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Malcolm

Refugee Resettlement

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These are Syrians. The are of all religions and are certainly NOT all Muslim. This myth keeps being perpetuated. There are over 400,000 Christians among the refugees as well as several other religions. And yes SOME are Muslim.

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Interesting interview and in particular the question of where the money will come from from the Mayor of Halifax. Surely by now that should be in place.

Refugees with infectious diseases will not be denied entry into Canada: Health minister

Health Minister Jane Philpott speaks with CTV's Question Period on Nov. 29, 2015.

Published Sunday, November 29, 2015 9:54AM EST

Health Minister Jane Philpott says Syrian refugees with infectious diseases such as tuberculosis will not be denied entry to Canada.

Philpott told CTV’s Question Period that Syrian refugees bound for Canada who are found to have infectious diseases may face delayed entry until they are healthy enough to enter the country, but won’t be turned away.

“We would make sure they get appropriate treatment. It would not lead to a denial as a cause in itself of being able to be accepted as a refugee to Canada, but it may delay somebody’s travel,” said Philpott.

“And, of course, as people arrive in Canada, there will be further screening and we’ll make sure that everyone is healthy.”

Philpott, who worked as a medical doctor before entering politics, emphasized that most of the infectious diseases that Syrian refugees could have are “quite treatable.”

The minister said all Syrian refugees will undergo an “international medical examination” before travelling to Canada so that the government is fully aware of their health condition before entering the country. Officials will be looking for physical as well as mental health problems, according to Philpott. She said the government will make sure that the healthcare system is prepared to offer counselling services to Syrian refugees who need it.

“These people have experienced the very difficult circumstances of conflict in Syria,” said Philpott. “Having said that, my suspicion is that these people are incredibly resilient and courageous folk who have managed to endure these circumstances and we will be impressed by their resilience.”

As the government prepares to welcome tens of thousands Syrian refugees, Canada is facing a major family doctor shortage. According to Statistics Canada, 14.9 per cent of Canadians 12 or older -- about 4.5 million people -- did not have a regular doctor in 2014.

While Philpott admitted that the Canadian healthcare system is already stretched, she said believes it can handle the arrival of Syrian refugees. She said she has been “overwhelmed” by expressions of interest from healthcare providers and other Canadians to help refugees.

Speaking to Question Period, Halifax Mayor Mike Savage also acknowledged that municipal social systems are under pressure, but said that the resettlement of 25,000 refugees spread across the country is “manageable.” He emphasized the fact that no community will ever be 100 per cent ready for the arrival of hundreds or thousands of refugees, and that now is the time to act.

“I think this is something that is going to pay off, not only from a humanitarian and compassionate point of view but from a growth point of view within our communities, and I think most people understand that,” said Savage.

Despite the community will, Savage admits there are still questions about how the municipalities are going to pay for the influx of Syrian refugees.

“I think we need to know certainly where the money is going to come from, what money is available. I fully expect that provinces and also municipalities will have to look at their own budgets,” he said.

Both Savage and Kitchener Mayor Berry Vrbanovic said their communities are developing plans to address any areas of concern as the refugees begin to arrive. According to Vrbanovic, that could be as early as next month for Kitchener.

“My understanding is, at least in the December numbers, we’re likely to see more of the privately sponsored ones (refugees) coming forward.”

Vrbonovic will head to Ottawa this week for a forum at Rideau Hall on welcoming Syrian refugees. Gov. Gen. David Johnston will host the meeting on Tuesday with more than 100 leaders from the public and private sectors, as well as representatives from civil society, to “strengthen our national response to the Syrian crisis.”

Vrbanoic hopes the meeting will allow leaders to share ideas on how they can support Syrian refugees arriving in their communities.

“I think what we want to do is hear what are some of the best practice ideas from some of the other municipalities and community organizations from across the country, so we can adopt those and not reinvent the wheel.”

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Now we know where some of the billions are going.

