DEFCON Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 2 hours ago, boestar said: UD et al: I did not read his comment in that frame. I read it that the charge in Hawaii carrying a misdemeanor offence would make it LOOK like a mole hill to the Canadian courts when looking at the civil suit. As if to say "well the authorities in the US dismissed it as nothing so case dismissed". Better to not mention it and let the case stand on its own. I think the original comment was read out of context. Re-read the post and can see that interpretation. My perspective was narrowed somewhat by the knowledge that criminal charges ,whether felony or misdemeanour, was irrelevant to any civil proceedings in Canada. Does a conditional mea culpa permit of normalized relations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 The comment was all about perception. should one party marginalize the offence then it is human nature to look to that as a sort of precedent and say "well they thought it was minor so whats the big deal". Any ammunition in a court battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 9 hours ago, boestar said: UD et al: I did not read his comment in that frame. I read it that the charge in Hawaii carrying a misdemeanor offence would make it LOOK like a mole hill to the Canadian courts when looking at the civil suit. As if to say "well the authorities in the US dismissed it as nothing so case dismissed". Better to not mention it and let the case stand on its own. I think the original comment was read out of context. That was my reading of the post as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 If this includes pickets and disturbs the passenger flow , I wonder who the passengers will blame? The airline or the pickets who could have instead flown to YYC on other carriers and then paraded infront of the WestJet offices. WestJet lawsuit inspires protest at Vancouver Airport by Kaitlin Lee Posted Mar 15, 2016 7:09 am MDT A group plans to canvass the Vancouver airport Tuesday, demanding WestJet take employee safety seriously and its CEO resign. The protest is in response to a lawsuit from a former flight attendant, who claims the Calgary-based airline not only failed to fire a pilot who sexually assaulted her but told her to keep quiet. None of her allegations have been proved in court. The group plans to carry around a mobile billboard that reads #SilentNoMore International consumer watchdog SumofUs.org launched a petition 10 days ago demanding CEO Gregg Saretsky step down, and it currently has over 26 thousand signatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 They're probably taking a break from their anti-trump activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Without drawing any conclusions one way or the other, it would seem to make sense for a group so highly set on the rights of the individual to wait until the allegations are proven before demanding that other individuals pay consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 So Why the CEO? Will things change with a new CEO? Will the alleged infractions continue with a new CEO? Things like this first need to be proven factual and the the person at fault needs to take the fall not the CEO or some other scapegoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 18 hours ago, boestar said: . . . . and the the person at fault needs to take the fall not the CEO or some other scapegoat. You must be motivated about this topic. (see the double 'the'?) When I read your post I was thinking "what if the CEO or some other manager IS responsible for letting this incident fester and grow until it became national headline news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 The debate has turned into a big 'what if'. Some updated factual information is needed to refresh the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, DEFCON said: The debate has turned into a big 'what if'. Some updated factual information is needed to refresh the issue. Ah come on, guessing is so much more fun for lots of folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
better4me Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 20 hours ago, boestar said: So Why the CEO? Will things change with a new CEO? Will the alleged infractions continue with a new CEO? Things like this first need to be proven factual and the the person at fault needs to take the fall not the CEO or some other scapegoat. The CEO is the public face of the organization and is the responsible officer for all of the organization's activities. Besides, calling for the head of a no name People department manager or Corporate Security investigator is crass. Finally, if indeed the opposing side were to bag (to use a hunting term for a successful kill) the CEO, majority of other large public companies would amend their policies and procedures to prevent their firms from coming under the same amount of scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 18 minutes ago, better4me said: Finally, if indeed the opposing side were to bag (to use a hunting term for a successful kill) the CEO, majority of other large public companies would amend their policies and procedures to prevent their firms from coming under the same amount of scrutiny. I would assume that the majority of large public companies already have policies and procedures to adequately deal with these issues and if they don't surely the bad PR from this one is enough to motivate the adoption of same without waiting to see if the CEO is forced to resign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.k. Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 While the sexual assault may be a misdemeanour offence since it didn't get past groping, it would probably not be the only charge brought if the assault occurred as in the statement of claim. Trying to overcome or hold someone down to commit an offence, including sexual assault, is a Class B or even A felony in Hawaii depending on the circumstance. Class B felonies carry a maximum 10 year term and fine of $25000. Class A felonies carry a term up to 20 years without possibility of suspension or probation and a $50000 fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 13 minutes ago, j.k. said: if the assault occurred as in the statement of claim. That's one of the multi million dollar questions j.k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 On March 12, 2016 at 1:58 PM, better4me said: Oh good,WestJet called in their lap dog professional services firm. The final report on the investigation conducted by WS will be expensive and will vindicate the company. It will be expensive because EY will bring in their most respected Forensic and HR Investigations partners from around the globe. These partners come with impressive CV but can be sold for the right expensive price. During the Sabre cutover, EY was used to bully the external auditor and other consultants into eating a bunch of professional services fees. The EY report conveniently came wrapped in a series of service proposals that stated EY would take over all professional services for audit, tax, and IT consulting. When word of EY's approach got out in Corporate Calgary, they lost a number of contracts due to the appearance of impropriety. . Different team with a much different mandate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The hits continue. Other FA say they were punished for union activity. http://m.thetyee.ca/News/2016/03/22/WestJet-Firing-Investigation/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Wow. The company says the firings have nothing to do with union organization. Like they would, even if it was true. Those who have been fired say it's all about being part of the union drive. Like they would, even if it wasn't true. Makes me glad I'm not the guy who has to decide what really happened. Must be tough on the average Westjetter these days - hard to accept that either the company you work for is capable of malfeaseance or that some trusted co-workers are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 12 minutes ago, seeker said: Wow. The company says the firings have nothing to do with union organization. Like they would, even if it was true. Those who have been fired say it's all about being part of the union drive. Like they would, even if it wasn't true. Makes me glad I'm not the guy who has to decide what really happened. Must be tough on the average Westjetter these days - hard to accept that either the company you work for is capable of malfeaseance or that some trusted co-workers are. Probably more hard on the remaining "original staff" who enjoyed a "family atmosphere" until unlimited growth put an end to that. A real shame but a very good example of what happens when endless growth is chosen over smaller/steady profits and a great place to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 And the fan keeps turning: Quote WestJet denies sex-assault allegations from former B.C. flight attendant by Canadian Press Posted Mar 22, 2016 5:19 pm MDT VANCOUVER – WestJet is denying allegations it failed to take proper action after a former flight attendant complained to management she had been sexually assaulted by a pilot in 2010 while on a stopover in Hawaii. In a statement of defence filed today in British Columbia Supreme Court, the Calgary-based company says it immediately launched an internal investigation into Mandalena Lewis’s complaint, but was ultimately unable to conclude the unnamed pilot had committed assault. The airline says the pilot’s behaviour related to excessive drinking, partying and fraternizing with flight attendants failed to meet professional standards. The document says the airline suspended the pilot, issued him a last-chance warning and depriving him of the privilege of international flights, adding that privacy laws prevented the company from sharing those disciplinary measures with Lewis. Lewis is also suing WestJet over breach of contract and wrongful dismissal, saying she was terminated because of her repeated requests to view her employee file in order to learn what the company had done about her complaint. WestJet says its decision to fire Lewis earlier this year was rather the result of her perennially poor attendance, inappropriate use of social media and aggressive communication style. http://www.660news.com/2016/03/22/westjet-denies-sex-assault-allegations-from-former-b-c-flight-attendant/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
better4me Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Leaping off Malcolm's post above, here is the Westjet Statement of Defense, presented by CBC.ca document cloud. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2774473-Westjet-Response-to-Civil-Claim.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Quote . . . the Calgary-based company says it immediately launched an internal investigation into Mandalena Lewis’s complaint, but was ultimately unable to conclude the unnamed pilot had committed assault. Yet the next line says: Quote The airline says the pilot’s behaviour related to excessive drinking, partying and fraternizing with flight attendants failed to meet professional standards. So something happened, something that the company suggests did not 'meet professional standards' yet no 'assault' had been committed. The lawyers are going to have a field day with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 11 minutes ago, better4me said: Leaping off Malcolm's post above, here is the Westjet Statement of Defense, presented by CBC.ca document cloud. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2774473-Westjet-Response-to-Civil-Claim.html You do have to wonder why her employment continued after what appears to be a large number of disciplinary actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
better4me Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Malcolm said: I am surprised, based on the WestJet submission, that her employment wasn't terminated earlier. Malcolm I'm only on page 6, don't spoil the ending. I agree, I would have turfed her a long time ago. Finally, sub paragraph 34(h) is of particular chuckles considering the event of 11 years ago WRT the Bean (aka Girard) and computer passwords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FA@AC Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 This group seems to be suggesting that Lewis' pro-union activities had something to do with her termination: http://m.thetyee.ca/News/2016/03/22/WestJet-Firing-Investigation/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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