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National Disgrace


Dropzone
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From your headline...hHHHmmmmm let me see..so many to choose from...Navy? Air Force? Army? Treatment of seniors vs refugees, a guy with pancreatic cancer being told his disease doesn't qualify for surgery, the GTAA, our historic sites, flt time duty regulations, the Ontario gov't and its fiscal mismanagement, the scandal of Ontario hydro and its effect on rural Ontarians....I'm getting tired..

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  • 2 weeks later...

Perhaps time to bring our Coast Guard and Navy under one umbrella and fully fund the new maritime force so it is capable of protecting our shores (east, west and north) from foreign incursion and at the same time full fill the mandate of the Coast Guard. Here is a link to article on the subject The Canadian Navy and the Canadian Coast Guard: Cooperating Sea Services or Co-existing Federal Fleets : http://cdfai.org.previewmysite.com/PDF/The Canadian Navy and Coast Guard.pdf

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Bleeding heart, left wing, feminist, welfare leeches won't care about the military until the enemy is at the border and even then they'd probably want the military to help the hoards carry their stuff and hand out Canadian passports rather than provide any defense.

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Sad state of affairs for shipyards, at least on the Great Lakes...all have gone out of business with CSL (our former Pms co.) and Algoma having all their new builds built in China.

And we don't create those skill sets overnight...huge lead times for construction.

No solution for the Navies plight for years unless we buy off the shelf from NATO partners.

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Wanted in Iraq: More Canadian intelligence, less ball hockey

Tue Oct 11, 2016 - Ottawa Citizen
by David Pugliese

Canada’s much-vaunted surveillance planes operating over Iraq were so limited in the information they could collect and share with allies, Canadian military personnel planning CF-18 attacks had to rely on the U.S. for data, according to documents obtained by the Ottawa Citizen.

The briefing, produced last year on lessons learned from operations in Iraq in 2014, also pointed out efforts to set up ball hockey facilities and a Tim Hortons for personnel at a base in Kuwait should take a back seat to getting key components of the mission in place.

Canada initially contributed special forces, Aurora surveillance aircraft, a refuelling plane and CF-18 fighter jets to the international coalition battling Islamic extremists.

The Liberal government withdrew the jets, but expanded the number of special forces and kept the refuelling planes and Auroras.

Canadian military officers have claimed from the beginning of the mission the upgraded CP-140 Auroras are among the most advanced surveillance aircraft in the world.

But the “lessons learned” document, obtained through the Access to Information law, tells a different story.

“The CP140 deployed without the organic capability to share their data with coalition partners,” it notes.

In addition, the software needed to process some CP-140 surveillance data was not available and the air crews needed “greater experience operating over land.”

The Aurora is primarily a maritime surveillance plane, but the upgrades allow it to collect data on ground targets.

The problems didn’t stop with the Auroras. There were concerns about the overall lack of ability to share information Canada collected from various sources with its allies. In addition, the Canadian Forces had problems accessing coalition intelligence data without having to go through a U.S. military intermediary.

Gathering information about targets the CF-18s were to attack proved difficult. Problems with the planes’ targeting pods “severely” limited some information gathering, although the details were censored.

'Some military personnel, who travelled overseas on civilian flights, had to use their own credit cards to pay up front, then had trouble getting reimbursed. In some cases, they had to spend up to $1,000 just for baggage.'

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2 hours ago, st27 said:

Sad state of affairs for shipyards, at least on the Great Lakes...all have gone out of business with CSL (our former Pms co.) and Algoma having all their new builds built in China.

And we don't create those skill sets overnight...huge lead times for construction.

No solution for the Navies plight for years unless we buy off the shelf from NATO partners.

I was confused with your "CSL (our former Pms co" , however research clarifies that you were talking about Paul Martin.  http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/mr-martins-liberian-manoeuvres/article727162/

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2 hours ago, st27 said:

 

No solution for the Navies plight for years unless we buy off the shelf from NATO partners.

Canada should have done that many years ago (and I definitely don't mean used equipment).......the "concept" that the wheel must be reinvented every time, just keeps burying the country........

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I have often thought the best solution would be a compromise;  buy the basic hull from a shipyard in Korea and do the finishing and outfitting in Canada.  Korea could do the hull quicker and cheaper (almost overnight) and we could keep the higher skilled tradework for ourselves.  We would get he high tech benefits without the major expense of a drydock construction of the hull.

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52 minutes ago, boestar said:

Do we not have shipyards in Halifax capable of building the necessary hulls.  I know that they are building something in there.

 

We had active shipyards many years ago but due to lack of work - essentially not enough domestic need and the inability to compete internationally on price - they went out-of-business/dormant.  The latest big plan to modernize our navy is the impetus to re-open and modernize these shipyards in Halifax.  This may, on the surface, seem like good news however we (all Canadians) are probably going to end up paying 300-400% more than if we bought from somewhere else.  If the end result was a viable industry afterwards it may be worth it but what will happen is when the contract runs out there will be no further work and the investment will be lost.

This is why I think buying the hulls from somewhere else and doing the finishing might have been a good compromise - Canada might be able to compete on the high tech end of the industry but there is no chance we will ever be able to compete on the heavy end.

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looks to me like Irving is currently in production on one AOPS ship and a second has entered the steel cutting phase of manufacture.  both ships commissioned by the DND and RCN for Arctic Patrol.

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22 hours ago, seeker said:

I have often thought the best solution would be a compromise;  buy the basic hull from a shipyard in Korea and do the finishing and outfitting in Canada.  Korea could do the hull quicker and cheaper (almost overnight) and we could keep the higher skilled tradework for ourselves.  We would get he high tech benefits without the major expense of a drydock construction of the hull.

..........that just makes too much sense !

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I think it is time to ask this, do we really need a Navy that can conduct missions far from Canada or should we instead concentrate on a "Coastal Defense" force?  My vote world be for "Costal Defense", in other words a combination of http://www.navy-marine.forces.gc.ca/en/fleet-units/mcdv-home.page

and http://www.navy-marine.forces.gc.ca/en/fleet-units/mcdv-home.page, backed up by a strong RCAF fighter wing and of course  Canadian Army ground forces.

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