Nasty sexual assault lawsuit against Westjet

[moeman]

I suspect that if these alleged incidents were reported and were in fact kept under wraps to protect the pilot, WS might be in a bit of trouble no matter if the allegations are proven or not. It should be easy enough to show if this fellow stopped flying to Maui after the alleged incident as well as to prove that the plaintiff was scheduled so as to avoid flying with him.

[J.O.]

It's no wonder that some people love to brand male pilots as raging mysogonists because some of the so-called balanced comments here are truly embarssing. Please do not try to sugar coat it as anything other than circling the old hangar club wagons because that's what it is. 

I have no way of knowing who is guilty or innocent in this thing but I believe any reference made to either the alleged victim or the alleged perpetrator's history, personal beliefs or the colour of their clothes to be patently unfair and irrelevant. 

[cp fa]

53 minutes ago, seeker said:

Earlier I said that I've seen enough low-life behavior from both genders to know that it's foolish to pick sides the day after the story becomes public, especially based solely on the information presented to us by the media. I don't have any basis for deciding what really happened.  As I said, I found her twitter account and mentioned that it was interesting.  I don't know if it makes her more believable or less believable.  You obviously read through it - did you find it interesting?  If not, why did you read it?

 

The only reason I looked at her postings was to see what you were insinuating.

If someone posted an article about a guy who had his car stolen or his house broken into, would you google the guy to see if he was telling the truth?

[cp fa]

38 minutes ago, moeman said:

I suspect that if these alleged incidents were reported and were in fact kept under wraps to protect the pilot, WS might be in a bit of trouble no matter if the allegations are proven or not. It should be easy enough to show if this fellow stopped flying to Maui after the alleged incident as well as to prove that the plaintiff was scheduled so as to avoid flying with him.

According to one article, there were charges laid in Hawaii.  I wonder if the company actively helped him avoid going back there if there are issues with obstruction of justice, or does that not apply in international law?

Anyway, like Blues said, I'm glad she's finally getting her day in court.

[Seeker]

3 minutes ago, cp fa said:

 

The only reason I looked at her postings was to see what you were insinuating.

If someone posted an article about a guy who had his car stolen or his house broken into, would you google the guy to see if he was telling the truth?

 

I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth.  I insinuated nothing.  Her twitter posts were interesting to me, I felt others might be interested too.  In the same way that we read about someone in the news but might be interested in seeing an interview - adds a dimension. 

[Guest]

And the heat gets turned up.
 

Quote

BC group circulates petition demanding WestJet CEO step down

by Ian Campbell

Posted Mar 3, 2016 12:19 pm MST

 

A British Columbia based group has begun to circulate a petition demanding WestJet CEO Gregg Saretsky step down in the wake of sexual assault allegations within the airline.

Lawyers for a former WestJet flight attendant filed the lawsuit in BC Supreme Court after the corporation allegedly fired her for reporting an assault by one of their pilots.

The petition argues Saretsky is unfit to lead WestJet due to his repeated failure to provide a workplace where claims of sexual assault are adequately investigated and employees are protected.

They want the CEO replaced and the company to immediately update and enforce policies regarding sexual harassment and assault.

“I find it hard to believe that with various investigations, complaints as serious as these, that the CEO is not aware of the situation,” said Emma Pullman, lead campaign strategist. “More to the point, it is the responsibility of the company to create the workplace culture that makes sure these kinds of things don’t happen and employees have a safe place to work.”

Pullman feels they are striking a visceral nerve, with messages of support pouring in for the former flight attendant and adds for many, this reality hits close to home.

She’s hoping through their campaign the women receive the justice they deserve.

WestJet did provide 660 NEWS with the following statement:

“WestJet does not comment on ongoing legal proceedings but confirms it will file a statement of defense. WestJet further confirms its commitment to maintaining a safe and harassment free environment for its employees and guests and takes its obligations in this respect with the utmost seriousness.”

 

[Seeker]

 

Link to petition:  http://action.sumofus.org/a/west-jet-whistleblower/?sub=tw

 

I hope that's OK with cp fa - (I googled it).

[Vsplat]

My comments below are not reflective of comments on this thread, but the comments in the media.

it is a strange thing in our society how someone who reports an attack can almost certainly expect further ones, often from the system they look to for support.  I've found this to be equally true for victims of an attack as it is for victims of a malicious complaint regarding one.

At the risk of offending, the closest parallel I can find is in our old barnyard, where a chicken would get marked by damage from a peer, only to be set upon by the others.  If left undiscovered or unaddressed long enough, the process only accelerated until the animal was killed.

Perhaps you have seen this in the school yard or workplace (more prevalent in an office environment perhaps), where something nasty is witnessed,  be it word or deed.  There is that moment when those present look around for a cue that determines their next action.  Should they stand up for the victim?  Cheer for the aggressor, perhaps even join in?  Stand silently by?  Often the answer lies in the perceived power or popularity of the instigator.

