Climate Change?

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First up to the plate is India who says in effect .... piss off ,.....

India skipping out on summit

India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the leader of the most populous Commonwealth country with an exponentially growing appetite for coal-fired electricity generation, is taking a pass on this year's Commonwealth meeting amid concerns that the developing subcontinent poses a major obstacle to a comprehensive climate deal.


Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is greeted Thursday by Malta's Prime Minister, Joseph Muscat, as he arrives at the Auberge de Castille ahead of the Commonwealth heads of government meeting in Valletta, Malta. (Adrian Wyld/The Canadian Press)

India's "coal minister" Piyush Goyal is on record saying the world's third-largest producer of greenhouse gases won't be constrained by emissions limits when developed countries have spent the past century pouring carbon into the Earth's atmosphere.

Meanwhile, tiny Tuvalu — an archipelago of low-lying islands in the South Pacific — is in danger of being submerged by rising sea levels due to global warming.

Negotiating the contradictions within the Commonwealth group of countries, said Dion, is "a very helpful training camp for Paris."

He maintains that, while negotiations will be "intense," the two-week-long COP21 conference will end with "a unanimous, robust agreement that will be a step in the right direction to fight climate change."

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Found on the net FWIW... " My fellow Canadians, you are buying into a lie regarding our energy industry and the global environment. We are a mere 35 million people, just 0.5% of this planet's 7.3 bill

Been saying this for decades and from the very beginning of this thread. The oceans cover nearly 80% of the surface of our pale blue dot. Their average depth is 10,000 feet. All atmospheric weather is

Gator You are talking about pollution not climate change. I'm all for reducing pollution in all it's forms but to think that is going to change the climate is a big leap. The climate will ch

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How about telling some countries to stop cutting down the rain forests...Brazil, Malaysia, Madagascar etc and stopping ocean pollution, hey maybe even controlling population growth. But it is easier for some to develop policies to take money out of your/my pockets under the name of carbon taxes and cap and trade. Give money to 3rd world countries a la Kyoto. A real feel good excercise. Hello Al Gore, Jr Trudowe and Ms Wynne.

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How about telling some countries to stop cutting down the rain forests...Brazil, Malaysia, Madagascar etc and stopping ocean pollution, hey maybe even controlling population growth. But it is easier for some to develop policies to take money out of your/my pockets under the name of carbon taxes and cap and trade. Give money to 3rd world countries a la Kyoto. A real feel good excercise. Hello Al Gore, Jr Trudowe and Ms Wynne.

st27: you forgot something, they are cutting down the rain forests to free up land to produce the ever popular "Bio-Fuels" in the belief that the use of BioFuel will reduce CO2 emissions but forgetting that plants scrub out CO2 on a daily basis. Then of course no consideration is giving to the wiping out of animal and insect species that we might have yet to discover. :angry_smile:

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st27, add David Suzuki to that list;

David Suzuki compares oil sands defenders to slave traders;


During the interview, David Suzuki heaped praise on Alberta Premier Rachel Notley for her province's recent announcement of a carbon tax.

"Go Girl, go! It's terrific," Suzuki said, saying the carbon tax was a huge "reversal".


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Interesting announcement, would not the money be better spent in developing better energy efficiency here in Canada so we can actually achieve the Libs. domestic goals?

Trudeau pledges $2.6B to developing nations to fight climate change

By James Armstrong Senior Web Coordinator Global News

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced Friday that Canada would expand its role in fighting climate change in developing countries ahead of next week’s climate talks in Paris.

Trudeau announced that the Canadian government will give $2.65 billion over five years to developing countries to help their fight against climate change.

A government press release said the contribution will support the 2009 Copenhagen Accord on climate change and will help the developing countries transition to low-carbon economies.

Trudeau was in London, England this week meeting with Prime Minister David Cameron as well as Queen Elizabeth II.