Syrian refugee coordinator in Montreal to make $1,800 a day to welcome the newcomers to Canada
‎Today, ‎November ‎29, ‎2015, ‏‎29 minutes ago | Jason Magder, Postmedia Newshttp://feedproxy.google.com/~r/NP_Top_Stories/~3/0q7hhiFXEhE/syrian-refugee-coordinator-in-montreal-to-make-1800-a-day-to-welcome-the-newcomers-to-canada' title="Go to full article">

Michel Dorais was one of Montreal Mayor Denis Coderre’s top employees when he served as immigration minister. Now, he’ll head up the efforts to welcome thousands of Syrian refugees, at a rate of $1,800 per day.

Peter McCabe / Canadian PressMontreal Mayor Denis Coderre speaks to the press on September 14, 2015.

Dorais, deputy minister of immigration and citizenship from 1998 to 2004, was appointed to be the city’s official co-ordinator for the effort to welcome Syrian refugees Wednesday. The appointment was made during the closed-door portion of the executive committee meeting, but the details of the hiring were made public to councillors shortly afterwards.

Coderre served as immigration minister as part of the Liberal government from 2002 to 2003.

The city will pay Dorais up to $110,000 over a three-month period. His appointment and his salary was approved by the executive committee on Wednesday, even though the appointment is retroactive to Nov. 19. The salary was justified partly because it includes vacation pay and a compensation for not being part of the city’s pension plan.

Guillaume Lavoie, the finance critic for opposition Projet Montréal, said the hiring shows a lack of transparency, and he questioned why Dorais has to be paid such a high salary.

“We need to do things in the right order,” Lavoie said. “First, (Coderre) should have described the challenges that the city was facing, and then explain why he needs outside council.

Lavoie said the appointment shows that Coderre does not have confidence in the thousands of employees currently working for the city.

“We have thousands of very qualified employees at city hall. The idea that not one of them could do the job is ridiculous,” Lavoie said.

“While no one can question the expertise of Mr. Dorais, it’s very hard to tell the public that there was no one who could have done the job.”

Dorais has been hired for three months of work, heading up the efforts to bring in Syrian refugees to the city. Thousands are expected to begin coming to the city starting in the next few weeks.

They’ll need access to clothing, health care and lodging, as well as schooling for children. Catherine Maurice, a spokesperson for Coderre, said in the next three months the work to welcome the refugees will be intense.

She said Dorais has extensive expertise working with refugees and is the best person for the job.

“He acted to welcome hundreds of Kosovar refugees when he was deputy minister; we could not have found someone with better expertise,” Maurice said.

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The city will pay Dorais up to $110,000 over a three-month period. His appointment and his salary was approved by the executive committee on Wednesday, even though the appointment is retroactive to Nov. 19. The salary was justified partly because it includes vacation pay and a compensation for not being part of the city’s pension plan.

AAAhhhh .. good to know ..after a 3 month period, they need vacation pay...must be strenuous work!!!

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The city will pay Dorais up to $110,000 over a three-month period. His appointment and his salary was approved by the executive committee on Wednesday, even though the appointment is retroactive to Nov. 19. The salary was justified partly because it includes vacation pay and a compensation for not being part of the city’s pension plan.

AAAhhhh .. good to know ..after a 3 month period, they need vacation pay...must be strenuous work!!!

so he would earn almost 1/2 a million if employed for the entire year. Pretty rich.............. but I guess it is the tax payer's money and there is lots of that out there. :biggrin1:

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Gol'darnit anyway, folks, who would be the first to observe that the government failed to hire those experts which actually have done the work and have tons of experience in handling these very situations regarding immigrants?

Do you all want a cheap, off-the-street bunch of hacks to carry out the responsibilities you all were fulminating fear just a short while back that the government weren't doing the job well enough?

What's it to be? Experts to protect us from all those terrorists you say can come in, or the above alternative who rubberstamp applications to get everyone in by the end of December?

Sheesh.

Color me confused about all this criticism out of both sides of the keyboard...

Please see post #38, below.

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I get your point Don but on the other side of things there are a lot of us freely putting in as much or more time, as well as our own money, to make this happen. So yes, we want the best people for the job but it can kinda rankle.

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Hi Defcon

I understand your fears of what can happen as a result of the proliferation of the Islamic faith. Here are a couple of things to consider.

Firstly by far the greatest number of victims of Islamic violence are Muslim. Obviously many, and I contend the vast majority of Muslims are in opposition to what the Islamic terrorists stand for.

