WestJet London Problems in the News

[Guest]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/westjet-struggling-gatwick-flights-1.3670418?cmp=rss

WestJet flights to London prompting a wave of complaints and compensation

Delays and cancellations are plaguing the airline's routes to London, England

By Tracy Johnson, CBC News  Posted: Jul 11, 2016 5:00 AM ET| Last Updated: Jul 11, 2016 5:00 AM ET  

The Boeing 767s that WestJet flies to London Gatwick have had mechanical difficulties, resulting in delays and cancellations.

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On June 23, Kellie Power flew from Seattle to London, England, to get married. She booked a fight with WestJet; first leg from Seattle to Calgary, the next leg onto London's Gatwick airport

It did not go well.

Power's flight from Seattle to Calgary had its departure time changed to earlier in the day. WestJet called to notify her, but she didn't answer. When she arrived at the airport, the flight had already taken off and Powers had to spend the night at a hotel in Seattle.

'If they're compensating people at the rate I got, basically, they've been flying people across the Atlantic for free'

- Darryl Wilson, WestJet passenger

She arrived in London a day later than planned, but the worst wasn't behind her. When Kellie and her new husband Oscar Power flew out of Gatwick back to Seattle last Monday, the flight was delayed by more than four hours, which caused them to miss their connection.■

"We got to the airport and waited six hours for our fight," said Power. "They scheduled us for a new connection, but the already delayed flight was delayed further. We sat on the tarmac for an hour, so missed our new connection as well.

"That was the last flight out of Edmonton, which was where our layover was, so we ended up having to spend the night in Edmonton. We ended up getting into Seattle 18 hours later than we initially planned."

Aviation forums heavy on complaints

To sum up, a day-long delay going out and a nearly day-long delay coming home. A particularly rough experience, especially for a wedding trip. But the Power's story is emblematic of a problem with WestJet's London route, which has been in operation for just over two months.

 

Airline forums are heavy on complaints. One forum, on airliner.net, has a thread dedicated to WestJet's Gatwick route. Many angry passengers have taken to Twitter, with one theme: delays, schedule changes, and cancellations.

WestJet announced its service to London a little more than a year ago, its first overseas destination for the four wide-bodied Boeing 767 jets that it bought from Qantas. Those jets have an average age of 24 years, which is the core of the problem. They began to have mechanical problems.

 

WestJet's CEO describes the challenges with the Europe flights (WestJet Youtube)2:16

 

In a video posted to WestJet's internal YouTube channel on June 16, 2016, chief executive officer Gregg Saretsky explains the problem, calling the route a "hobbled operation."

"The 767s have been giving us lots of grief, lots of mechanical problems," said Saretsky in the video.

"We're finding that when things break, because some of the parts are so old, we don't have them in store. And then we're doing a global search through the AOG desk to find them and then it's taking two or three days to get these things. We don't want to keep them in stock because they break once every 20 years."

Saretsky went on to thank front line and other employees who have taken the brunt of passenger dismay and wrangled the booking of hotels and rescheduling of fights.

To ease the situation, WestJet contracted an Omni Air jet to stand in when one of the Boeing 767s needs repairs.

Ian Procter was on one of those flights, an experience that he describes as a bait-and-switch, since he had made plans to use WestJet's in-flight entertainment system for the nine-hour flight from Calgary to London.

Instead the Omni Jet had no personal entertainment system and no WestJet Connect, which is the service that allows passengers to play content on their iPads. The screens were in the middle aisle, there were no power outlets and less leg room than expected.

"We were not even provided with the basic West Jet plane services and leg room,etc," said Procter in an email. "But yet they are allowed to unilaterally change the conditions of the flight we purchased, departure and arrival times, with no notice or compensation?"

In the WestJet video, Saretsky said that the Omni jet would be flying the route, so that the airline would be able to take the four Boeing 767s out of rotation one at a time to check the aircraft. The Omni contract ended July 1.

Compensation required for delayed fights

 

WestJet's social media team has been active on Twitter responding to complaints. The company said that it's responding to each customer who makes contact.

But its liability is quite a bit bigger.

Darryl Wilson is a travel blogger and aviation buff who booked his flight from Vancouver to London for the very first flight in May. He wanted to take the inaugural flight and did so, documenting the experience on his blog.

Wilson is pleased that WestJet has brought competition to the Canada/Europe routes, but said that the service was lacking. On his way home, his flight was cancelled. He was given the option to wait a day or fly back through Toronto, getting him home late, but at least the same day. The flight was further delayed and he barely made his connection in Toronto, but was at least compensated.

Under the European Denied Boarding and Delayed Flight legislation, Wilson — and anyone else with a delayed flight of more than three hours out of Europe — is entitled to compensation. Wilson received 600 Euros, more than $800, effectively paying for his flight. If his cancelled flight was full, that's approximately $225,000 in compensation for that one flight.

Kellie and Oscar Power, with a flight delayed more than four hours would also each be entitled to 600 Euros under this law.

"It's got to be a big blow to WestJet," said Wilson. "I was not the only one, so if they're compensating people at the rate I got, basically, they've been flying people across the Atlantic for free."

