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deicer

Trump 2.0 Continues

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This has nothing to do with Lefties or Righties, this is about changing the system of government in the U.S.

If Trump/Pence is allowed to override the law and regulations in place, isn't that akin to putting a Dictatorship in place?

This is what the people of Canada voted against by getting rid of Harper.

Careful what you wish for, you just might get it.....

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49 minutes ago, deicer said:

This has nothing to do with Lefties or Righties, this is about changing the system of government in the U.S.

If Trump/Pence is allowed to override the law and regulations in place, isn't that akin to putting a Dictatorship in place?

This is what the people of Canada voted against by getting rid of Harper.

Careful what you wish for, you just might get it.....

didn't Obama and past Presidents do exactly that with use of Veto power? 

Summary of Bills Vetoed, 1789-present

Additional information about veto power and procedure can be found on the Vetoes page.

President (Years) Coinciding Congresses Vetoes
Regular Pocket Total Overridden
Barack H. Obama (2009-present) 114-111 12  12 
George W. Bush (2001-2009) 110-107 12  12 
William J. Clinton (1993-2001) 106-103 36  37 
George H. W. Bush (1989-1993) 1 102-101 29  15  44 
Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) 2 100-97 39  39  78 
Jimmy Carter (1977-1981) 96-95 13  18  31 

http://www.senate.gov/reference/Legislation/Vetoes/vetoCounts.htm

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Hi Malcolm,

Re, " didn't Obama and past Presidents do exactly that with use of Veto power?  "

I may be misreading - you're saying that the Constitutional provision for and use of the presidential veto is the same as a dictatorship?

First of all, we can see the reducing use of presidential vetoes in your list, so U.S. "presidential dictatorship is reducing"? Obama has used the least number of presidential vetoes of all presidents, (Roosevelt used the veto 635 times over 12 years), so was FDR "the greatest dictator, and Obama the least"?  :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sorry to be unclear Don, I was replying to " If Trump/Pence is allowed to override the law and regulations in place, isn't that akin to putting a Dictatorship in place? " and attempting to show the only way that could happen would be use of his Veto Power which was well used by past Presidents. So to sum it up, not exactly a big threat with the various checks and balances in place.  

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Based on recent headlines from Toronto we have some possible trouble to worry about here in Canada,http://globalnews.ca/news/3065946/toronto-staff-remove-signs-urging-white-people-to-mobilize-against-multiculturalism/?utm_source=ShawConnect&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014, I can only hope these nutbars are a small minority.  Whoever issued these posters is evidently not aware that our country has always been multicultural since inception. 

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Hi Malcolm;

Yes, I know you were referring to the "dictatorship" observation, thanks.

One can't "veto" existing laws and regulations of course, but I believe I know what deicer was saying - that Trump is riding off in all directions, staffing with some people who want to change the nature and character of the U.S. government and the Presidency.

Trump's selection for Chief of Staff, Rience Priebus, a newbie, has no experience in government, knows no one on the other side, and is a potential embarrassment for the Republicans; he will also be Bantha fodder for senior counsel, Stephen Bannon.

We are seeing the realities of a blend of inexperience and wilful ignorance of the processes of government.

More disconcerting, we are seeing a private, corporate view of democratic principles, those processes (of democracy) that bring precious stability. At present, from what is visible so far, I fear for long-term political stability in the United States.

If all these concerns are just "lefties twisting", then let us wait. We will see what the first hundred days brings. My bet is that it will be the Republicans themselves who will be twisting, and that will not be a thing to casually enjoy or celebrate.

As deicer correctly observes, this most certainly is not about the trivialities of "lefties vs. righties".

Re racial and gender nutbars in Canada, "Trump" has leaked across the border. The concern is real, and so is the courageous response. It's who we are.

The President-elect of the United States has legitimized and emboldened racial and gender hatred, and has instilled a deepening fear in citizens.

What Trump is unleashing will take the country back to Kent State, to Watts, to Chicago and what some of us here saw and remember from the sixties in terms of 'the underground', with the accompanying violence and lock-down of civil rights.

As you say, it's not who Canadians are, so attempts to create such artificial divisions likely won't get traction. It depends upon what happens in the United States though.

