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deicer

Trump Wins

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It is the morning after, and Trump has taken the election.

So as one who didn't see it coming, yes it was a shock.  As with all elections where the person you don't 'support' is the winner, it is now time to just take a step back and allow the will of the people to take hold.

What does the next four years bring?  Who knows.  Whatever it does bring, I hope that it isn't infected with the obstructionism that has been happening for the last eight years, and it is allowed to happen organically.

God Bless Canada!

 

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I didn't, and don't, like the guy but I always expected him to do better than the media predicted.  I expected a narrow win for Clinton.

There is one aspect of the coverage last night that I quite enjoyed - watching the talking heads' words and phrasing slowly shift as they came to the realization that they had been dissing the wrong person.  The coverage this morning is strangely subdued but I expect it start to ramp up as the editors and producers get their themes and the narrative straightened out.

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No joy in Mudville:

 

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Edited by seeker

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Well....I'll say this...regardless of the result, you fought the good fight Deicer.

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Thank you UD.

This round may be over, however, hopefully it won't turn out as I feared, and the world may be a better place.  If not, then we'll just have to carry on.

Cheers :b:

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Wife is returning her Canadian Red and White pantsuits today >>>>>>>

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Well said, deicer.

The American people have voted for change. Like everyone else I look forward to seeing how that change comes about and what it looks like. 

 

 

Edited by Don Hudson
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World reaction: a lot are now wishing they were able to retract their remarks regarding President Elect Trump. Some world leaders comment on Trump victory

Trudeau says Canada hopes to advance 'our strong and prosperous partnership' with U.S.

The Associated Press Posted: Nov 09, 2016 5:43 AM ET Last Updated: Nov 09, 2016 9:43 AM ET

Russian President Vladimir Putin talked of 'building a constructive dialogue between Moscow and Washington' in a message to U.S. president-elect Donald Trump. (Alexei Nikolsky/Presidential Press Service/RIA Novosti/Associated Press)

 

Leaders from around the world were quick to react — by tweet and telegram, with congratulations and requests — to Donald Trump's election as U.S. president. 

Russia

Russian President Vladimir Putin has sent the Republican a telegram congratulating him on winning the U.S. presidential election early Wednesday. In a brief statement, the Kremlin said Putin expressed "his hope to work together for removing Russian-American relations from their crisis state."

Putin also said he has "confidence that building a constructive dialogue between Moscow and Washington that is based on principles of equality, mutual respect and a real accounting each other's positions, in the interests of our peoples and the world community."

Canada 

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau stressed the importance of trade, investment and security in his congratulatory remarks early Wednesday. 

"Canada has no closer friend, partner and ally than the United States," Trudeau said in a statement. "We look forward to working very closely with president-elect Trump, his administration, and with the United States Congress in the years ahead, including on issues such as trade, investment, and international peace and security.

"The relationship between our two countries serves as a model for the world. Our shared values, deep cultural ties, and strong integrated economies will continue to provide the basis for advancing our strong and prosperous partnership."

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Canada has 'no closer friend, partner, and ally than the United States.' (Sean Kilpatrick/Canadian Press)

Israel

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu congratulated Trump, calling him a "true friend of the State of Israel."

Netanyahu said Wednesday he believes the two leaders "will continue to strengthen the unique alliance between our two countries and bring it to ever greater heights."

Earlier, a key ally in Netanyahu's centre-right coalition, Education Minister Naftali Bennett, said Trump's victory means that "the era of a Palestinian state is over." The Palestinians want a state in lands Israel captured in 1967.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called Trump a 'true friend of the State of Israel.' (Pablo Martinez Monsivais/Associated Press)

France

President François Hollande said Trump's victory launches "a period of uncertainty."

"This new context requires that France be strong," he said, in French, in a statement released via Twitter. "What is at stake is peace, the fight against terrorism, the Middle East and the preservation of the planet."

China

Without commenting directly on Trump's election, China's government said Beijing hopes to work with the new U.S. administration to build sustainable ties and expressed confidence the two countries can handle trade disputes maturely.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang told reporters in Beijing that China is "looking forward to making concerted efforts with the new U.S. government to ensure the sustainable, steady and sound development of bilateral relations" to benefit both countries' people and the world.

