santiago served in the Army Reserves and the Alaska National Guard in Fairbanks. He was serving as a combat engineer in the Guard before his discharge for “unsatisfactory performance,” said Lt. Col. Candis Olmstead, a spokeswoman. His military rank upon discharge was E3, private 1st class, and he worked one weekend a month with an additional 15 days of training yearly, Olmstead said.

She would not elaborate on his discharge, but the Pentagon said he’d gone AWOL several times and was demoted and discharged.

Still, he’d had some successes during his military career, being awarded a number of medals and commendations including the Iraq Campaign Medal and the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal.

His uncle and aunt in New Jersey were trying to make sense of what they were hearing about Santiago after his arrest at the Fort Lauderdale airport. FBI agents arrived at their house to question them, and reporters swarmed around.

Maria Ruiz told The Record that her nephew had recently become a father and was struggling.

“It was like he lost his mind,” she said in Spanish of his return from Iraq. “He said he saw things.”

In Anchorage, police officers told reporters that they were interviewing people at an address for Santiago but wouldn’t give details and were keeping journalists away from the home. FBI agents were also seen at the scene by neighbours.

Santiago was flying from Anchorage on a Delta flight and had checked only one piece of luggage — the one containing the gun.

He was involved in a number of minor court cases in Alaska, including fines for not having proof of insurance and a criminal mischief case that led to a deferred sentence. His attorney, Max Holmquist, declined to discuss his client with an AP reporter.

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12 minutes ago, DEFCON said:

You can bet bullets are going to be on the next no - fly list.

Perhaps but that is really not fair to all the hunters that travel.

Why not put locks through the triggers and the passenger has to see  an agent at the airport exit to get the lock off....just an opinion.

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33 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:

Perhaps but that is really not fair to all the hunters that travel.

Why not put locks through the triggers and the passenger has to see  an agent at the airport exit to get the lock off....just an opinion.

Only problem with that Kip is the airlines would have to provide the locks so as to prevent a perp. keeping a extra key for their lock. and of course once the lock was off.....................

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34 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:

Perhaps but that is really not fair to all the hunters that travel.

Why not put locks through the triggers and the passenger has to see  an agent at the airport exit to get the lock off....just an opinion.

We were talking about the same thing at work today. 

They should have to go to Special Services to check in the weapon, at which point it would be locked in a case provided by the airline, and the key then taken and given to the Flight Crew.  On arrival, the Flight Crew hands over the key to the arrival agent, who then takes it to a special retrieval area.  It is only at this point that the Agent manning the arrival area opens the case and the weapon is returned to the owner.  As well, a police officer should be present when the handover occurs.

As well, all other luggage is scanned at check in and any ammunition has to be tendered with the weapon. 

 

Edited by deicer
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Am I missing something ? The baggage retrieval area in most airports can be accessed by anyone in the general public, especially in the US. So anyone in the general public could have walked in, and inflicted the same damage as the guy who checked his gun. Unless you are going to have metal detectors for anyone coming into an airport, this tragedy of people being shot in a baggage retrieval area by someone is not preventable by having trigger locks, not shipping bullets etc. He could have been handed a gun, bullets etc. by an accomplice, or simply started the shooting in Anchorage before he boarded the flight. Unfortunately, this was a mentally sick man who seemed to snap at the wrong time for those in FLL. Very sad, but not uncommon. While we hear about some gun attacks, do you know the number of mass shootings that have occurred in the US in 2016 (a mass murder is defined as more than 4 or more people killed or injured in one attack, not linked to drugs) ? 385, More than 1 a day. http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls  And that's not a unique year - in 2015 it was 333. And so far in 2017, there has also been more than 1 a day. To quote Barack Obama

 “Earlier this year, I answered a question in an interview by saying, “The United States of America is the one advanced nation on Earth in which we do not have sufficient common-sense gun-safety laws — even in the face of repeated mass killings.” And later that day, there was a mass shooting at a movie theater in Lafayette, Louisiana. That day! Somehow this has become routine. The reporting is routine. My response here at this podium ends up being routine. The conversation in the aftermath of it. We’ve become numb to this.”

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44 minutes ago, AvWatcher said:

Am I missing something ? The baggage retrieval area in most airports can...............................

With all due respect...yes, you are missing something. This forum, as you well know, leans mainly on news concerning the airline industry, updates on the industry as well as some of the problems in the industry.

Members attempt to put their thoughts and possible solutions to a recent, or long time problems, up on the board and hope others will bring up their own discussion points. In my opinion I feel that is far better than burying ones head in the sand, quoting statistics, and intimating that there is little anyone can do about the problem.

So at the present time is there ever going to be a solution to counter the use of firearms in all venues that airline passengers and industry employee may find themselves in?

The short answer is “No”.