I hope that we will not be called upon as a country to defend that which is presently wonderfully invisible to us - our character.

Edited by Don Hudson

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Don: You say "what Trump is unleashing etc", the scary part is that that behavior was lurking so close under the skin of some Americans.  Mind you I suspect we are hearing only from the vocal, radical minority but they do appear, at least from the news reports , to have large numbers. Like any other disease there had to be a breeding ground and I suspect that is the "real" problem.

On the other hand we continue to see "so called" Democrats taking to the streets to protest the results of an election(as allowed for under US Laws) they didn't like.  The protests do remind me of the ones against the US war against Vietnam but not as peaceful or indeed morally sound. 

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FWIW, from last night's Colbert show:

Colbert then asked Sanders two very important questions: "What is the best case scenario you see going forward.. [and] the worst case scenario" now that Trump is the president-elect. 

"The best case scenario is that Trump is not an ideologue," Sanders told the host. "His views are all over the place."

Because of which, Sanders believes Trump may actually listen to smart people advising him and do the right thing. 

"What's the worst case scenario," Colbert then asked, warning Sanders to "keep it light."

"The worst case, if not Trump himself, people around Trump are saying, hmm, we've got the House, the Senate... the White House.. the Supreme Court, we're going to change the rules of the game so we don't [ever] lose anymore," Sanders explained.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krD4hdGvGHM

Edited by bluemic

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Hi Malcolm;

There has always been an undercurrent of radical neoreactionary, (formally called, "Dark Enlightenment"), beliefs including deep suspicions of government; it's in their DNA. There exists an abiding mistrust and even hatred of Thomas Jefferson as much as there is deep hatred against current targets of prejudice.

Let's not characterize the sixties as just "Vietnam protests". The sixties was a time of all-out racial war, and a war against government at the same time, the sources of which were bubbling, as you say, just below the surface.

Waco and other extremist religious, anti-government, "occupations" are more recent examples of righties twisting reality into conspiracies. Until now, the sixties was the most visible expression of a fundamental hatred of both people and institutions. Indeed, "unleashed" is the word and the pent-up pressures are going to be beyond both the Republican's and the President's ability to limit.

I think it won't be just Democrats "twisting" and taking to the streets.

Hi bluemic;

I completely agree with Sanders. Obama recognized and stated yesterday, (Nov 14), that Trump is not an ideologue. But he did continue to observe that the senior counsel that Trump has chosen as his #2 man is most certainly an ideologue.

We may see by their effluent on the web: it is the goal of the Alt-right to implement "regime change" at home. Perhaps Donald Trump is their chance as their unwitting vehicle? We'll have to wait and see.

How successful this movement may be depends upon how divisive the two traditional governing parties choose to be after January 20th, 2017. They may have to speak with one voice, as per earlier observations by Lichtman and others.

 

Edited by Don Hudson

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4 hours ago, deicer said:

Well, the Trump supporters are right, he is better organised than I thought

Trump has a lot of experience in running large companies.  The White House is not much different.

It seems that he has demanded something from the people who thought that they had certain jobs locked in and Trump took a look and wanted something else from them, like loyalty. He knows that the right people for these jobs are a dime-a-dozen and can be replaced at anytime.  The rest are on notice to not start demanding things that Trump may not want to give.

Getting rid of Christie is likely a good move.

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5 hours ago, Fido said:

Getting rid of Christie is likely a good move.

It's a great start. Now if he'd punt Giuliani he'd really be getting somewhere. 

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Normalizing the Deviance...
 

Quote

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/16/ex-george-w-bush-counselor-warns-conservatives-to-stay-away-from-donald-trump-administration-filled-with-unquestioning-loyalty/

Wednesday, Nov 16, 2016 05:56 AM PST

Ex-George W. Bush counselor warns conservatives to stay away from Donald Trump administration filled with “unquestioning loyalty”

Another Republican comes forward to deliver a scathing attack of the Trump administration's

Ex-George W. Bush counselor warns conservatives to stay away from Donald Trump administration filled with "unquestioning loyalty"
President-elect Donald Trump speaks during his meeting with President Barack Obama in the Oval Office of the White House in Washington, Thursday, Nov. 10, 2016.(Credit: AP)

Eliot A. Cohen, a military historian who served as counselor of the State Department under President George W. Bush from 2007 to 2009, is warning fellow conservatives to stay away from the Trump administration.