 

Germany

Chancellor Angela Merkel offered Trump "close co-operation" on the basis of shared trans-Atlantic values that she said include respect for human dignity regardless of people's origin, gender or religion.

Merkel told reporters in Berlin on Wednesday that the campaign that ended in Trump's victory featured "confrontations that were difficult to bear."

Germany's Angela Merkel offered Trump 'close co-operation' on the basis of shared transatlantic values. (Hannibal Hanschke/Reuters)

Merkel stressed Germany's close historical connection with the United States. "Germany and America are connected by values: democracy, freedom, respect for the law and for the dignity of human beings, independently of origin, skin colour, religion, gender, sexual orientation or political views."

She added: "On the basis of these values, I am offering the future president of the United States of America, Donald Trump, close co-operation."

She said the partnership with the U.S. "is a foundation stone of German foreign policy."

Turkey

Turkey's prime minister called on Trump to extradite a U.S.-based Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen — blamed by Ankara for the failed coup in July — as soon as he is sworn in.

Binali Yildirim also said Wednesday that he hoped that the new leadership in the United States would take into consideration Turkey's "sensitivities concerning the fight against terrorism," give priority to policies that would bring peace and stability to the region and advance traditional friendship between the two countries.

Ties between the two allies have been strained over perceptions in Turkey that the United States is reluctant to arrest and extradite Gulen

India

Prime Minister Narendra Modi congratulated Trump in a message posted on Twitter.

Modi tweeted that "we appreciate the friendship you have articulated toward India during your campaign."

He added that "we look forward to working with you closely to take India-US bilateral ties to a new height."

Trump had reached out to Indian-American voters at a rally in New Jersey in mid-October, praising Modi and vowing to defeat terrorism while acknowledging that India had suffered terror strikes, including the deadly 2008 attacks that killed 164 people.

In the Indian capital Wednesday morning, a small group of men from the rightwing Hindu nationalist group Hindu Sena celebrated Trump's victory at a central protest ground, where they brandished posters and photos of the U.S. president-elect while dancing and sharing sweets.

Philippines

President Rodrigo Duterte, who has lashed out at Barack Obama for criticizing his deadly anti-drug crackdown, congratulated Trump.

Duterte said he looks forward to working with the new American leader to further enhance the treaty allies' relations.

 

Duterte, who took office in June, has had an uneasy relation with the U.S. The 71-year-old leader has announced his desire to scale back joint combat drills with the U.S. military and end the presence of foreign troops, including Americans, in the country in two years.

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said he looks forward to working with Trump to further enhance the treaty allies' relations. (Bullit Marquez/The Associated Press)

In Duterte's statement on Trump's victory released by his spokesman, however, the tough-talking Philippine leader was unusually diplomatic.

"President Duterte wishes President-elect Trump success in the next four years as chief executive and commander-in chief of the U.S. military, Communications Secretary Martin Andanar said in a statement. Duterte, he said, "looks forward to working with the incoming administration for enhanced Philippines-US relations anchored on mutual respect, mutual benefit and shared commitment to democratic ideals and the rule of law."

Iraq

The Iraqi government said relations with the U.S. have a "solid base" and this is not expected to change after Trump's election.

Government spokesman Saad al-Hadithi, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that Iraq is keen to develop its relations with the U.S. and "boost co-operation in the fight against terrorism."

Iran

Iran's semi-official news agency Tasnim has quoted the country's foreign minister as saying that the U.S. needs to implement its part of multilateral international commitments under last year's historic nuclear deal.

During the campaign, Trump criticized the deal and suggested he would try to renegotiate it. Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif was quoted saying that any U.S. president "should have a correct understanding of realities of the world and our region and face them realistically."

European Union

The EU's foreign policy chief said that the trans-Atlantic ties with the United States go beyond the election of Trump.

Federica Mogherini said Wednesday in a Twitter message that "EU-US ties are deeper than any change in politics. We'll continue to work together, rediscovering the strength of Europe."

EU Parliament President Martin Schulz said the result "must be respected" as he said that Trump "managed to become the standard-bearer of the angst and fears of millions of Americans."

