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Pilot Charged by Calgary Police


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You cannot do a check on these sorts of things.  This piliot may never have had an issue or black mark on his record EVER.  One day he over indulges and does something stupid but he was fine 6 months ago.  That just does not make sense.

You could look at my driving record.  Never driven drunk.  But what if one day I have a few too many and mu impaired judgement places me in the driver seat, Would you have been able to see that coming?  I don't think so.  this is no different.

This story is being used for one thing only and that is to push an agenda (which I do not disagree with) to reduce or eliminate foreign pilots.

 

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2 hours ago, boestar said:

You cannot do a check on these sorts of things.  ...

This story is being used for one thing only and that is to push an agenda (which I do not disagree with) to reduce or eliminate foreign pilots.

 

boestar with respect, I disagree with two of your statements.

First off, as ICAO has an international agreement on licencing, one most certainly CAN verify from the state of issue that a licence was issued.  Beyond that, many jurisdictions apply some form of testing (e.g. written examination on air regs) to those seeking to exercise commercial privileges aboard aircraft registered in their state.  While that is not foolproof, it does serve somewhat to deter fraud.

Second, this is not, at least among the pilots I've spoken with recently, primarily about jobs and pay.   All pilots are affected by safety problems in any one of our operations.  Whether it's in the same flight deck, where poor decisions or handling open that flight to risk, or indirectly, via something like a runway incursion or failure to follow a clearance, admitting an unqualified or unfit individual into operation can have immediate, far reaching and significant consequences. 

Even this individual, though thankfully incapacitated before things got too far (this time - begs another question), has, through his behaviour, called the profession into question and prompted an industry-wide reaction from the Transport Minister.

So no, it's not about the agenda to reduce or eliminate foreign pilots.  It is, at its heart, about the reduction of risk.

IMO

Vs

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Hence the call for mandatory drug and alcohol testing upon check-in. Why would anyone reasonably object when the potential consequences of impairment are so significant? As stated, there are no forehead markers to herald the condition.

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On 1/20/2017 at 6:40 AM, Vsplat said:

boestar with respect, I disagree with two of your statements.

First off, as ICAO has an international agreement on licencing, one most certainly CAN verify from the state of issue that a licence was issued.  Beyond that, many jurisdictions apply some form of testing (e.g. written examination on air regs) to those seeking to exercise commercial privileges aboard aircraft registered in their state.  While that is not foolproof, it does serve somewhat to deter fraud.

Vs

Transport Canada regularly issues verification letters for Canadian pilots seeking foreign employment. That said, the letter only verifies what is in the document booklet. There is no mention of past performance on check rides or even anything relating to regulatory violations. It's been several years but the last time I saw one issued by the UK CAA, it was essentially the same. I have no direct knowledge but I believe Sunwing gives every foreign pilot a PPC along with their company indoctrination training. None of this is guaranteed to help them weed out a pilot with a drinking problem.

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J.O.  I think we are saying the same thing.  My comment was simply about fraud.  The verification letter, while limited as you say, at least deals with that one aspect - what the license says matches what it should say.  To be clear, Canadian pilots have, on occasion been caught for altering their own license, though the last case I know if predated the current passport format.

Regulatory violations are an interesting sidebar.  Up to a point, violations won't affect a license.  But a suspension would show up.

Vs

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1 hour ago, Vsplat said:

J.O.  I think we are saying the same thing.  My comment was simply about fraud.  The verification letter, while limited as you say, at least deals with that one aspect - what the license says matches what it should say.  To be clear, Canadian pilots have, on occasion been caught for altering their own license, though the last case I know if predated the current passport format.

Regulatory violations are an interesting sidebar.  Up to a point, violations won't affect a license.  But a suspension would show up.

Vs

How does a Canadian pilot go about altering his or her licence?

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8 minutes ago, conehead said:

Forgery.

I've interviewed a lot of pilots and of course reviewed their documents. Haven't come across a forged Canadian licence before or after the CAD system. Reference checks usually revealed any issues at previous employers. Favorite comment from the other end of the phone was ".....nice guy but I wouldn't hire him". :)

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At a company I used to work for we had a Flight Engineer that was actually in a Training position that was not qualified and working in the position.  He was using a forged license.  All flight engineers that were trained by him had to go through re training.

