A resounding NO!

[Specs]

14 hours ago, Gumbi said:

Isn't the problem with Rouge that the "service" is not up to par with Star Alliance's requirements?

Lufthansa doesn't have a Rouge equivalent that EU bound passengers can be connected to - Germanwings? Eurowings?

[dagger]

10 minutes ago, Specs said:

Lufthansa doesn't have a Rouge equivalent that EU bound passengers can be connected to - Germanwings? Eurowings?

Which is probably why Lufthansa pilots are on strike today - well, there's money, too.

[Zan Vetter]

LH pilots would walk away and never come back if they ever saw the contracts we have in Canada. 

 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Zan Vetter said:

LH pilots would walk away and never come back if they ever saw the contracts we have in Canada. 

 

Here is what they currently have, all amounts in EUs.

http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Lufthansa_German_Airlines

Lufthansa German Airlines pilot jobs Wiki Home ---> Europe (Legacy) pilot jobs ---> Germany (Change operator name/classifications)  Red text indicates fields that were changed during the last update on 15 August 2016
Pilots' Detailed Payscale - please state whether payscale is before or after tax (pension, per diems and brief payscale are listed further down the page) Effective from:   Listed pay rates are: (yearly, hourly etc) Monthly Currency: Euros  (click here to use the currency converter) Guaranteed hours: (if applicable)   Addtional notes: Salary increases above approx. 70 hours per month. Maximum allowable hours per month are approx 90 flighthours. Around 40% taxes in Germany. Difference between Germanwings and Lufthansa Passenger Airlines contracts regarding extra pay       Fleet   No detailed payscale available yet. To update the factfile please click on submit new information.                           Rank                             Year   submit new information
Brief Payscale (please state whether before or after tax) (please ignore if the detailed payscale above is up to date) last update Capt top 193000 €/year before tax after 15yrs 14/Dec/15 Capt base 117000€/year before tax 28/Dec/15 FO top 110000 €/year before tax after 15 yrs 14/Dec/15 FO base 55200 €/year before tax 14/Dec/15 SO top     SO base 4100 €/month before tax 14/Dec/15 FE top     FE base     submit new information Additional Duty Pay / Per Diems for Lufthansa German Airlines Pilot Jobs last update Capt 50 EUR 8/Feb/16 FO 48 EUR 8/Feb/16 SO     FE     submit new information Pension Details for Lufthansa German Airlines Pilot Jobs last update     submit new information Conditions for Lufthansa German Airlines Pilot Jobs last update Roster Minimum 10 days OFF per month, usualy around 11-13 days per month. 35 days per quarter. 14/Dec/15 Leave 42 days   Staff travel Yes   Discounted holidays Yes   submit new information       Lufthansa German Airlines Pilot Jobs Situation last update   Current Situation:   Rumors of upcoming pilot shortage, however definitely no hiring until persistent labour dispute is resolved. 27/Jun/16   Outlook:   No employment within "KTV" at the moment.   16/May/16   Overall Hiring Situation (+ve/neutral/-ve): Neutral   27/Jun/16    submit new Lufthansa German Airlines pilot jobs information Lufthansa German Airlines Pilot Jobs Entry Requirements (including preferred pilot schools) last update Captain   No upgrading since beginning of 2013. A lot of SFO'S are waiting about 15 years. Upgrades currently only at Eurowings Europe (bad salary). 19/Jul/16     FO   Ready entries with cpl ir atpl theory credit and 600 h will be invited for DLR in 2011. www.lhpilot.de 6/Oct/10     SO   not needed, there are no cruise relief pilots in LH. 2/Apr/14     FE           Scholorship   Expect no new classes to start until including 2017. Even if earlier classes start, waitinglist is in progress filling up at least one year of new classes in Bremen. Sending your application now will maybe lead to a class in 2018.   10/Nov/14  submit new information Recruitment Process for Lufthansa German Airlines Pilot Jobs last update Application Stop: No new applications till JAN 2015. All assesment-slots for 2015 already filled. Waitinglist for start of class for FQ positive students is in progress. Due to closure of LFT (Lufthansa-Flight-Training Bremen) 2015 - and probably till 2017 - waiting time to start the assessment is increasing. Assessment successors have a vague estimate of training to start maybe 2016/17 (but under different circumstances then)   10/Nov/14    submit new information Fleet last update Current:   A319 (30), A320 (59), A320neo (4), A321 (64), A330-300 (19), A340-300 (18), A340-600 (24) (4 units in storage and on sale),A380-800 (14), B737 (7), B747-400 (13), B747-8 (19) 15/Aug/16   Orders:   A350-900 (25), A320ceo (6), A320neo (46), A321neo (41), B777-X (34)   15/Aug/16   submit new information