“I am a national security Never-Trumper who, after the election, made the case that young conservatives should volunteer to serve in the new administration, warily, their undated letters of resignation ready,” Cohen wrote in an editorial for The Washington Post on Tuesday night. “That advice, I have concluded, was wrong.”

Cohen went on to describe how one of his conservative friends “in Trumpworld” asked him to provide a list of names from the Republican foreign policy establishment who had not formally joined the Never Trump movement and might be willing to serve under President Trump. After complying with the request, Cohen says that the friend responded in an email “seething with anger directed at those of us who had opposed Donald Trump — even those who stood ready to help steer good people to an administration that understandably wanted nothing to do with the likes of me, someone who had been out front in opposing Trump since the beginning.”

Although Cohen has since patched things up with his friend and characterized the email exchange as “a momentary eruption of temper,” he also describes the exchange as a “tipping point” when it comes to his feelings about conservatives working in the Trump administration.

“The tenor of the Trump team, from everything I see, read and hear, is such that, for a garden-variety Republican policy specialist, service in the early phase of the administration would carry a high risk of compromising one’s integrity and reputation,” Cohen declared, going on to criticizing Trump for “surrounding himself with mediocrities whose chief qualification seems to be unquestioning loyalty.”
VideoPresident Obama Blasts Republicans

From Cohen’s perspective, the real danger for Republicans lies not merely in Trump’s actual behavior, but in how his fellow Republicans have been responding to it.

“In the best of times, government service carries with it the danger of compromising your principles,” Cohen writes. “Here, though, we may be in for something much worse. The canary in the coal mine was not merely the selection of Stephen K. Bannon for the job previously filled by John Podesta and Karl Rove, that of counselor to the president and chief strategist. Rather, the warning signs came from the Republican leaders excusing and normalizing this sinister character — and those who then justified the normalizers.”

Cohen’s editorial may not come as a surprise to political observers who have been paying attention in the week since Trump’s upset election over Hillary Clinton. On Tuesday, Cohen issued a tweet describing hostility with members of the Trump transition team that may have been referring to the anonymous friend mentioned in his piece for The Washington Post.

 

 

Edited by Don Hudson

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If no one is twisting along with the lefties, it is time to come out of your Funk and Illusion.

This guy is certifiable.

Quote

 

the Guardian

Donald Trump renews war with media as transition chaos continues

Trump takes US presidency into uncharted waters with series of tweets attacking the New York Times, hours after ducking reporters to visit restaurant.

Donald Trump appeared to allude to his reality TV show The Apprentice as he denied reports that his transition process is in turmoil.

David Smith in Washington

Wednesday 16 November 2016 19.46 GMT
Last modified on Wednesday 16 November 2016 22.00 GMT

Donald Trump has renewed his fight with the American media, criticizing the New York Times, ducking reporters to visit a restaurant and turning to Twitter as a means of direct communication.

The US president-elect even appeared to allude to his reality TV show The Apprentice as he denied reports that his transition process is in turmoil and plagued by infighting.

Trump waged an unprecedented one-man war against the media during his election campaign, banning some organisations from his rallies and regularly inciting his supporters to boo and jeer reporters. He used Twitter, on which he has more than 15 million followers, to berate his critics and throw out often incendiary statements.

Not even his elevated status as the next leader of the free world appears to have changed his habits. Whereas Barack Obama gave his first press conference three days after his election in 2008, Trump is yet to do so, instead giving a primetime TV interview and unleashing a barrage of tweets, yet again taking the US presidency into uncharted waters.

“Very organized process taking place as I decide on Cabinet and many other positions,” he posted on Twitter late on Tuesday. “I am the only one who knows who the finalists are!”

His reference to “the finalists” seemed to deliberately evoke The Apprentice, in which contestants battled each other for a chance to work at his business and he told those who fell short: “You’re fired!”

The Twitter storm resumed early on Wednesday morning when he denied media reports that his three adult children – Don Jr, Eric and Ivanka – would be receiving security clearances, raising potential conflicts of interest. “I am not trying to get ‘top level security clearance’ for my children. This was a typically false news story.”