Wilson said that he didn't apply for the compensation and that WestJet contacted him about with the information.

WestJet's response

In a statement to CBC News, WestJet said that the non-stop service to London Gatwick represents the longest flights WestJet has operated in its 20-year history.

"As is the case with any new aircraft type, including the Q400 when we started operating it, we have experienced a number of delays as we gain experience on the new aircraft type," spokesperson Lauren Stewart said in the statement.

WestJet also said that fewer than five per cent of the flights to London have been cancelled and "In every case we either chartered an aircraft or provided guests with travel on other airlines to ensure the issues with their travel plans were mitigated as quickly as possible."

"This is a temporary situation and we fully anticipate to be operating at our normal performance levels in the near future."

The ramifications may last longer though. Neither Kellie nor Oscar Power have ever flown WestJet before. When asked if she would again, she said no.

"This was my first time with them and my last time."

[j.k.]

They certainly are showing everyone how it's done on the Atlantic.

[rudder]

Chorus Aviation - using its regional airline subsidiary Jazz Aviation - went from no large aircraft or transoceanic flights to 6 B757 flying Caribbean/Central America/South America in 9 months. Started the operation on schedule with full regulatory approvals and never once had to sub charter to cover MTC IRROPS. Not every flight left on time but customer inconveniences were rare in an operation where all 6 aircraft were fully allocated most days of the week.

WJ needs to stop making excuses and take a hard look at why they cannot execute the addition of a fleet type with any reasonable degree of reliability. It looks like they decided to do it on the cheap and that some of the program managers and senior decision makers are in over their head.

 

[Seeker]

11 minutes ago, rudder said:

It looks like they decided to do it on the cheap and that some of the program managers and senior decision makers are in over their head.

 

It certainly looks like they got the cheapest aircraft they could find and scheduled an overly optimistic utilization.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, seeker said:

It certainly looks like they got the cheapest aircraft they could find and scheduled an overly optimistic utilization.

Perhaps a case of ego vs operational reality.  

[Guest]

not surprising that they are dwelling on cancelled flights vs very late ones.

[CanadaEH]

It's been pretty embarrassing to see how unreliable the 767's have been. I've told friends and family to avoid booking us to LGW which is something I've never said to anyone. While we could look back and do hundreds of things differently I'm pretty confident that we'll learn from our mistakes and move forward. If one thing has surpassed my expectations it's the loads. There is definitely a market for us. 

[AIP]

5 minutes ago, CanadaEH said:

It's been pretty embarrassing to see how unreliable the 767's have been. I've told friends and family to avoid booking us to LGW which is something I've never said to anyone. While we could look back and do hundreds of things differently I'm pretty confident that we'll learn from our mistakes and move forward. If one thing has surpassed my expectations it's the loads. There is definitely a market for us. 

Certainly there is a market !!  Especially when you refund all the fares through EU compensation !!! LOL

People will fly anybody for that type of deal.

[dagger]

These planes are lemons. And you can't make lemonade with them. There always is a trade-off between the cost of the product and the price charged for it. WestJet positioned itself as the ultra low cost, no frills operator on the LGW routes. But to offer a stripped down product at the lowest possible base fare, management opted for the cheapest possible lift (or they overpaid for crap in which case they deserve all this grief). Going ultra low fare meant leasing old planes and perhaps ones more experienced overseas operators had rejected, or would recognize as substandard upon physical inspection by seasoned 767 maintenance staff.

Going forward, the answer is probably to move up the cost curve a bit, get better lift, maybe upgrade the in-flight product just a bit, and charge a little more. WestJet needs good used lift to make this work, and since fuel prices will be higher next summer - mark my word on that -  WestJet might have to charge more anyway.

Long term, sticking with this junk and even junkier backup will harm the airline's reputation. So I expect something different for next summer on the North Atlantic.

I will add one bit of schadenfreude: It's funny how Gregg keeps trying to come across as this know-it-all who is smarter than all the bumpkins at those legacy airlines with all their costs. The fact is, there are no short cuts that haven't been discovered. If you could run a reliable international carrier with only old, unreliable long-haul aircraft, and make a lot of money, Boeing and Airbus would not sell another long-haul aircraft.

 

[blues deville]

4 hours ago, rudder said:

Chorus Aviation - using its regional airline subsidiary Jazz Aviation - went from no large aircraft or transoceanic flights to 6 B757 flying Caribbean/Central America/South America in 9 months. Started the operation on schedule with full regulatory approvals and never once had to sub charter to cover MTC IRROPS. Not every flight left on time but customer inconveniences were rare in an operation where all 6 aircraft were fully allocated most days of the week.

WJ needs to stop making excuses and take a hard look at why they cannot execute the addition of a fleet type with any reasonable degree of reliability. It looks like they decided to do it on the cheap and that some of the program managers and senior decision makers are in over their head.

 

Not really a fair comparison but a interesting one. The 757s used by Jazz were well maintained and in full service in the UK. Also, Jazz wisely hired an experienced group of former Skyservice and C3 employees to ensure a smooth transition. They were an excellent group. 