[Guest]

Looks like we now have a "Yes"\ "the devil will be in the details. 

WestJet pilots endorse long-haul expansion plans

 

CALGARY, Dec. 23, 2016 /CNW/ - WestJet announced today that its 1,380 pilots have voted in favour of the company's plans to expand its successful wide-body operations. Such approval is required under the airline's agreement with the WestJet Pilots Association. 

"Our long-haul, wide-body flights to Hawaii and London (Gatwick) have brought low fares and more choices to hundreds of thousands of guests, reinforcing our position as Canada's low-fare leader," said Gregg Saretsky, WestJet CEO. "This agreement reflects the collaborative relationship we have with the WestJet Pilots Association (WJPA) and now allows us to proceed with plans to expand our wide-body operations to new destinations in the future. We will now turn our attention to acquiring additional wide-body aircraft to satisfy the demand for our low fares."

WestJet currently operates four Boeing 767-300ER aircraft in its winter schedule on non-stop routes to London (Gatwick) from Toronto and Calgary; to Hawaii from Edmonton and Calgary; and on select transcontinental routes including between Toronto and Calgary.

About WestJet
We are proud to be Canada's most trusted airline, powered by an award-winning culture of care and recognized as one of the country's top employers. WestJet, and our regional airline, WestJet Encore, offer scheduled service to more than 100 destinations in North America, Central America, the Caribbean and Europe. Through our partnerships with airlines representing every major region of the world, we offer our guests more than 150 destinations in more than 20 countries. Leveraging WestJet's extensive network, flight schedule and remarkable guest experience, WestJet Vacations delivers affordable, flexible travel experiences with a variety of accommodation options for every guest. Members of our WestJet Rewards program earn WestJet dollars on flights, vacation packages and more. Our members use WestJet dollars towards the purchase of WestJet flights and vacations packages on any day, at any time, to any WestJet destination with no blackout periods  ̶  even on seat sales. For more information about everything WestJet, please visit westjet.com.  

[better4me]

After reading the latest presser, I have to think that all Saretsky got was an increase to the number of 763/widebody aircraft allowed into WS. 

Were working conditions and or pay part of this new agreement? Devil in the details indeed. 

[better4me]

WS3 cncl due to lack of crew. Now. WS610 cncld for same reason. Overall 4 WS flts cncl this morning no associated with weather in winterpeg. Could this be an indicator of industrial action at WS?

[Airband]

'Dozens of Winnipeg flights cancelled ahead of winter blizzard'

[Johnny]

http://scudrunners.com/qantas-thrilled-westjet-vote/

Qantas is happy! 

[Seeker]

Awesome!  Somebody's missing their calling as a humor writer for SNL.  (Probably not as funny for any Westjetters though).

[Super 80]

I don't think there are any Qantas 767-338s left in the desert.

[Maverick]

6 hours ago, seeker said:

Awesome!  Somebody's missing their calling as a humor writer for SNL.  (Probably not as funny for any Westjetters though).

I thought it was pretty funny! 