Our greatest allies in the fight against terrorism are the Muslims who are opposed to terrorism. If we start isolating the Islamic community we will be weakening our position within that community.

I would also add that the problem will be in Canada whether or not we take in Islamic refugees or not. Terrorism is a world wide phenomena and if some terrorist in Syria wants to see terrorist action in Canada then ultimately it will happen. This will become more and more the case as they gain in sophistication and gain a larger arsenal with which to carry out their attacks.

As I've said, ultimately the only way to win the war is by reaching out to the hearts and minds of the Islamic community. This is not going to end terrorism any time soon, but if we want to see a better world for the generations to come then we have to start building bridges now and this seems like a good place to start.

If we respond to the hatred displayed by the terrorists and to their fear of western culture with our own hatred and fear, then we know that in the end hatred and fear will be what we are left with.

Cheers

Greg

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From the press release:"The appointment was made during the closed-door portion of the executive committee meeting, "

At that salary, I am troubled by old boy network patronage.

From Don's post: "Experts to protect us from all those terrorists you say can come in,"

I think the concerns expressed on this forum centered on screening, not greeting the refugees once they get here.

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so he would earn almost 1/2 a million if employed for the entire year.

Hey, the president of the University of Alberta makes twice that

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st27;

I re-read the posting more carefully and see that I launched before getting to '0'... I can see from where the criticisms regarding the appointment are coming.

One should always have dinner first, then post!

I'll leave the entry for continuity, but draw a line through it, just to keep me honest!

Cheers -

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Hi Greg

I’m going to respond line by line to keep my response properly directed.

"Firstly by far the greatest number of victims of Islamic violence are Muslim. Obviously many, and I contend the vast majority of Muslims are in opposition to what the Islamic terrorists stand for.”

I think the point you’re making is accurate, but it’s equally important to consider the reasons for the ongoing inter-sect slaughter. As I’m sure you’re aware, the Koran is subject to interpretations that are called the ‘Hadith’. The never ending fight to the death between Sunni & Shia for instance is a product of different interpretations of the same books; one guy is a dog deserving of beheading for holding to a particular interpretation while his would be oppressor sees himself as the defender of his god’s true word.

Well, I think all this ‘stuff’ is the product of the crazy, even insane behaviour that flows regularly from the members of the faith regardless and I don’t think it’s wrong for me to wonder what is motivating my Country to fuel the Islamic fires already burning within by adding 25000 more logs to the mix?

“Our greatest allies in the fight against terrorism are the Muslims who are opposed to terrorism. If we start isolating the Islamic community we will be weakening our position within that community.”

But are they opposed to Sharia and the other contentious tenets of Islam? If not, they’re part of the problem. Seriously, other than for trying to figure out how to use use everything we have to offer to their full advantage and complaining it’s never enough, I’m not sure that ‘infidels’ can hold any kind of ‘position’ within the purposely isolating Islamic community.

“I would also add that the problem will be in Canada whether or not we take in Islamic refugees or not. Terrorism is a world wide phenomena and if some terrorist in Syria wants to see terrorist action in Canada then ultimately it will happen. This will become more and more the case as they gain in sophistication and gain a larger arsenal with which to carry out their attacks.”

I have to repeat my answer from above; why add fuel to the fire?

“As I've said, ultimately the only way to win the war is by reaching out to the hearts and minds of the Islamic community. This is not going to end terrorism any time soon, but if we want to see a better world for the generations to come then we have to start building bridges now and this seems like a good place to start.”

Everyone pushing for the immigrants etc. seems to want to forget the fact the West has had its arms open to the growing and largely self-isolating distinctly Muslim community for the last forty years. Forty years in, the Christian lead, the Golden Rule and the like we’ve been following is now bearing fruit that’s easy to taste. Effectively, our need to be nice has led to our becoming engaged in a global civil war with an enemy that hides in plain sight amongst us and makes his plans for our collective futures very clear. Recent remarks by Mo mar Kaddafi and the King of Arabia in respect of migrant Muslims, Germany, money and mosques supports my feeling that inclusion is going to be the downfall of our modern society.