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John Ivison: Inexplicable Trump victory caught Trudeau Liberals off guard, but Canadians must accept it

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John Ivison | November 9, 2016 8:21 AM ET
More from John Ivison

Though Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has been assiduous in his neutrality in public, who can believe he didn’t hurl his remote at the television when CNN declared Donald Trump the victor, John Ivison writes.
AP Photo/Chris O'MearaThough Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has been assiduous in his neutrality in public, who can believe he didn’t hurl his remote at the television when CNN declared Donald Trump the victor, John Ivison writes.
 

What will Donald Trump’s shock victory mean for Canada, apart from crashing the Immigration department’s website?

The simple answer is nobody knows — certainly nobody in the ballroom of Ottawa’s Chateau Laurier, where the U.S. embassy hosted an election night soiree attended by cabinet ministers, diplomats and senior bureaucrats.

A combination of wishful thinking and the received wisdom that a Trump presidency was inconceivable has left the Canadian government scrambling to respond to this new reality.

The Trudeau Liberals were well positioned to welcome a Hillary Clinton administration and had crafted plans to push areas of shared concern — climate change, the “values” agenda and the border.

One of the few references to Canada in the Clinton platform talks about modernizing North American energy infrastructure and creating a climate change “compact” with the U.S.’s NAFTA partners.

But plans to dovetail Canadian and American climate-change policy are in tatters now that the president-elect is a man who intends to boost the coal industry and pull out of the Paris Agreement.

Justin Trudeau scaled new heights of mutual reverence in his relationship with Barack Obama. But though the prime minister has been assiduous in his neutrality in public, who can believe he didn’t hurl his remote at the television when CNN declared Trump the victor?

The Canada-U.S. relationship has worked best when it has moved in tandem. Yet on climate change, Canada is about to introduce a carbon tax while the United States seems destined to shift in the opposite direction. The divergence in policy could make this country a high-cost place to do business compared to America, particularly given Trump’s promise to reduce corporate income tax rates.

Canadian government officials said it has only been in the last few days that the prospect of President Trump has been seriously considered in Ottawa from a policy point of view. The government can be forgiven for having no contingency plan for Trump — how do you plan a response to populist hot air and the greatest upset in American political history?

Yet Ottawa now has to fashion a game-plan to deal with a president-elect who has pledged to rip up the North American Free Trade Agreement.

The best guess among Canadian government insiders is that the president could unilaterally withdraw from NAFTA, but to do so would wrap the administration up in litigation for years to come, as American companies moved to protect zero-per-cent tariffs on imports from Mexico and Canada.

Ottawa now has to fashion a game-plan to deal with a president-elect who has pledged to rip up NAFTA

But Trump is like a bumblebee — he doesn’t look like he should be able to fly, but he has proven he can defy political gravity. The confidence that Trump cannot and will not blow up NAFTA is starting to look misplaced.

Democrats are generally less keen on free trade, but Trump has built a campaign around protectionist sentiment. There can be little doubt that Buy America legislation and other discriminatory trade measures that penalize Canadian companies will be in the offing.

Officials suggest that the best prospect for Canada is to keep its collective head down and wait for Trump to discover that governing is a very different proposition to campaigning. There are opportunities for cooperation, primarily on the energy file. Trudeau supported the Keystone XL pipeline and a Trump presidency creates the prospect that project can be resurrected.

But there will clearly be many irritants.

Trump has promised to get tough on America’s NATO allies for not paying their way. Even Obama was galled enough by Canada’s relatively meagre contribution to NATO — 23rd of 28 countries in percentage terms — to raise it in the House of Commons when he visited earlier this year. “The world needs more Canada. NATO needs more Canada,” he said, none too subtly.

Trump will be a more hawkish commander-in-chief than his predecessor and will be less understanding of Canada’s habit of disappearing to the washroom when the NATO bill is delivered. He has even promised to withhold America’s military support if partner countries do not meet their defence-spending targets.

The new president-elect has not been kind to Canada in this election campaign — making disparaging comments about this country’s healthcare system and the need for “extreme vetting” of Muslims from countries like Syria, from which Canada has received 30,000 refugees.

Yet the reality is Canada remains the top export destination for 35 states. The hope must be that Trump is not as daft as he often sounds.

The U.S. ambassador in Ottawa, Bruce Heyman, said the election won’t change the fact that Canada and America will remain “the strongest of allies … the deepest of friends.”

Canada wakes to a remarkable, even inexplicable, populist victory by Trump.