It happens but is normally kept fairly quiet.

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14 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

And way back in 2009 it happened in Canada. http://www.pprune.org/canada/367387-westjet-employee-faked-atpl.html

I believe this former Westjet pilot just never submitted an actual ATPL. It was other supporting documentation which Westjet should not have accepted however due to some family members employed by the airline they allowed it. 

And in a previous case at Wardair, it was TC who issued the pilot an ATPL in error. So neither of these were forged documents, just unusual circumstances which these pilots abused. 

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45 minutes ago, boestar said:

At a company I used to work for we had a Flight Engineer that was actually in a Training position that was not qualified and working in the position.  He was using a forged license.  All flight engineers that were trained by him had to go through re training.

It happens but is normally kept fairly quiet.

Interesting situation. I'd be curious to know if the documents were forged TC/MOT issue or a foreign country. 

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13 hours ago, blues deville said:

Interesting situation. I'd be curious to know if the documents were forged TC/MOT issue or a foreign country. 

In this case someone elses certificate number was used so yes it was forged and was a Canadian Certificate.  I worked with the ACTUAL license holder at the time which is how it was discovered.  When you look in a logbook and see your License number attached to a different name and it wasnt you in the plane.  It did not take long after that to bring him down.

 

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People are always prepared to advocate in favour of policies that are ever more corrosive to the notion of personal privacy, but only when they don't impact on them directly.

Can anyone reference a single aviation crash in the Western world where alcohol, or drugs were determined to be a causal factor?

A number of air carriers, SW being one, are already requiring pilots to respect a home grown 20 hour bottle to check-in restriction, which is a fine new rule to push on new hires, but where does the authority to restrict longer term pilots on their 'time off' come from? What's to stop AC, or any other carrier from instituting a 30 day bottle to throttle policy?

Did anyone, including the Regulators, ever wonder about the sobriety of the Judge, or lawyers working a case, or the physicians that are about to take you down and start removing body parts, or does the outcome of the case, or one's personal safety not matter in these circumstances?

Then there are people like those pretending to govern at every level in Canada ... is there not good reason to question the sobriety, not to mention the sanity of these groups?

  

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Defcon: the following does support your stance, at least for the US .

Quote

RESULTS

During 1995 through 2002, major airlines reported a total of 511,745 random alcohol tests to the FAA. Of these tests, 329 had BACs of ≥ 0.04% and 111 were not carried out because the employees refused to be tested, yielding an overall prevalence rate of 0.09%. Prevalence rates of alcohol violations varied significantly with occupation, ranging from 0.03% for flight crews to 0.19% for non-federally employed air traffic controllers (Table I; p < 0.001). Because of their large populations, maintenance personnel and flight attendants together accounted for 78% of all alcohol violations detected through random testing. The prevalence of alcohol violations detected from random testing increased from 0.07% during 1995–1997 to 0.11% during 1998–2002 (p < 0.001) when the annual testing rate decreased from 25% to 10% (Fig. 1).

Fig. 1
Prevalence rates of alcohol violations among U.S. major airline employees with safety-sensitive functions, 1995–2002.
TABLE I
PREVALENCE RATES OF ALCOHOL VIOLATIONS BY OCCUPATION AMONG U.S. MAJOR AIRLINE EMPLOYEES WITH SAFETY-SENSITIVE FUNCTIONS, 1995–2002.

The association between alcohol violation and accident involvement was assessed by contrasting random testing data with post-accident testing data. Of the 1821 post-accident tests performed during the study period, 4 (0.22%) had BACs of ≥ 0.04%. The estimated OR of accident involvement associated with alcohol violations was 2.56 (95% confidence interval 0.81–7.08). Given the estimated OR (2.56) and violation rate from random testing (0.09%), the proportion of aviation accidents attributable to alcohol violations was estimated as 0.13%.

Here is a goto for the complete study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2041869/

However there was a more recent study done by the FAA  with the following conclusion:


 

conclusion.jpg

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ScreenShot004.jpg

The problem with the above numbers is that they do not specify if their conclusion was garnered using AIRLINE  pilots or just pilots in general. If one does not take that into consideration,one might think airline pilots are not doing that well with regards to abstaining....flamed.gif

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I haven't looked at the FAA study, but I would like to know the numbers posted above are based on air carrier pilots only and don't include all the other types who compromise the vast majority of licencees and are the most likely to consume intoxicants prior to flight and then become involved in an incident.