“If we respond to the hatred displayed by the terrorists and to their fear of western culture with our own hatred and fear, then we know that in the end hatred and fear will be what we are left with.”

I have been encouraged to be an accepting, cordial Canadian for the last four + decades now by people pushing the Christian dogma. As a God fearing Christian I followed the lead of my Church etc. too, but now have serious reservations with respect to the path my Country has been following and for its future. In that respect, I’m no longer willing to sit back and say nothing as this demonstrably ill considered policy continues to unfold.

I’m reminded of a conversation I once had with a self-proclaiming Christian woman at an illegal blockade put on by Natives. This lady saw Christianity as the force that drove her to do God’s work and accordingly, God had apparently directed her to attend the protest on behalf of said Natives. Anyway, Ethiopia too was in distress at the time and along with her current cause, she was advocating for Canada to declare Ethiopia as unsuitable for continuing human habitation, forcefully close it down and then move all its people to Canada. Not knowing how to respond to this insanity I simply asked how that sort of move would be paid for. She lost it, began to cry and wailed on about the need to forget about money and just do the Christian thing. I wasn’t surprised to learn the woman was employed as a community social worker.

With respect to the above, I’m fearful that the same force driving Christians to act without consideration for the consequences of their actions, African missionary activity for instance, is apparently also responsible for the current drive? It’s disturbing, but many on this Board purposely choose to ignore information presented that’s contrary to the present scheme in global migration, which means all of society is being placed at risk to serve the Christian ambition. In my view, the Christian drive to force everyone to love everyone else is every bit as dangerous as the ISIS drivel.

All the best...

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Hi Defcon

I'll respond the same way by quoting you prior to my response.

I think the point you’re making is accurate, but it’s equally important to consider the reasons for the ongoing inter-sect slaughter. As I’m sure you’re aware, the Koran is subject to interpretations that are called the ‘Hadith’. The never ending fight to the death between Sunni & Shia for instance is a product of different interpretations of the same books; one guy is a dog deserving of beheading for holding to a particular interpretation while his would be oppressor sees himself as the defender of his god’s true word.

Well, I think all this ‘stuff’ is the product of the crazy, even insane behaviour that flows regularly from the members of the faith regardless and I don’t think it’s wrong for me to wonder what is motivating my Country to fuel the Islamic fires already burning within by adding 25000 more logs to the mix?”

I am sure that everyone on this forum finds those ideas crazy and insane as well as repugnant. However what it boils down to again is the all to human desire for individual power that flows from tribal power. We don't have to go very far back to see what our European ancestors did to the indigenous people of the Americas or to our history of slavery. In a relatively short span of human history we now find the views of our recent ancestors to be crazy, insane and repugnant.

I suggest that the motivation for my country is not to fuel the Islamic fires but simply to help those who are in desperate need, and ultimately to be a positive force in making the world a better place.

"But are they opposed to Sharia and the other contentious tenets of Islam? If not, they’re part of the problem. Seriously, other than for trying to figure out how to use use everything we have to offer to their full advantage and complaining it’s never enough, I’m not sure that ‘infidels’ can hold any kind of ‘position’ within the purposely isolating Islamic community."

When I lived in Montreal as a non-French speaker I moved to the English ghetto on the west island. Of course when people move here they will move into communities where they have a connection. That is true of anyone moving here. We should hardly be surprised.

Also you are assuming that they are all users and complainers and I don't think that is fair. I haven't known many Muslims, but the ones I have met certainly didn't fit that stereotype. Also of course, non-terrorists can hold positions within the Islamic community and of course they can have influence.

With respect to the above, I’m fearful that the same force driving Christians to act without consideration for the consequences of their actions, African missionary activity for instance, is apparently also responsible for the current drive? It’s disturbing, but many on this Board purposely choose to ignore information presented that’s contrary to the present scheme in global migration, which means all of society is being placed at risk to serve the Christian ambition. In my view, the Christian drive to force everyone to love everyone else is every bit as dangerous as the ISIS drivel.”

I'll just quote this paragraph but it is actually a response the whole last section of your post.

Firstly, it is hardly just Christians who are pushing this and I am also sure that there are many Christians opposed to it. It is simply about trying to do the right thing. You and I simply disagree what the right thing is and we simply argue our own POV.