And then he singled out the New York Times, which during the campaign revealed how he may have avoided paying taxes for 18 years and which endorsed Hillary Clinton for president. This week the paper has reported on disarray in the transition and said that, while the presidents of Egypt and Israel got through to Trump quickly by phone, UK prime minister Theresa May had to wait 24 hours.

“The failing @nytimes story is so totally wrong on transition,” Trump tweeted. “It is going so smoothly. Also, I have spoken to many foreign leaders.”

He added: “I have recieved [sic] and taken calls from many foreign leaders despite what the failing @nytimes said. Russia, U.K., China, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and more. I am always available to them. @nytimes is just upset that they looked like fools in their coverage of me.”

His decision to mention Russia first will not have escaped critics of Trump’s apparent admiration for president Vladimir Putin. The New York Times pointed out that it had reported that Trump had taken calls from the leaders of Egypt, Israel, Russia and Britain, but said they had been “conducted haphazardly” and without the state department guidance that is typical for such conversations.

Trump’s shoot-from-the-hip style was met with criticism. David Frum, a former speechwriter for George W Bush, tweeted: “It will never stop being insane that the president-elect of the United States foams at his critics on Twitter.”

It is fine to publish a list of foreign leaders who called to congratulate him, Frum added: “But to toss names out there in a Twitter rage to answer a perceived media slight?! When does President Trump compromise an important secret?”

Further concerns were raised about Trump’s handling of the media when he broke with protocol on Tuesday night, going out to dinner at a steakhouse after his transition team had told journalists he would not be out in public the rest of the day. Trump reportedly received a standing ovation and cheers on arriving at 21 Club in midtown Manhattan.

The White House Correspondents’ Association said it was “unacceptable” that Trump was traveling without a regular pool of journalists to inform the public of his whereabouts. A protective pool of journalists is supposed to join the president or president-elect’s motorcade to record their whereabouts and be on hand in the event of breaking news.

The Trump team has said it plans to respect the traditions of press access at the White House. Jeff Mason, president of the White House Correspondents Association, insisted: “The time to act on that promise is now. Pool reporters are in place in New York to cover the president-elect as he assembles his new administration. It is critical that they be allowed to do their jobs.”

On Wednesday, Jason Miller, a spokesperson for Trump, admitted that there was room for improvement. “Last night probably was an example where there could have been a little bit better communication,” he told reporters. “But again, our goal going forward is to get you guys the best information in a timely fashion.

“But I would also say – would also stand up for the president-elect and say that, for some in the media, unless they’re actually sitting at the table, seeing if he’s getting the chicken or the fish, that they will never be happy. And there always needs to be some kind of balance for respecting some degree of privacy. But to your initial point, we do think that there will be improved communication and our goal is to make sure that something like last night doesn’t happen again.”

Asked when the billionaire businessman will do a press conference, Kellyanne Conway, his campaign manager, replied: “Shortly, I would say. Some time soon. But obviously he’s meeting with – talking to heads of state and possible members of his cabinet and senior team, filling out his senior leadership team. A lot of activity going on upstairs.”

Former House speaker Newt Gingrich said the media would have to adapt to Trump’s “hands-on CEO” style. “It probably confuses the traditional political press because they apply traditional standards and you can’t do that with Trump,” he told Fox News.

Gingrich added that he was “100%” sure he did not want a cabinet post as transition talks continued at Trump Tower, where the tycoon’s second wife, Marla Maples, was spotted on Tuesday afternoon.

The departure of former US representative Mike Rogers as a national security adviser followed the removal of New Jersey governor Chris Christie as head of Trump’s transition team in favour of Vice-President-elect Mike Pence, who did not sign a memorandum of understanding with Barack Obama’s White House until Tuesday night. The appointment of Steve Bannon, a media executive accused of far-right ties, and the role of Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner have fuelled discontent. On Wednesday Bernie Sanders, the leftwing Democrat who run against Hillary Clinton in the 2016 Democratic primary, called the appointment of Bannon “totally unacceptable”.

“In a democratic society we can disagree all we want over issues, but racism and bigotry cannot be part of any public policy,” Sanders aid. “The appointment of Mr Bannon by Mr Trump must be rescinded.”