Also, toxicological reports that indicate a pilot had consumed alcohol 'sometime' prior to flight is not an indicator of impairment; i.e., the pilot may have had a glass of wine 24 hours prior to the fatal flight.    

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1 hour ago, Kip Powick said:

ScreenShot004.jpg

The problem with the above numbers is that they do not specify if their conclusion was garnered using AIRLINE  pilots or just pilots in general. If one does not take that into consideration,one might think airline pilots are not doing that well with regards to abstaining....flamed.gif

Kip: here is the goto the faa report (pdf) file:///C:/test/200822%20(3).pdf It contains some detailed case studies that, I believe, supports an assumption that the problem does not lay with Airline Pilots in general.

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  • 3 weeks later...

And now that the Feds have become involved.  I note the mention of employee assistance programs,  something most if not all major airlines in Canada have had in place for 20 + years. I was personally involved in setting one up in the 70s.  Where have they been? Just another exercise in "Happy Days". 

Major Canadian airlines confirm safety protocols in place for flight crews

$(document).ready(function (){ setTimeout("FetchPrevNextReleases(414069233)",500); setTimeout( function(){ $(".cf_arrowtail").css('display','none'); } , 5000); });

Transport Canada to consult stakeholders on health and safety in aviation industry

OTTAWA, Feb. 17, 2017 /CNW/ - On January 5, 2017, Transport Minister Marc Garneau asked all airlines operating in Canada to confirm their safety protocols are up-to-date, including measures designed to confirm pilots' fitness to fly.

It is a criminal offense in Canada for a flight crew to work within eight hours of consuming alcohol or while under the influence. All Canadian airlines must follow the Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs) to ensure they operate safely. Transport Canada sets and enforces these regulations; it is the airline's responsibility to ensure that their employees follow them.

The top eight major Canadian airlines have all since confirmed that they have proper safety protocols in place to deal with alcohol and drug testing. This represents 90 per cent of passengers carried by Canadian air operators.

Canada's largest passenger air carriers are also required to have a Safety Management System (SMS) in place to help them identify safety risks before they become bigger problems and ensure that safety is part of their day-to-day culture. This includes having proper procedures in place to make sure pilots are fit to fly.

Transport Canada is tracking the information requested by Minister Garneau to guide discussions at the Fit to Fly Workshop in June 2017.

The purpose of this workshop is to:

  • Raise awareness on the importance of employee assistance programs;
  • Provide information on practical methods of promoting a healthy workforce;
  • Establish networks for information-sharing and partnerships;
  • Provide health services information; and
  • Discuss the topic of random alcohol and drug testing.

Associated Links

Transport Canada is online at www.tc.gc.ca. Subscribe to e-news or stay connected through RSS, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and Flickr to keep up to date on the latest from Transport Canada.

This news release may be made available in alternative formats for persons living with visual disabilities.

 

SOURCE Transport Canada rt.gif?NewsItemId=C8950&Transmission_Id=

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Now that he has indeed pleaded Guilty, it is time for his lawyer to attempt to modify the sentence. Still did wrong but even I don't think gaol is the answer, as no one was injured / killed by his actions, mandatory addiction treatment would be more suitable.

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1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

till did wrong but even I don't think gaol is the answer,

Perhaps if he was in 'goal' the Flames would have a better standing.....:o

 

Yes, I know 'gaol' is for you hangers-on-to-the-Union Jack  but us no longer members of the "Dominion of Canada" prefer " jail":lol::):P

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3 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

Perhaps if he was in 'goal' the Flames would have a better standing.....:o

 

Yes, I know 'gaol' is for you hangers-on-to-the-Union Jack  but us no longer members of the "Dominion of Canada" prefer " jail":lol::):P

Kip: as a great fan of the old country and so many of my relatives who still refer to the "Dominion of Canada" and the others who still regard us as The Colonies, I think you may be splitting heirs with your comment.:dueling:   :icon_butt:

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