Whatever the reservations north of the border, Canadians are obliged to have what Abraham Lincoln called “the patient confidence in the ultimate justice of the people.” There simply is no alternative.

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U.S. election: Republicans retain House, Senate under Trump

Voters wanted change atop ticket, but incumbents like McCain, Grassley, Schumer return

The Associated Press Posted: Nov 08, 2016 7:30 PM ET Last Updated: Nov 09, 2016 7:10 AM ET

Republicans retained their lock on the U.S. House of Representatives for two more years in comfortable fashion and maintained an edge in the Senate, where they will serve under president-elect Donald Trump.

Democrats, as well as some Republicans, had expected Trump's controversial campaign would hurt some Republican congressional candidates and even flip some reliably red states in the presidential race, but that wasn't the case.

 

Senate

Republicans this year were defending 24 seats; the Democrats, 10. The Democrats needed to gain five seats to take an outright majority and didn't get there. There was little flipping of seats overall.

Republicans entered the election with 54 seats, Democrats with 44, and independents with two.

By early Wednesday, Republicans were on track to end up with at least 52 seats. The party lost in Illinois, where Mark Kirke was unseated by Tammy Duckworth, who has served in the House.

New Hampshire, where Kelly Ayotte held the GOP Senate seat, remained too close to call in the early morning hours Wednesday as she battled Maggie Hassan. Even if Democrats eked out a win there, it would not make a difference.

Louisiana requires a candidate to win with 50 per cent. Democrat Foster Campbell and John Kennedy will contest a runoff in December, with the Republican favoured to win.

Democrats had been nearly certain of retaking control but saw their hopes fizzle as endangered GOP incumbents won in Missouri, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and even Democrat-friendly Wisconsin.

GOP-held New Hampshire remained too close to call in the early morning hours Wednesday, but even if Democrats eked out a win there, it would not make a difference.

Kentucky's Mitch McConnell, who will remain as Senate majority leader, issued a statement congratulating the president-elect.

"After eight years of the Obama administration, the American people have chosen a new direction for our nation. president-elect Trump has a significant opportunity to bring our nation together," McConnell said.

"It is my hope and intent that we succeed in the years ahead by working together with our colleagues across the aisle to strengthen our national and economic security."

Senators serve six-year terms. A third of the Senate is up for re-election every two years. Procedural rules in the Senate require 60 votes to advance major initiatives.

Should incumbents John McCain and Chuck Grassley serve another full term, they will be 86 and 89 years of age, respectively.

In New York, Senator Chuck Schumer, the Democrats' leader-in-waiting for a new Congress, easily won re-election. But the results elsewhere meant he will be leading a Senate minority when he replaces Nevada's Harry Reid in the leader's role.

Catherine Cortez Masto is projected to hold Reid's seat, which would make her the first Latina senator.

Some of the key Senate races on election day were:

  • Arizona Republican Senator John McCain, 80, held off a challenge from Democratic Representative Ann Kirkpatrick, 66. McCain, a Vietnam War hero and his party's presidential nominee in 2008, has had some public differences with Trump.

 

  • Florida Republican Marco Rubio, who failed to win his party's presidential nomination, bested Democratic Representative Patrick Murphy, 43. Rubio, 45, had been expected to enter the private sector after losing Florida's Republican primary to Trump, but he changed his mind after party leaders recruited him.

 

  • Indiana Democrat Evan Bayh, 60, failed to recapture the Senate seat he abandoned in 2010. Republican Representative Todd Young, 44, will replace Republican Senator Dan Coats, who is retiring.

 

  • Illinois Democratic Representative Tammy Duckworth ousted Republican Senator Mark Kirk. The 57-year-old incumbent suffered a stroke that sidelined him for much of 2012 and was considered one of the most vulnerable Republicans seeking re-election this year. Duckworth, 48, is a double-amputee Iraq War veteran.

Marco Rubio, Republican senator from Florida and former presidential hopeful, defeated Democratic opponent Patrick Murphy. (Jorge Cabrera/Reuters)

 

  • Missouri Republican Senator Roy Blunt, 66, defeated Democrat Jason Kander, 35, a veteran of the Afghanistan war and Missouri's secretary of state.

 

 

  • North Carolina Republican Senator Richard Burr, 60, was re-elected. He defeated Democrat Deborah Ross, 53, a former state legislator.