He’s expected to head to Paris for next week’s climate change talks along with other notable Canadian leaders including Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne and Toronto Mayor John Tory as they meet with hundreds of other international leaders to talk about the threat of climate change.

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At least our Prime Minister is actually attending this Climate Change conference. And another first...he actually met with Provincial leaders. Wow.

DEFCON, if I may, in re pots and kettles, perhaps, and given the list of his many possessions, probably, but, regardless of who's chest and ego is currently being lauded or dissed or what corporate bottom line and shareholders' investment is threatened, the phenomenon remains and, however caused, climate change will have material effects, if not already so.

In the flight safety world, it would be consumately irresponsible and possibly criminal to ignore/bury any data should an accident result from such behaviour. While aviation accidents are always political to some extent, here our leaders are charged with protecting us from the worst effects of unbridled industrialism and the politics of growth but they seem to behave as though there were a lifeboat of some kind in our future as our short-term economy (perhaps another century long?), begins to deal us our own cards back.

A decade ago in this argument, someone here observed that we could be possibly wrong and CC isn't a communist, socialist, envirofreak, dastardly plot against business after all but is real in that it may disenfranchise, drown and/or starve millions of have-nots (with predictable consequences), and that it is probably better to err on the side of caution and do something before change begins to make life more challenging.

Whether or not Mr. Suzuki is merely a snake-oil salesman, as the black-and-white simplistic right-wing press incessantly bleat, is immaterial as he is now successfully sidelined, but the message remains as stated above, and we don't appear to have hearkened. No matter; nature can't be fooled or even cajoled or bargained with. To regurgitate an old saw, "when we throw something away, where is 'away'?" To put it as bluntly as I've ever posted, there is no "rescue" if we fxck it up. There is no more "away".

As for who gets to go to Mars first, I vote for every politician who is not rabid and passionate about dealing with this phenomenon. Even Bezos or Musk probably can't build a rocket big enough to take'em all.

I was doing some looking around on the net regarding nuclear power the other day, and I believe that India and Pakistan are as much committed to that source of power generation as they are coal, etc. A lot more research would have to be done to confirm that statement!

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I agree with you Don, I just don't like Suzuki for the reasons you've mentioned and his arrogant public demeanor.

As far as I can tell, all our problems can be attributed either directly, or indirectly to human overpopulation, especially in the third world and nobody seems capable, or even willing to address that aspect of our collective stress.

Will anyone give the matter more than lip service at the Summit? I'd like to be surprised, to be proven wrong by the issuance of a genuine plan that actually has a chance to reverse the trend, but I won't be disappointed that it doesn't follow either as that's the result I've come to expect from these flashy events.

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DEFCON, celebrity has its costs and problems and I think Dr Suzuki has cultivated it, first, perhaps as a way of supporting and then conveying his message. After all, no one here would be called by any media outlet to do a full-length television program on climate change, now would they? But in cultivating the 'self' for such laudable work, one perhaps begins to blur the difference between the message one is trying to convey and who is doing that conveying! I don't know anyone who has kept the two separate over a long period of time. Eventually the psychology of hubris captures one, which makes humility all the more powerful...

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Seems that Thousands will desend on Ottawa today Nov. 29th. I sure hope they all arrive on pedal bikes or on foot.

Media advisory: The 100% Possible: March for Climate Solutions and Justice - 100% clean and renewable by 2050 is possible: thousands to march in Ottawa Today/

OTTAWA, Nov. 27, 2015 /CNW/ - Thousands will gather on Sunday, November 29, the day before the Paris climate summit, to tell our political leaders that a 100% clean and renewable Canada by 2050 is 100% possible.

A diverse coalition representing First Nations, business, labour, faith communities, environmental groups and individual, concerned Canadians will call for bold action on climate change and on building a clean, renewable and just future.