[Outside Looking In]

Agree there is humor in this story even for westjetters. there was a time when a westjetter was not afraid to laugh at themselves. I am sure there are a few inside the campus that will fail to see the humor but I thought it was well done

[Guest]

With pilots deal, WestJet set to expand long-haul flights

No word on what new transatlantic destinations the airline plans to add

By Tracy Johnson, CBC News Posted: Jan 05, 2017 5:00 AM ET Last Updated: Jan 05, 2017 8:37 AM ET

WestJet is looking to expand its long-haul flights now that it has a deal with its pilots. (Darren Bernhardt/CBC)

 

WestJet's pilots have voted in favour a new agreement that will allow the airline to expand its long-haul flights, adding more competition in the market, which means more choices for consumers in overseas air travel.

After a failed vote in November, 77 per cent of WestJet pilots in late December OK'd a new deal that will pay pilots more to fly wide-bodied jets, such as the Boeing 767. The airline said that with the deal in place, it will now look to buy more aircraft.

"This agreement reflects the collaborative relationship we have with the WestJet Pilots Association (WJPA) and now allows us to proceed with plans to expand our wide-body operations to new destinations in the future," said WestJet's chief executive Gregg Saretsky in a statement.

Westjet and its London experiment

WestJet launched its transatlantic flights to London's Gatwick airport this past spring. While the airline sold plenty of seats, there were many delays and cancellations over the first several months of operation related to mechanical issues with the four Boeing 767s that WestJet purchased to service the route. Those issues continue to trouble the route, with flights out of London being cancelled as recently as Christmas Day.

• WestJet and London: A mess or a success?
• 'It just doesn't work for us': WestJet on new YYC international terminal

The airline describes the route as a success, though. In its most recent earnings report, WestJet said it flew nearly six million passengers in the third quarter of the year — a record. 

"The best opportunity for us is to grow the wide-bodied fleet responsibly but quickly," Saretsky said on the company's earnings conference call in November.

 

Other airlines sizing up Canada

WestJet launched its transatlantic flights at a time when other discount airlines are looking to expand here.

Iceland-based airline Wow began offering connecting flights from Montreal and Toronto to Europe through Reykjavik in May, the same month WestJet began flying to London.

• Liberal transport plan loosens rules on foreign ownership of airlines, promises passenger rights regime
• NewLeaf should be on the hook for passenger costs, says advocate

As well, Irish airline Ryanair and Norwegian Air are eyeing North America. The latter recently ordered 19 Boeing 787 jets with the option to buy 10 more, and has just been licensed to fly between the European Union and the United States.

"The greater threat [to WestJet] is from Norwegian Air, which has a huge order for 787s and a very low cost structure." said Fred Lazar, who follows airlines at the Schulich School of Business at York University in Toronto.

"Norwegian Air will probably try to enter the Canadian market, so [WestJet needs to] get a foothold before they are established, be somewhat competitive on fares, or try to," said Lazar. 

Lower fares coming?

WestJet has not said what new destinations it has in mind. That will depend on demand and the type of aircraft it ultimately purchases. But it is likely to offer competitive fares on any new route it launches, as it did when it started flying to London.

However, Lazar isn't expecting rock-bottom Ryanair-type prices.

"WestJet is not looking to shake things up dramatically," said Lazar.

"On any of the routes it starts flying, probably for the first six months there will be some very attractive seat sales and Air Canada will match them with their Tango fares," Lazar said. "Then if traffic builds, as WestJet expects, then fares will tend to rise up."

[Guest]

National Post reporting that WestJet is researching a new aircraft type and has asked both Boeing and Airbus for input. There are lots of A330s on the used market, I wonder if they will be looking at them or going with a new aircraft?

INSIGHT FROM FLIGHTGLOBAL: Pressure on A330 and 777-200ER values

·       

 

 

·       

 

·        12 JANUARY, 2017

 

·        SOURCE: FLIGHTGLOBAL PRO

By the close of 2016 we will have seen over 360 new twin-aisle passenger jets delivered to airlines, a record number, continuing the renewal of the long-haul and higher-capacity fleet. However, this is leading to increasing remarketing challenges for some of the types being replaced and a consequent negative effect on Values and Lease Rates. This article focusses specifically on the A330 and 777-200ER.