 

  • Ohio Republican Rob Portman, 60, defeated Democratic challenger Ted Strickland, 75, a former governor. Portman kept Trump at a distance leading up to Tuesday's election. He didn't campaign with the nominee and withdrew his endorsement when a 2005 tape of Trump making lewd comments about kissing and groping women surfaced last month.

Sen.-elect Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., smiles as she celebrates her win over incumbent Sen. Mark Kirk Tuesday night in Chicago. (Charles Rex Arbogast/The Associated Press)

 

  • Pennsylvania Republican Senator Patrick Toomey, 54, beat Democrat Katie McGinty, 53. Toomey had refused to take a position on Trump.

 

  • Wisconsin Republican Ron Johnson, 61, beat Democrat Russ Feingold, 63, in a rematch of the 2010 Senate race.

House of Representatives

All 435 seats were up for grabs.

Republicans, who have held the House since 2011, went into the elections holding 246 seats to the Democrats' 186. There were three vacancies. By Wednesday morning, Republicans were on pace for at least 236  — guaranteeing control — and few of their incumbents had lost.

They were leading in four other races. The Democrats had 191 in their column and were leading in four.

Members of the House serve two-year terms and all are up for re-election every two years. To advance most bills in the House, 218 votes or more are needed.

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U.S. election results driven by simmering discontent of voters: Lessons from the exit polls

 
‎Yesterday, ‎November ‎8, ‎2016, ‏‎11:54:49 PM | Nancy Benac And Emily Swanson, The Associated Press

WASHINGTON — Americans emphatically declared their anger at government and their desire for change Tuesday as they decided between two presidential candidates who failed to generate much excitement.

Exit polls recorded the simmering discontent of the American electorate.

Four in 10 voters said they were hungry for change, and those voters overwhelmingly favoured Republican Donald Trump. Smaller voting blocs who were seeking a candidate with good judgment, experience or who cared about them favoured Hillary Clinton.

Nearly 7 in 10 voters said they were unhappy with the way the government is working, including a quarter who said they were outright angry, according to preliminary results of exit polls conducted for The Associated Press and television networks by Edison Research.

Three-fourths of those angry voters backed Trump.

Six in 10 voters said the country is on the wrong track.

 

Other findings from the exit poll:

WORKING-CLASS WHITES vs. CLINTON COALITION

Trump dominated among white voters, especially non-college-educated men; Clinton’s coalition was made up of women, minorities and young people.

Trump, who once famously declared that he loved the uneducated, got plenty of love back from white voters who never graduated from college: He got 7 in 10 votes from non-college-educated white men and 6 in 10 votes from non-college-educated white women.

The advantage Trump had among whites without a college degree compared with whites who graduated from college was the largest seen in exit polls for a Republican since the surveys started in 1972.

Clinton, meanwhile, got the support of less than a quarter of white men without a college degree; Barack Obama, by contrast, drew about a third of their votes four years ago.

TIMES TWO

What kind of impact did third-party candidates Gary Johnson and Jill Stein have on the race? They siphoned more votes from Clinton than from Trump.

A quarter of Johnson and Stein voters said they would have backed Clinton if they had to pick between the two major-party candidates. About 15 per cent would have backed Trump.

RACIAL SPLIT

Even with his tough talk about Mexican immigrants, Trump held on to roughly the same share of Hispanic voters as Romney had claimed four years ago. Likewise, he was drawing about the same levels of support from black voters as Romney won.

The Republican was drawing about a quarter of Hispanic voters and about less than 1 in 10 black voters.

TO BE HONEST …

Neither Trump nor Clinton gets bragging rights when it comes to honesty.

About 6 out of 10 voters said they don’t view Clinton as honest and about the same share felt the same way about Trump.

THE GENDER GAP

It was the working-class white men backing Trump who helped to produce a gender gap with a capital “G” for Clinton.

Tuesday’s election was on track to produce the largest gender gaps since the exit poll began: The gender gap for Clinton — the difference between the number of men who voted for her and the number of women who voted for her — hit 13 percentage points.

Clinton’s support among women was roughly even with the support that women gave Obama in 2008 and 2012.

MILLENNIALS VS. ELDERS

Clinton managed to hang on to the millennials who were such a big part of Obama’s winning coalition.