All that said, the timeframe of this kind of thing does not surprise me in the least.  It will make getting to the bottom of things more difficult and painful.  Regardless of what happened on that layover, much of the damage is already done. 

Vs

[Guest]

From the petition, is the count really that high?  Imo one is too many if the facts support the claim.

Quote

But Mandalena wasn't the only one. Dozens of women who have been assaulted, harassed and raped, mostly by pilots -- and their employer, WestJet, has done nothing to help or protect them.

Imo one is too many if the facts support the claim.

[DEFCON]

33 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

The petition argues Saretsky is unfit to lead WestJet due to his repeated failure to provide a workplace where claims of sexual assault are adequately investigated and employees are protected.

So then, it's settled I guess; Saretsky should be hung out to dry and WestJet closed down altogether because a group of screaming Mimi's has an unsubstantiated opinion they want to advance?

Maybe we could get rid of Courts of Law altogether and save a bunch on the various budgets? Fair hearings could be administered by Emma Pullman and her gang of ... 

Lynch mobs are apparently still a functional component of society as evidenced by their continuing good work on behalf of us all ... sheesh!

[DEFCON]

43 minutes ago, Vsplat said:

the closest parallel I can find is in our old barnyard, where a chicken would get marked by damage from a peer, only to be set upon by the others.  If left undiscovered or unaddressed long enough, the process only accelerated until the animal was killed.

I've seen that myself and always wondered why the bleeding chicken would willingly sit there and allow the others to peck the growing wound until the victim herself succumbed?

[Seeker]

DEFCON, those posts cross the line.  You should delete them - blaming the victim is unacceptable.  Sexual assault and harrassment is a serious problem and should not be excused or diminished.

[DEFCON]

Huh?

[moeman]

"Screaming Mimi's" ? Really?

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, DEFCON said:

Posted 47 minutes ago · Report post

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

The petition argues Saretsky is unfit to lead WestJet due to his repeated failure to provide a workplace where claims of sexual assault are adequately investigated and employees are protected.

So then, it's settled I guess; Saretsky should be hung out to dry and WestJet closed down altogether because a group of screaming Mimi's has an unsubstantiated opinion they want to advance?

Maybe we could get rid of Courts of Law altogether and save a bunch on the various budgets? Fair hearings could be administered by Emma Pullman and her gang of ... 

Lynch mobs are apparently still a functional component of society as evidenced by their continuing good work on behalf of us all ... sheesh!

Defcon:

Your post makes it seem that I picked out the item from the petition when in reality I quoted the entire article. So please no more cherry picking.  http://www.660news.com/2016/03/03/bc-group-circulates-petition-demanding-westjet-ceo-step-down/

[MD2]

There shouldn't really be so much sensitivity towards a little curious look-see, because if Jian Ghomeshi's trial is any indication, there will likely be a lot more probing and prodding to be done about every email, phone call, conversation, letter, etc. Unless of course this never makes it to trial which is quite Possible.

[DEFCON]

My post, not yours Malcolm thank you.

Moeman ... what would you call those who pursue the mob like approach to justice?

I read the petition. The petitioners here are little more than a gang of nasty mean types that could care less for the notion of fair hearings and the like; they would prefer instead to act without proper authority and justification to hang a man and vilify a Company on the basis of unproven allegations that they have purposely sensationalized.

 

[Fido]

Trial by Twitter

 

 

[moeman]

28 minutes ago, DEFCON said:

Moeman ... what would you call those who pursue the mob like approach to justice?

 

I took your post to mean you were calling the accusers "whiners".

As for the petitioners, I'm no fan either. Here's how the group describes itself:

"SumOfUs is a movement of consumers, workers and shareholders speaking with one voice to counterbalance the growing power of large corporations. Join us on our journey as we seek to make the world a better place for ourselves, our children and all who share our planet."

[DEFCON]

Thanks Moeman.

The accusers will have their day in Court which is the way due process is supposed to work.

I think Seeker may have not appreciated my comments regarding chickens. No analogy was intended, I was speaking of a true observation I had with chickens 40 years back and Vsplat reminded me of a question I've had ever since; I thought he may have had an answer.

[rudder]

Messy - messy - messy.

If the facts bear out that the employer response to an allegation of sexual assault between co-workers was simply "we will make sure that you two do not work together again" then it raises serious ethical, statutory, and legal questions.

Having said that, the facts seem to indicate that no charges were ever laid in any jurisdiction. The complainant provides information, the authorities investigate, and the Crown/District Attorney make the decision about charges (which would in this case logically lead to an arrest warrant in a country that has an extradition treaty). There is no mention of charges.

A dismissal for insubordination is a petty cause for dismissal, particularly if there is no progressive discipline on file for the terminated employee. But with no union contract in place there is no grievance procedure and no arbitral review.

It will be interesting to read the rebuttal submission from the employer. A lot more information needs to be backfilled before anyone can start to draw conclusions.