In light of growing availability and storage of A330s, in November Flight Ascend Consultancy made a downward adjustment to Current Market Values for the A330-200 and -300HGW. Both had previously experienced stable values since the beginning of the year, but numerous reductions in Lease Rates since the start of the year, including a 3-10% reduction in October, are reflective of growing supply and lower demand. The market has been witnessing lessors having to go to new lows to get aircraft placed.

The A330-200 is seeing a rapid increase in lease returns and parking of aircraft, so that the parked fleet now stands at over 50 aircraft, of which we are aware of only eight having new operators lined up. Emirates has been continuously parking its fleet and returning aircraft, others have come from the fleets of LATAM, Avianca Brazil, Eva and Qatar among others. Turkish Airlines has been adding aircraft, including ones formerly with LATAM (Brazil), but in November it parked 12 A330-200s as it cut back its route network in the face of a challenging 2016. It remains to be seen how temporary this action is. The parked total is now almost 10% of the A330-200 fleet, which is a very high level for a commercial production twin-aisle aircraft.

Some aircraft are moving – Air Berlin and SunExpress Germany are each adding two, while Aerolineas Argentinas, VIM and Wamos Air will take one each. Leases this year have included aircraft going to Shaheen Air in Pakistan, TAP, Air Transat, Azores and Onurair. In fact the A330 combined operator base stands at roughly 100 airlines – approximately double that of the 777.

However this growing operator base has come at a price. A330-200 Market Values were reduced by between 3% and 8%, with the oldest vintages seeing the greatest percentage reduction. Lower Lease Rates (which have continued to drop since the start of the year) are also a symptom of lower revenue earning potential of an aircraft type where roughly half the fleet is owned by lessors. Values now range from $23 million to $77 million in half-life or better condition for our basic specification.

The parked aircraft include those managed by at least seven lessors, with others available through brokers and Airbus. There were also a number of further lease expiries by year end. This highlights the magnitude of the challenge that lessors face, and is reflected in the most recent leases being negotiated and signed.

The A330-300 situation is better in that the parked fleet is more focussed on 15 low-weight -300s (pre-1999 vintage) which realistically are going for part-out. Another is the prototype P2F freighter conversion at EFW in Germany, the first of four for DHL. The eight reasonably new -300HGWs which are parked are all destined for Turkish, most being ex-Skymark machines with Intrepid and due to be leased in early 2017. Considering that the same airline just parked 12 -200s, it remains to be seen if these plans are changed.

A330-300HGW values were reduced by between 2% and 6% in November, once again with the oldest vintages dropping the most. At the newer end, value changes are informed by recent new aircraft pricing observed, while at the older end, despite a lack of meaningful sales transactions, the reduction is reflective of the fixed premium over its -200 sibling, which cannot grow in the current market environment. Values now range from $29 million to $91 million in half-life or better condition, for our basic specification.

Another type under scrutiny is the 777-200ER, where the parked fleet is now some 9% of a 400-strong fleet. Market Values and Lease Rates were last reduced in Q2, by around 5% and 18-20% respectively. In the midyear update, current Base Values were reduced by 6-11% depending on the vintage. The impairment is reflective of a permanent hit to 777 values caused by the latest spike in availability which the type will not recover from in the long term.

There are currently 33 -200ERs which are parked and unplaced, most coming from Singapore Airlines (12), Malaysia Airlines (nine) and Emirates (five).

There has been some limited activity, with VIM in Russia adding four ex-Malaysia and -Singapore -200ERs this year and due to take two of five parked ex-Transaero machines. Omni in the US added two ex-Kenya aircraft for charters and Alitalia is also leasing an ex-Vietnam machine.