Yes Global migration has caused problems but it has also brought benefits. However, I agree that people are tribal, (talk to anyone who has been through an airline merger), but as we continue to rub shoulders with one another we gradually become less so. I contend that the most dangerous thing that we can do is to continue to isolate ourselves from other tribes. Yes, the Muslims in general, like everyone else move into Muslim communities, but they are still going to be heavily influenced by the culture that is all around.

If we just give up and say that the problems are too great and continue the lives of splendid isolation that we were fortunate enough to be born into, then ultimately somewhere down the road we are going to have far greater problems than we have now. However, aside from that I still maintain that western culture suggests that we should in general do the right thing, which I believe in this case is to welcome into our country those who have fled their homeland in order to keep themselves and their families alive and give them a chance at far better life here.

I;m not sure how you see African Missionary work being responsible for this situation. Are you suggesting that providing food and education for homeless young women, or working with AIDs patients etc is a problem. Frankly, I don't understand the point you are making.

You refer to, “ the Christian drive to force everyone to love everyone else”. I wish that had an inkling of an idea how to force someone to love anyone else. :) The Christian idea, which is hardly unique to Christianity, is to follow the Golden Rule and hopefully influence others to do the same. Regardless of how poorly any of us do it, the idea is to love unselfishly as opposed to it all being about looking after number one or loving selfishly. If that is living dangerously the I am prepared to accept that.

Cheers

Greg

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Maybe we should question some of their numbers. It says that the birth rate amongst Muslims, (it is unclear whether he is talking about France only or world wide), is 8.1. This Wiki article gives a very different number. (3.1)

The primary point seems to be that the Muslims are having more children than non-Muslims. Whose fault is that?

In addition to that here is the last statement from the wiki article. "A 2015 study found that approximately 10.2 million Muslim converted to Christianity. The increasingly large Ex-Muslim communities in the Western world that adhere to no religion have also been well documented."

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GDR: re Muslims having more children. That is only natural when you live in a very poor country, no access to birth control or need the extra hands to work to support the family in the never ending circle-more children=more mouths to feed=more hands needed to earn/produce the food=need for more children.

What we need to do is help them to break that circle.

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GDR: re Muslims having more children. That is only natural when you live in a very poor country, no access to birth control or need the extra hands to work to support the family in the never ending circle-more children=more mouths to feed=more hands needed to earn/produce the food=need for more children.

What we need to do is help them to break that circle.

I can't disagree with that but part of the point of the you tube link that Defcon posted was that even in developed countries such as our own the birth rate is higher for Muslim families. However again - whose fault is that?

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I suspect the same can be said for any group of new immigrants no matter their religion with the commonality of being from what we consider a developing country. I would expect that the need to procreate would only moderate in generation 2.

Then of course there are those who beat the drum and encourage new members of our population to procreate.

http://www.macleans.ca/uncategorized/why-its-time-for-canada-to-grow-up/.

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Based on the following story it appears that the only sure thing is that the refugees will arrive on aircraft leased from Royal Jordanian Airlines

Immigration Minister John McCallum unsure when Syrian refugees arriving Government has only a month to get 10,000 Syrian refugees to Canada to meet self-imposed deadline

By Susan Lunn, CBC News Posted: Nov 30, 2015 7:40 PM ET Last Updated: Nov 30, 2015 7:51 PM ET

Young Syrian refugees gather around Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship John McCallum, second from left, Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan and Health Minister Jane Philpott, right, during a tour the Zaatari refugee camp, near Mafraq, Jordan, on Sunday. (Paul Chiasson/Canadian Press)

The federal immigration minister still can not say when the first plane will arrive with government-sponsored refugees — and now he only has a month left to get 10,000 Syrians to Canada by year's end.

John McCallum, along with the health and defence ministers, travelled to Amman, Jordan on the weekend, to visit the biggest refugee camp in the region and see Canada's processing centre.

Canada will lease planes from Royal Jordanian Airlines to transport Syrian refugees to Canada

But McCallum could not say when the first plane will arrive.

"We want the first airplane to come and then be followed quite quickly by other airplanes. So we want to have a certain number built up before we begin the process," McCallum told reporters in a conference call last night.