Press Conference


Sunday, November 29, 2015


Joanna Kerr, Executive Director, Greenpeace Canada

Tim Gray, Executive Director, Environmental Defence
Emmanuelle Tremblay, President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees (CAPE)
Jacques Létourneau, President, Confédération des Syndicats Nationaux (CSN)

Dr. John Stone, Adjunct Research Professor, Department of Geography and Environmental Studies, Carleton Univerity

Chief Lance Haymond of the Eagle Village First Nation


10:30 a.m.


Capital Hill Hotel & Suites, Laurier Room

88 Albert Street, Ottawa


1.866.219.7782 , Code: 700446

Speeches will be delivered in French and English, and a bilingual question period will follow.

Speakers will be available to media upon request.

March Departure:


1:30 p.m


Ottawa City Hall

Marion Dewar Plaza, 110 Laurier Avenue West, Ottawa, ON

March Arrival:


3:00 p.m.


Parliament Hill

Many prominent personalities will also take part in the March, including :

  • Most Reverence Paul-André Durocher, Archbishop of Gatineau and former President of the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops
  • Ashley Callingbull - Mrs Universe
  • David Suzuki, scientists, environmentalist
  • Tzeporah Berman, Adjunct Professor Faculty of Environmental Studies York University

SOURCE Équiterre rt.gif?NewsItemId=C8910&Transmission_Id=

For further information: Sarbjit Kaur (English),, 416-274-5324; Julie Tremblay, Equiterre (French),, 514-966-6992; Mathieu M-Perron,CSN,, 514-773-0060


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FormerCPAir, re, "I sure hope they all arrive on pedal bikes or on foot."

I know you're saying this TiC, but any such gather automatically fails such a metric because a "green" transportation infrastructure does not exist.

What's more, those politicians who attempt commiepinko "bike lane" policies make many believe that their government has lost its mind and is cutting off their right hand, so vociferous is the bleating, wailing and knashing of teeth.

Now walking in Montreal or Toronto or Halifax or St John's in winter does make a case for "progress"...

Without getting too serious on a lovely Sunday morning on the coast, if we were to do pedals/bikes and indeed horses and carts, we should have shut down Henry Ford, (and all the other engines of our economy like Boeing), when he created his Model 'T'. So "automatic" and "logical" is the notion of "progress" that we can't step-out of our culture to question it.

But you can't keep "progress* " down, can you?! :lol:

* We're a symbol-making creature, ("this stands for that"), but I think we also should have stopped cuneiform writing while it was being created 4000 years ago, and instead just kept on talking with one another and telling stories about the past so the future can still unfold...writing "removes" the speaker and creates a reality separate from the individual. It's practicality is certainly "proven" by "progress", and what we have lost by not doing "facetime", (oh, ....wait), is invisible and I think, immeasurable.

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Out of all the speakers and prominent personalities, anybody there that can actually talk about the technology that can make this happen?? Or realistically forecast what the affect on the economy will be wrt jobs?? Lots of kumbayya but I would like to hear from business leaders as well.

As a matter of fact, I feel better knowing our Jr.PM will be ably assisted by the United Church, who will be lending their support in Paris...just how many people has Trudowe invited to enjoy a European side show??

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Most older cities like Toronto have hundreds of old largely unused alleyways, which were very useful in past times. With a minimal amount of cost I think they could be transformed into bikeways which could go some distance towards reducing road congestion and conflict between different transport technologies.

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...just how many people has Trudowe invited to enjoy a European side show??

PMjr plus a handful of new ministers (some of whom do not yet have keys to their offices)

Every provincial premier was invited (is there at least one that had the balls to decline?)

Territorial reps

Indian chiefs

City mayors

Opposition leaders and critics (for just what reason is Ellie-May going?)

keep the list going....

If we as a country can still keep functioning during the coming week, then we need to ask, do we need these people?

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Canada should move to power our entire grid by nuclear. Theres your green power climate change and infrastructure legacy right there in one package. And uranium is abundant domestically.