Also, FedEx has been quietly buying every spare part for 757 and 767s. AOG's for this older westjet fleet are unfortunately a serious problem. 

[FA@AC]

47 minutes ago, dagger said:

 

I will add one bit of schadenfreude: It's funny how Gregg keeps trying to come across as this know-it-all who is smarter than all the bumpkins at those legacy airlines with all their costs.

 

Bumpkins at legacy airlines?  I'm not sure where Gregg gets his wardrobe advice, but he looks like a bumpkin himself in the video contained in the CBC piece.

<iframe src="http://www.cbc.ca/i/caffeine/syndicate/?mediaId=721416771543" width="460" height="258" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's a fascinating, probing interview though.  Gregg is asked brainbusters such as "Are you happy with the 767s", and the in-house "interviewer" nods solemnly at Gregg's wisdom while he replies.  When Gregg at the end of the "interview" declares "We're fixing it", the minion again nods solemnly and says "We're fixing it.  Absolutely."

 

[CanadaEH]

Guess we found our resident fashionista. 

[blues deville]

I really have to wonder why WS got themselves in the trans-Alantic market in the first place. I think as an airline their current route structure was profitable. 

[boestar]

Interesting that Rouge operates the route with 767 aircraft as well and does not see any issues.

[dagger]

53 minutes ago, boestar said:

Interesting that Rouge operates the route with 767 aircraft as well and does not see any issues.

I assume that most of Rouge's 767s have been with AC for a long time. So AC's line personnel have a lot of experience with them and AC probably has a parts inventory since it flies enough of that aircraft type. In the used aircraft world, particular fins gain a reputation as dogs. Looks like WS ended up with some of those.

[conehead]

At AC, the same Maintenance guys kept maintaining the same aircraft, just with a different paint scheme.

[boestar]

I get how it works.  Just saying that the support structure needs to be in place to support the operation.  Unproven airframes on a new route where no additional support is available is a risky business at best.  Tossing in a lemon in the basket doesn't help

[J.O.]

The root cause of all of this was taking on the ex-Qantas aircraft. I know folks who looked at those same aircraft and said "no" because the maintenance records were an absolute mess. It sounds like the paperwork wasn't the only thing that was a mess.

[blues deville]

34 minutes ago, J.O. said:

The root cause of all of this was taking on the ex-Qantas aircraft. I know folks who looked at those same aircraft and said "no" because the maintenance records were an absolute mess. It sounds like the paperwork wasn't the only thing that was a mess.

JO is correct. There were some odd gaps in the aircraft and maintenance log books. Also several AD's were required to meet TC standards which is not unsual. The status of these 767 airplanes history was a show stopper. I think WS's initial patched up 737-200's were probably in better shape.  

[Maverick]

42 minutes ago, blues deville said:

JO is correct. There were some odd gaps in the aircraft and maintenance log books. Also several AD's were required to meet TC standards which is not unsual. The status of these 767 airplanes history was a show stopper. I think WS's initial patched up 737-200's were probably in better shape.  

Possibly true but we turned some real mutts into respectable airplanes. Once we get the 767's through a WJ controlled "C" check things will improve. I think everyone was blinded by "Rain man". 

I hated that movie!

[Maverick]

9 hours ago, boestar said:

Interesting that Rouge operates the route with 767 aircraft as well and does not see any issues.

Really boestar? You're smarter than that. 

[blues deville]

17 minutes ago, Maverick said:

Possibly true but we turned some real mutts into respectable airplanes. Once we get the 767's through a WJ controlled "C" check things will improve. I think everyone was blinded by "Rain man". 

I hated that movie!

An in house 'C' check should help in some areas but spares for AOG are trouble for anyone new to this aircraft type. My previous airline had a 757 go AOG while operating a European wet lease with an inboard leading edge slat delaminated. After an extensive global search (Fedex had one but wouldn't give it up) this obscure part was located in a small Seattle shop and was nearly refurbished. Aircraft was down for the better part of two weeks. Customer was needless to say was "unhappy". 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, blues deville said:

JO is correct. There were some odd gaps in the aircraft and maintenance log books. Also several AD's were required to meet TC standards which is not unsual. The status of these 767 airplanes history was a show stopper. I think WS's initial patched up 737-200's were probably in better shape.  

and the spares pool was a lot larger....

[blues deville]

55 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

and the spares pool was a large larger....

Yes good point. And I would imagine the initial WS maintenance were ex PW, CP and CAIL with experience on type.

[Maverick]

4 hours ago, blues deville said:

An in house 'C' check should help in some areas but spares for AOG are trouble for anyone new to this aircraft type. My previous airline had a 757 go AOG while operating a European wet lease with an inboard leading edge slat delaminated. After an extensive global search (Fedex had one but wouldn't give it up) this obscure part was located in a small Seattle shop and was nearly refurbished. Aircraft was down for the better part of two weeks. Customer was needless to say was "unhappy". 

Spares haven't been the problem for the most part. It's the part that fails every 10 years that's been on the airplane for 15 that has.