Is there any methodology that may make it safer for passengers and industry employees to be 100 % free from the possibility of gun violence in the airport environment?

Absolutely .. Build a wall around the airport and no vehicles, or persons may enter the area without their person being subjected to a full body scan which includes their vehicles and baggage….Everyone is subject to this “new” law and there are NO EXCEPTIONs.

We know that idea is ridiculous and is not even close to a consideration, so we must come up with a more acceptable method of protecting everyone in the airport from gun violence and include one discerning fact that is cast in concrete in the land south of the Great White North.

There is no way that the USA will rescind or amend part of their constitution concerning the “right to bear arms” but as ridiculous as some ideas may seem to  others  I think it is appropriate for those in the industry to be heard and perhaps initiate a starting point concerning  firearms and the accessibility to firearms in airports..

Hopefully there are discussions going on everywhere concerning “firearms” in the airport but common sense dictates that we do know that there is no solution that will allow every person no matter where they may be, or where they work, to be 100 %  guaranteed that we will not be a victim of gun violence.

So do you have any possible solutions that are reasonable and are worthy of discussion?

 

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So the immediate solution and probably the easiest for the airlines to implement, would be to ban guns in checked baggage altogether...either ship it as cargo or FedEx it to destination. (Having solved that problem, what if a wacko checks a large bladed weapon,pulls it out and starts hacking?) The gun owners would complain, but as demonstrated,which is a greater problem?

On the other hand, with the amount of firearms in the US, and to Kips point, regulation is a non starter. These instances will continue to occur, with law enforcement always playing catch up.

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Avwatcher said what I would have said. There is an immediate response to an incident with various "solutions" suggested.....more controls; more security; more technology......and all in response to what? The first shooting in a US airport baggage retireval area? Clearly this was a planned attack but planned in isolation by a mentally ill veteran with advanced ptsd. Eliminating mental illness....or realistically, identifying and treating or isolating those suffering from  mental  illness from civil society.....that would be more effective and would not "punish" the millions who are simply bystanders or victims.

I think Avwa was simply suggesting that prohibiting the transport of weapons or requiring that checked weapons (guns) be retrieved from a security officer...neither solution would have forestalled a shooter in FLL determined to shoot innocent travellers.

Implementing those "solutions" would not in fact prevent shootings but would inconvenience scores of travellers and would cost more money and increase bureaucracy.

Ever watch some of our "security agents" at work? God forbid that they be regarded as a significant line of defence. They spend more time chatting with each other, flirting and planning breaks than they do actually looking at and assessing travellers as a risk. They rely on their wands or the xray to give notice and if those instruments "fail", then the defensive wall has been breached.

I reported before that I was in RSW at a gate and noted a bag unattended. I asked nearby passengers whether any of them owned the bag or saw it left. It was unclaimed. It looked suspicious. So...I went in search of security personnel. I eventually went to the screening area and found a manager and reported my concern. About 30 minutes later, an airport officer on a bike came to the area and picked up the bag without any inspection or safeguards and departed the scene.

End of story. And if that bag had contained any kind of movement activated trigger device for an explosive substance, that police officer would have caused the death or injury of many.

And upon this we shall rely?

 

 

 

  • Like 2

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I was being facetious Kip; I agree with your position above.

If a van load of heavily armed Islamists show up anywhere at any airport, and it's going to happen, they win. If a mentally ill guy does the same thing, he will likely succeed.

Now, I don't believe that a return to the ways of the old west would be wise, but if the public were all armed, we'd at least be able to fight back and give ourselves a chance of surviving such an event.

Regardless, even if we were to develop successful anti gun strategies, when the nutters and bad guys come to realize guns have become impractical, terror will evolve in favour of the group, or guy that can build bombs at home; and so our dilemma will continue  ...

We're living in a challenging new age.

 

 

 

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This event gave us a scare. Our son picked up his girl friend, who flew in on AC/rouge, from that FLL baggage area the same morning. 

PTSD is an ongoing problem for US service people. Millions of dollars are spent training them to kill. It seems unless you exhibit clear mental issues once you've returned to civilian life, you could be a ticking time bomb. At some point this National Guard veteran was looking for help. I'm curious what the medical evaluation revealed and if any precautions were taken.

From the Toronto Star report:

In November, Esteban told FBI agents in Alaska that the government was controlling his mind and was forcing him to watch Daesh, also known as ISIS or ISIL, videos, a law enforcement official said. The official was not authorized to discuss an ongoing investigation by name and spoke Friday on condition of anonymity. The FBI agents notified the police after the interview with Esteban Santiago, who took him in for a mental health evaluation.

 

 

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I wonder if the mental health of returning vets wouldn't be better if the wars they were told to fight were legitimate and had a goal the services could aim to achieve?

 

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