In stable areas, def not the west coast, I agree, but then there is the problem with what to do with the spent fuel. Then of course there is Ontario where they have moved away from nuclear and into much more expensive alternates. The alternate may be green but I have yet to find an accounting of the cost to the environment in the manufacturing process to produce the alternate power sources, then also of course the ongoing impact on the animals, insects, birds etc.

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If Canada, the second largest country by land mass on the planet, can't find a place for the tiny amount of waste a nuclear generating station produces then we're pathetic (entirely valid assumption). West coast of Canada is plenty stable, in my non engineer opinion. Zero radiation deaths after Japan's quake, and we're much more stable than that are we not? Clean, secure, domestic, efficient, proven, safe, modern energy source right under our nose for the taking. Heck put the first power plant in my 'backyard', sure beats those ugly useless windmills everybody is so gaga for.

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The west coast of bc is overdue for a major earthquake which in my opinion makes it a very bad location for a nuclear power plant and of course with it's abundance of hydro generated power, it has no need for nuclear power.

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Obama's nuclear play

Mon Nov 30, 2015 - EnergyBiz
by Allen Greenberg - Editor-in-chief

Here's a nice bit of irony:

James Hansen, the scientist who was first to raise the alarm about climate change, fueling calls to shut down coal-fired power plants, will later this week urge the expansion of nuclear power.

In other words, depending on how things work out, utilities that were forced to close down or convert their coal-powered operations because of Hansen's work, could soon find themselves thanking him for encouraging policymakers and regulators to approve plans to build new nuclear plants.

Hansen will issue his call in Paris, during the two-week climate conference that kicks off Monday. The conference is expected to draw some 20,000 attendees, including President Obama and 120 or so other world leaders.

The hope of the climate talks is to keep global temperatures from rising more than 2 degrees Celsius compared to pre-industrial levels. Few, however, expect the conference to deliver anything meaningful. That's because the pledges being made to cut greenhouse gas emissions are voluntary and are unlikely to be enough to stave off environmental catastrophe.

As in previous climate conferences, these talks pit the interests of developed countries such as the U.S. and China -- which have historically produced most of the CO2 behind global warming -- against developing nations such as India and Brazil.

If you were feeling the least bit optimistic about this conference, David MacKay of the University of Cambridge, a leading sustainable energy researcher, had this to say, based on the climate action plans submitted by some of the nations ahead the summit:

"Many of the pledges are just pledging what countries would have done out of pure self-interest anyway - so they're actually pledging nothing," he told German news outlet Deutsche Welle. "China, for example, pledged to reduce coal use compared with an absurd scenario where they would have polluted their whole country and had terrible health problems. So actually, what China is pledging to do is just consistent with self-interest -- reducing the health problems from coal use."

Still, something must be done, because otherwise we're talking about truly irreparable harm, including the collapse of the Greenland ice sheet. That, at least, is the considered assessment of some climate scientists -- Hansen no doubt among them.

Joined by several other top climate scientists, Hansen is expected to present research showing that renewables alone cannot realistically meet the goal of limiting global warming to 2 degrees C, and that a major expansion of nuclear power "is essential to avoid dangerous anthropogenic interference with the climate system."

While nuclear power is on the mitigation list for China, the U.S. and India, Hansen will call for more, including the deployment of light-water reactors.

Just as significantly, he and his fellow scientists will challenge environmental leaders to support their position.

As noted in a news release announcing the press conference, the Climate Action Network, which represents major environmental groups, "still insists despite all evidence to the contrary that `nuclear has no role to play in a fully decarbonized power sector.'"

"The anti-nuclear position of these environmental leaders is in fact causing unnecessary and severe harm to the environment and to the future of young people," Hansen and his fellow researchers say in their news announcement.

'Amid all of the fawning attention showered on wind and solar energy, nuclear power last year generated about 60 percent of the carbon-free electricity in the U.S.'


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