I cannot imagine a worse PR event to appear on the front page of the two national newspapers. Not much 'Westjetitude' here. 

[Guest]

How soon people forget, unions exist only because of bad management not because of bad employees.

[cp fa]

1 hour ago, rudder said:

 

Having said that, the facts seem to indicate that no charges were ever laid in any jurisdiction. The complainant provides information, the authorities investigate, and the Crown/District Attorney make the decision about charges (which would in this case logically lead to an arrest warrant in a country that has an extradition treaty). There is no mention of charges.

 

 

"Lewis's allegations were investigated by police in Hawaii; a Maui prosecutor confirmed to CTV News that a WestJet pilot was charged in the state in 2010."

 

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/ex-flight-attendant-says-westjet-failed-to-probe-pilot-sex-assault-1.2801439

 

[Airband]

Actual claim fleshes out number of areas not covered in media reports.

Quote

2010 Sexual Assault on the Plaintiff by Pilot M

25. On January 24, 2010, the plaintiff was working under Pilot M on a schedule that included a layover in Maui, Hawaii.

26. As was its ordinary practice, WestJet had booked the pilots and flight attendants to stay in the same hotel, on this occasion, the Makena Beach Resort.

27. As was encouraged by WestJet, the pilots and flight attendants socialized that evening on the beach and then over dinner at a restaurant near the hotel. When they returned to the hotel, Pilot M invited the plaintiff, the first officer and a male flight attendant to his room to have drinks on the balcony. The female first officer was intoxicated and went straight to her room to sleep. The male flight attendant declined as he wanted to use the computer in the hotel lobby. The plaintiff accepted the invitation and Pilot M and the plaintiff sat on his balcony and had a drink and smoked.

28. Pilot M and the plaintiff engaged in friendly conversation. At no time did the plaintiff indicate she wanted to engage in sexual activity with Pilot M. After a time, they left the balcony and sat in the room, which was relatively large. The plaintiff sat on a chair and Pilot M sat on the bed, continuing to converse. The plaintiff got up and began gathering her things to leave as they talked. She was standing by the desk in the room when Pilot M then attempted to engage in conversation which referenced a scenario of sex with the plaintiff. Uncomfortable having this conversation with her superior, the plaintiff remained friendly but prepared to leave. Pilot M then grabbed the plaintiff, pretending to play-wrestle with her. The plaintiff felt fearful and she asked him to stop. She physically resisted him and attempted to verbally de-escalate the situation so she could leave. Pilot M stopped, but then attempted to play-wrestle a second time. Again the plaintiff resisted and demanded he stop.

29.Pilot M then grabbed the plaintiff and dragged her onto the bed, wrestling her into submission while kissing her and groping her genitals. The plaintiff was terrified. She resisted physically, yelling that he stop. Pilot M did not stop but rather continued to grope and attempt to kiss her. In her panic, the plaintiff managed to leverage her legs into a position where she was physically able to kick out and push Pilot M off her. He stumbled back into a TV stand.

30. The plaintiff, fearful that she was going to be further assaulted, gathered her belongings and again tried to verbally de-escalate the situation with Pilot M. He purported to become conciliatory and told her he wanted her to stay the night with him and offered the plaintiff another drink. The plaintiff refused and left the room.

31. The plaintiff returned to her room. She vomited, cried, attempted to calm herself without success and barely slept.

32. The next day the flight crew did not begin their shift until later in the afternoon. The plaintiff remained in her room for most of the day. When she stepped out to buy a coffee from the café in the lobby of the hotel, she passed Pilot M in a hallway. She avoided eye contact with him, but he stopped and asked her not to tell anyone about what happened the night before.

33. The plaintiff sent a text to the female pilot who was the first officer. The first officer invited the plaintiff to come to her room and the plaintiff reported the sexual assault to her.

34. The crew flew back to Vancouver from Maui later that day. On the evening of January 25, 2010, the plaintiff reported the incident in detail to her manager at WestJet and the Flight Attendants Association Board for WestJet.

35. On January 26, 2010, the plaintiff made a report of the sexual assault to the RCMP. The RCMP contacted the Maui police and relayed the plaintiff's information to them. The plaintiff informed WestJet that she had made the report.

36.The Maui police subsequently opened an investigation file and later assigned a prosecutor. The plaintiff informed WestJet of these events along with the police file number and the name of the prosecutor in Maui.

LewisClaim.pdf

[UpperDeck]

I think Seeker was pulling your leg, Defcom....and the appendages of a few others at the same time.

Keep in mind that false accusations are often made for reasons beyond the ken of those uninvolved. And just complaints are asserted and ignored.

Sexually-related incidents are particularly difficult because they almost always devolve into " he said-she said" and how do you prove that negative?

Speaking from experience, I know of allegations of domestic assault asserted solely to achieve a tactical advantage; I have dealt with a concocted story of rape; and, I have been involved with the victims of such assaults.

It ain't easy.