Ty Wright/Getty ImagesDonald Trump got 7 in 10 votes from non-college-educated white men and 6 in 10 votes from non-college-educated white women.

PESSIMISM AND ANGER

There were grim strains woven into voter sentiments as they cast their ballots.

Nearly 7 in 10 voters said they were unhappy with the way the government is working, including a quarter who were outright angry.

HOLDING THEIR NOSES

Americans held their noses as they picked between Clinton and Trump: More than half of voters cast their ballots with reservations about their candidate or because they disliked the others running.

That was true both for those backing Clinton and those supporting Trump, the exit polls showed

After a long, hard-fought campaign, just 4 out of 10 voters strongly favoured their candidate.

WOMEN’S ISSUES VS. EMAIL ISSUES

After all of the sound and fury over Trump’s treatment of women, it turned out the issue bothered half of all voters a lot — and women were more concerned about it than men.

About 6 in 10 women were bothered a lot, compared to about 4 in 10 men, the exit poll found.

———

The survey was conducted for The Associated Press and television networks by Edison Research with 23,583 voters as they left their polling places at 350 randomly selected sites throughout the United States supplemented by 4,404 telephone interviews with mail, early and absentee voters. The results among all those voting have a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2 percentage points.

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3 hours ago, J.O. said:

This is all I will say on the subject. Let's be honest, they didn't exactly have an easy choice. Liar vs. Liar is a pretty accurate way to frame it. They made their choice but were deeply divided in doing so. They don't need our anger and disbelief. They need us to be Canadian, which means being positive and offering encouragement; reminding them of the many, many good things about their nation and above all, respecting that it was their choice to make, just as it is ours when we go to the polls.

Anger, disbelief, offering encouragement and respecting their right to make a choice are not mutually exclusive.  At the heart all government is corrupt and it's good to kick out the old bums every eight years or so.  Trump will likely be just a corrupt but at least the old corrupt system gets flushed and it might take a while for the new one to spool up - a reset of sorts.  A new broom sweeps clean.

Edited by seeker
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Okay, one more. This woman speaks to the reasons for the outcome very well.

 

Edited by J.O.
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What a wonderful example of grace; you are an honourable man Deicer!

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Thank you Defcon!

We all have opinions, however I think it is the rare person who doesn't actually want what is best overall.

Let's raise one for all of us who can discuss, disagree, but not fight!

Cheers to you...

:b:

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I was watching CNN this morning before the market open.  The predictions about a massive hit to the market were flying fast and furious.  At the close the DOW is up 1.5% - odd, no further comments through the day.

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8 hours ago, seeker said:

I was watching CNN this morning before the market open.  The predictions about a massive hit to the market were flying fast and furious.  At the close the DOW is up 1.5% - odd, no further comments through the day.

The future and overseas markets dipped about 5% or so last night, likely can be attributed to a Brexit-ish swoon, but the dynamics here are more complicated, so todays uptick should be no more shocking, particularly in light of the multi-day losing streak prior during Trump's Comey-bump in the polls. There's still a lot of money sloshing around looking for a home, no return in safe havens. Some will see opportunity if Trump manages to regenerate the energy sector (ignoring environmental concerns if one cares at all), and re-deregulates markets (worked last time, didn't it?).

One howling irony is listening to investors supposedly welcome new infrastructure spending - Obama tried repeatedly to get that thru' the Congress, to no avail (too much deficit spending they claimed), and he was not adding a huge tax cut. Lying in Wonderland.

Anyway, in spite of the commentariat's babbling about "tanking" or "plunging" markets, real or imagined, some perspective: single-day single-digit drops in price, on a small fraction of total equities that actually trade, warrant far less breathless bloviating. Equally, it's just as premature to grant small rises any great import. If nothing else, a Trump administration is an uncertain proposition right now. We'll get a sense of the economics due time.

I don't want to understate the outstanding risks, tho'. There are more unpleasant pathways ahead of us than good ones. I'm looking for some reassuring signs, in vain so far, but of course it's very early days. The current normalizing fluff everybody's putting out is worth nothing. Trump will remain the person he always was, we'll just have to wait to see how he plays this when the rubber hits the road.

Hoping for the best, IFG :b:

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In the meantime..................

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Heard this earlier...

This election is historic because it is the first time in American history that a white billionaire will be moving into public housing being vacated by a black family.

:P

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