Former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani appears to be haggling for the prize job of secretary of state. But the transition team is reviewing Giuliani’s paid consulting work for foreign governments including Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela, the Associated Press reported.

He is also under scrutiny over speeches he made on behalf of the Mujahideen-e Khalq, a fringe Iranian dissident group. The group, which operates in exile, was designated a foreign terrorist organization by the US state department in 1997 for its long and bloody history, including its involvement in the killing of Americans in Iran in the 1970s. Speaking fees paid by several MEK front groups to Giuliani and other politicians potentially broke laws on Americans receiving money from designated terrorist organisations.

Another visitor to Trump Tower on Wednesday was current New York mayor Bill de Blasio, a Democrat. He said he wanted to give Trump a feel of concerns everyone is feeling about his presidency. “I talked to him about concerns of potential deportations, I gave him the perspective of the NYPD,” De Blasio said, describing New York “the ultimate city of immigrants.”

There are more than 900 Muslim members of the NYPD, the mayor said, and citizens rely on their willingness to protect the city. “I let him know that so many New Yorkers were fearful and that more had to be done to show that this country can heal, that people be respected.”

De Blasio added: “Even though I have very real differences with the president-elect, he is a New Yorker, I do think he loves this city.”

 

 

Edited by Don Hudson

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Don, the press has never liked him and it appears that they are looking to report anything and everything slanted to the darkside.  I think Trump is glorying in rubbing their noses in "it". But since we have no other course, I suggest we sit back and see what happens. In the mean time "the press" will no doubt continue to stir the pot and those easily swayed / impressed by the stories will continue to take to the streets. Sure glad I live north of the 49th.

  • Like 2

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Okay, okay, I'll cease and desist :P  and give everyone a break or take me off their ignore list.

Do I get a last say?...the guy is nuts and dangerous and isn't Presidential material.

He is corrupt, unethical, secretive, petty,  vindictive, a deeply divisive force in a country, and a world, both of which now badly need reassurance, and in my view he is using the Presidency to line his pockets.

In my view, Donald Trump is as unAmerican as it is possible to be.

What goes around comes around, (as it already has for Chris Christie). Donald Trump may ultimately be the target of the chant aimed at Hillary with which he himself whipped up the crowds.

If you want to hobble someone or some country, mess with it's leaders and its peoples' mind and its principles. Most people swallow easily and quickly because they themselves want normalcy, at almost any cost so long as it isn't disrupting their world view.

The Presidency itself can't survive what he is doing and going to do. He's shown that he's not going to change. He'll only get worse once in office. What's unfolding may make strange bedfellows in both Houses...

No matter what else is in store for the American people and their problems, the world is going to be poorer place because of him and the Republican agenda. I don't think Americans really understood what they voted for.

It's what deep hatred and division does...they always brings more than one bargains for.

Ted Cruz for Attorney General?! Wow. And Flynn for Secretary of Defence? - didn't the Republicans say Hillary was hawkish? All we need is Sarah Palin as Secretary of the Interior. She'll make James Watt look like a Greenpeace volunteer.

I really hope I have to eat my words. Don't think I'll have to.

Ciao

Edited by Don Hudson

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I notice the main stream media is not showing any more SNL skits, perhaps we will get some more professionalism back into journalists and get some reporting rather than op-ed pieces all the time.

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1 hour ago, mo32a said:

I notice the main stream media is not showing any more SNL skits, perhaps we will get some more professionalism back into journalists and get some reporting rather than op-ed pieces all the time.

I think that is highly unlikely.

Cartoon news has taken over.

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It turns out Trump did not seek security clearances for his kids as reported, nor is there any chaos in the organization; all that is just pretend & wishful thinking by the Left wing media as they make up their news on the fly.

 

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Hi DEFCON;

Yes, I saw that - I had modified my last post because of the change.

Jaydee, without going into something lengthy, I agree with Hannity's point regarding emotional maturity and resiliency. By the time a young person is in the work world or in university, they need to stand on their own. Tears of disappointment over loss are natural, but one should very quickly get on with it. Emotional maturity means having inner strength to carry on rewardless. It also means having good crap detectors and speaking up when the situation calls for it. One can't do that and cry at the same time.

Edited by Don Hudson
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