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Castro Dead


Jaydee
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All this attention from the US press cannot be good for Canada in the long run. Now that Obama is toast, Canada will have no friend or credibility south of the border.

LA Times joining the fray...

 

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-goldberg-castro-useful-idiots-20161128-story.html

Edited by Jaydee
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'Useful idiots'. Can it be any clearer, everyone out side of a handful of Canadians seems to be well aware that this Country promoted a completely unqualified 'dude' to a position of huge responsibility.

As troubling as it may be for some, Trump is Canada's last hope too.

 

 

 

  

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Having spent a bit of time in HAV I am not sure you would get a consistent answer about Castro from Cubans.

He seemed to be looked upon as a beloved grandpa by some whose time had passed by. There was also out and out hatred as many realised they were being kept down by a system designed to oppress.

I think there is probably some room in the debate about Castro to note that he did some good but it MUST be acknowledged that he created a police state where many dreams of middle class status were basically impossible to acquire unless you were politically connected.

There are plenty of sites out there that catalogue Castro's human rights abuses that are not "US propaganda" He was a tyrant who loved a lavish lifestyle at the expense of his people.

The fact that our PM did not release a statement acknowledging that he was more than "controversial" showed a level of ineptness that I found surprising and disappointing. 

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He did a lot of good for the country.  Bautista would have been a far worse option had he been allowed to continue.  Every Leader has some "tyrant" in them. Just look at the US and Guantanamo bay.  The only reason that is there is to be away from prying eyes so they can do whatever they want.

Had the US lifted the embargo years ago, Cuba would be a lot further ahead than it is now.  That being said, the country has had a lot of success.  

Who are we to judge the way his country is run anyway.  Communism fell in the USSR and look at it now.  not exactly a success story.  Sure it wasn't great under communist rule but things kinda fell apart after the curtain was taken down.  

These are two radically different styles of government but who is to say which is better?  Are Americans really free?  Americans are having their civil right violated every day due to the Patriot act being enacted under GWB.  if the price for freedom is the loss of freedom then America is no better.

I deal with Cubans every day in my job.  Some are happy he is gone, most of them are young.  The older ones who remember back then do not share the hate for him.  The young ones see the "freedom" they could have and resent the fact they don't

The media portrays him as a ruthless dictator which I think is an exaggeration.

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I do not consider myself a right wing ideologue by any stretch but do take exception with the comment of whose to say which way is better.

Ask most Russians if they would go back to Soviet rule and you would get a resounding Nyet. Putin rules with an iron fist but economic prospects far better than under communism. Without individual property rights you can't have a middle class and a decent society, no property rights under communism (or on Reserves for that matter but a different post entirely.)

Not a fan of The Patriot Act but last I checked journalists were not getting thrown in jail and people are free to associate with, and say whatever they like. Free to dissent as well as the protests taking place can attest.

I don't know your point on the US and Guantanamo Bay but the issue is more than just degrees of being a tyrant.

I don't think the portrayal of him as a dictator is wrong. No challenge to his rule and ruled how he saw fit without tolerating ANY dissent.

I think there is probably some romanticizing of him because I think most people would admire someone who stood up to the US for so long. Let's not let rooting for the underdog distract from the fact that he killed or imprisoned gay people, journalists and political dissenters, seems pretty tyrannical to me.

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Chock....look at the antics of Ken Starr and the imprisonment of Susan McDougall for contempt for refusing to testify.

You don't think journalists are jailed in the US? Look up Judith Miller. There are better examples than her. There was a Miami Herald invextigative report in 2004 detailing the number of US journalists jailed for contempt.

I'm sorry but I think it naive to suggest that one is able to speak freely in the US without fear. That is simply not true. People do in fact get bundled into dark cars and moved out of the country without recourse. That happens in Canada as well though only generally in cooperation with the US.

No one spends much time thinking of the "dark side" but it exists. It is much less frightening to look beyond the borders and vilify the obvious demons than to contemplate the demons in our back yard.