Of the parked fleet, 28 have Rolls-Royce Trent 800 engines and it is interesting to note that demand for the engine is actually stabilising as a number of new operators are opting not to enrol in TotalCare agreements but rather go with time-and-material engine maintenance, which improves demand for spare engines and supports the value of "green-time", protected by a high overhaul cost. We believe this is an encouraging sign for Trent 800 values longer term.

The type is now entering its retirement cycle, albeit in low numbers at present; the freight conversion programme is looking unlikely to be launched and the replacement options are increasing. Five -200ERs have been parted out this year, all 18-19 years old, three with Trent engines and two with Pratt & Whitney PW4090s.

Both the A330-200 and 777-200ER are facing remarketing challenges.

The operator base of the A330-200 has grown by four in the past year and the near 500-strong fleet is now spread among 76 operators in 56 countries, a good spread which helps liquidity. By contrast, the larger 777-200ER has a more concentrated base, around half that number. Half of the fleet is with just five of the 34 operators. Over the past five years, the operator base has stayed fairly static.

Having said that, it is still a key type for American, United, Air France/KLM, while IAG/British Airways has committed to life-extension programmes on the 777-200ER fleet, taking them out to 30 years of service. It will convert to 10 abreast economy seating for a Gatwick-based fleet of 25 used on mainly leisure routes from 2018. The fifth largest user, Saudia, will however retire its fleet of 23 through 2017, replaced by new A330-300s. This should increase availability of General Electric-powered examples and we expect a number of them to be parted out.

In summary, we are seeing supply increasing for both used and new aircraft and this is a key period for fleet rollovers of types like the A330 and 777-200ER. They are in a market where activity is focussing on weaker credits, lower rentals and strong lessor competition, both against each other and against airlines looking to sell or sub-lease unwanted capacity.

 

[J.O.]

The day that the WestJet logo is found sitting on an Airbus on their ramp, you'll be able to knock me over with a feather.

[Guest]

I will obtain a suitable feather just in case. 

[Super 80]

I doubt WestJet would want the A330s that are going really cheap, not even Delta wants them despite lots of tire kicking last year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see newly built WestJet A330-200s. I just don't think WS can stomach the price of the 787.

[Fido]

Unless Westjet wants to fly deep into Southeast Asia they do not need a 787.

[Super 80]

And that is why there will still be around 250 767-300/400ER and 777-200s in US service a decade from now.

[rudder]

Best plane in class not yet built is the 330NEO. Lots of demand from current 330 operators not interested in the A350. Won't be cheap.

[Maverick]

On 1/13/2017 at 7:53 AM, J.O. said:

The day that the WestJet logo is found sitting on an Airbus on their ramp, you'll be able to knock me over with a feather.

I have no inside information but I would be very surprised if Airbus hasn't presented something scribed out with a very sharp pencil.

[better4me]

On 1/13/2017 at 7:44 AM, Malcolm said:

National Post reporting that WestJet is researching a new aircraft type and has asked both Boeing and Airbus for input. There are lots of A330s on the used market, I wonder if they will be looking at them or going with a new aircraft?

INSIGHT FROM FLIGHTGLOBAL: Pressure on A330 and 777-200ER values

Interesting article, thanks for posting. 

To summarize; 

- The 332 problem is caused by the untimely parking of the Turkish Airlines fleet. What the article does not mention is how serious TK is at remarketing the airplanes. Would |TK let the aircraft go for deep discount or are the airplanes on short term park until their domestic political situation is resolved. 

- The 333 problem is the same, if TK takes the exSkymark aircraft the market is in balance.

- The 772ER problem is caused by MH parking and deeply discounting their entire 772 fleet. The fleet has shown some resiliency in price considering that MH basically ran a Priceline "name your own price" auction with no minimum reserve bid. 

Conclusion:

If the coup in Turkey had not occurred, there would be no issue with 332 or 333 fleet values. Further, it could be hypothesized that no coup would have also fully stabilized the 772 valuation as a complementary competitor would not  be diving down prices.