He added its possible the first plane could arrive within a week, but he wasn't sure of an exact date.

Q1752_2500kbps_852x480_2679494959.jpg
Play Media

How will Syrian refugees be resettled in Canada?0:21

McCallum says the Jordanian government has been very supportive of Canada's efforts to bring 25,000 Syrian refugees to the country by next February.

And he said the airline is also being co-operative.

"Those airplanes will be available to us as and when they're needed, in the number we require. So it's a very flexible arrangement, which is very advantageous for Canada," McCallum said.

Number of permanent visas issued unclear

McCallum could also not provide an update on the number of permanent resident visas issued so far, beyond the previous number of 928 that he told reporters last week. He said the media will receive a briefing soon, when those details are known.

Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship John McCallum chats at a refugee processing centre in Amman, Jordan, on Sunday with members of a Syrian family hoping to be approved for passage to Canada. (Paul Chiasson/Canadian Press)

There is now just a month before the federal government has promised to identify 25,000 refugees, with 10,000 of them arriving here by Dec. 31, 2015. Of that number, only 2,000 will be government-sponsored refugees.

The Liberal government had initially promised during the election campaign to have all of those refugees in Canada by the end of the year, but it has since decided to slow down the process.

When asked whether he believed his government could even hit the new, longer deadline, McCallum said he believes it can.

"It remains our firm objective and are working very hard to make it happen," McCallum said.

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Malcolm, the high birth rate has a few roots. The first is that it is a Muslim duty to bring more Muslims into the world. For this reason in all the Muslim countries vasectomies etc are illegal. While poverty is an issue in some Islamic countries it is not the reason for high birth rates (ie. to work the farm).

Here is one example:

British example from the BBC (lots of good parts, including the one one where the young man explains that Sharia is part of Islam and always exists even if only within the family unit):

Like all videos or news it has an agenda but the comments of the cleric are undeniable.

The issue, most certainly, is integration. However, the difference between Muslim immigrants and other immigrants is that the vast majority of non Muslim immigrants did not (and do not) define themselves based on their religion. Muslims MUST marry another Muslim and even the most moderate follow this practice (or the one they marry must convert). There have been claims that it was Frances fault for the attacks because they 'exclude' Muslims. But the issue in Europe is that the Muslim exclude themselves by refusing to integrate, by placing their religious beliefs above all else and by failing to accept the the society that they have moved to (or were born into).

I think Canada should accept the Syrian refugees and the gov't seems to be in tune to the public's safety concerns. But in this situation and with all regular immigration we should be VERY clear as to our (Canadians) expectations of the immigrants. The first is the acknowledgment that immigration can and does benefit a country and both peoples IF it enriches the host nation. In other words, both sides benefit and the sum is greater than the parts. It should be made clear to prospective immigrants that it is expected that they will follow the laws of the country as well as the traditions of the culture and the liberal democracy they are moving to. In the case of Muslim immigrants (but others cultures as well) the concept that women are equals with full rights of participation (which has been fought for for the past 100 years) should supersede their religious/cultural beliefs - as just one example.

But they have to want to integrate and it is my belief that a majority do not want to. They want to live in Europe or Canada but expect that their religious and cultural requirements be met at the expense of the nation they are living in. The situation in Europe (Belgium, Holland, Germany France, part of the UK) demonstrates it too well and I think most Canadian do not see it because they do not live it - yet. A good friend of mine is Dutch and grew up with and went to school with 3 close Turkish/Muslim friends. They went to university together and 'sowed' their wild oats together (his words :) ) After moving to Turkey to fly he ended up marrying a Turkish woman, which is where the issue reared its head. His friends were incredibly upset that he had married a Muslim and, more importantly, that a Muslim might marry a non-Muslim. (it is rare in Turkey to see inter-marriage and while there it was a HUGE issue for him). But what floored him is that these were friends of his, who were born and raised in Holland, yet their religious beliefs were so strong that they ended their friendship with him. I agree that this is one, anecdotal, example but I don't believe it to be rare.

In any case, in my opinion, it is integration that is the issue and without it we will have more of the culture classes that we are seeing.

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