Was it you or someone else who suggested Castro lived in luxury? That is also untrue. He lived modestly by comparison with ANY foreign leader despot or "democratically" elected.

Democratic!! El dorado poo poo. Do you know the shenanigans that go on to get the nomination in your riding of either party? Make your hair curl. And then, you get elected but if you're not "in", you have no voice....none. And if you were so presumptuous as to voice disagreement with the "party position", you're out!

So much for " the voice of the people". Do you think that is representational democracy or acknowledge that at the end of the day we are all scurrying little ants favored with the opportunity to rant and rave on forums and think that translates to "freedom". 

In my opinion, we all have chains....some thicker than others...and though it may be hard to appreciate, Castro was enslaved by his own.

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Hi UD 

In terms of Castro living humbly there are plenty of links on line. I generally don't like to get into an arguement of dueling links but his lifestyle is described here, nit sure how humble I would call it.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/nypost.com/2015/05/10/inside-fidel-castros-luxurious-life-on-his-secret-island-getaway/amp/&ved=0ahUKEwj5nP_3ztTQAhUC02MKHaCbAK8QFggoMAQ&usg=AFQjCNFiA_6ScndRtvjYWXPBcgCdie6SRA

Without getting in to a existential arguement about freedom I would still submit that we in the US and Canada have far more freEdom than any Cuban, think it is conspiratorial and paranoid ro suggest otherwise.

The people you mentioned as jailed were given due process, they didn't find themselves in a jail or in front of a firing squad with no recourse as so many Cubans did.

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The minute the U.S. started flying into Cuba looked what happen to prices. They stared using the US dollar which raised prices for Canadians by 40%. Talked about a kick in our face since we were supporting them. 

Also, I'm sure many are afraid if they really open up to the Americans, especially the Cuban Americans who would want their properties back, let alone the corporation that were booted out by Castro. 

Not a fan of him, but there will be interesting times ahead. 

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Chock.....

Just to note that there is one common source for the stories on Castro's "secret life of luxury"...his former employee. And I venture to suggest that reading between the lines, one appreciates that "luxury" is manipulated to serve one's purpose. An "88 foot private yacht", for example, exists at every dock at every marina in Florida ( or so it seems) and range in value from almost nil to over a million.

It may sound paranoid but it is not delusional....I KNOW of incidents that might make your hair curl. "Due process " can sometimes be no more than a faint nod towards lawful procedure while proceeding to " get it done!" And even then, "lawful procedure" is a bucket of potential.

But I definitely agree....you can get away with a LOT more in Canada and the US than you could in Cuba. One of the many rewards of living in a quasi-pluralist society.

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Hi UD

I will bow out of this one at this point but Forbes has had Castro on their Billionaires list for years. Unsure why you are determined to portray Castro as living a life of humility when by all appearances he did not.

As with most political message board arguments I don't think either of us will change the other's mind.

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This is one of those rare topics where all opinions seem fairly reasonable.

No matter how you cut it, the lifestyle of the Castro brothers improved considerably following their ascension to power, but not so much for the majority of the locals they claimed to have freed from the bonds of corrupt foreign & national capitalists.

 

 

 

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I got to see one of Castro's residences when I accidentally took a turn up a private driveway on a scooter. Looked pretty good to me.

 

I was also a recipient of the free medical care they provide for their citizens(not related to the above incident) and it was definitely third world, not first class.

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Chock....

 

I respect that decision and your reasons. Let me emphasize.....Ias I know you understand, I don't know anything about Castro from first-hand observation or from what I would consider " informed sources". I am just one of the " muddled masses".

We can all agree that he was both reviled by many and revered by at least as many.

When I move on...if as many speak well of me as don't, I will consider it a life well-lived.

By that measure...and admittedly my bar is not terribly high...Castro did okay for himself.

As IFG would say.....cheers!

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