Paris Attacks

[dagger]

People keep mentioning leadership, but I suspect we're conflating decisiveness and confidence with good-decision making. They don't go hand in hand. Bush the Younger, egged on by Cheney the Mad, invaded Iraq without a plan. Once they had rolled up the Iraqi Army, the next several years became a matte of "Now what?". Then there was the invasion of Afghanistan, where there was something more of a plan, just not the balls to see it through, and here, I'm not only pointing the finger at Obama, but also Stephen Harper, who took our forces out of that country before the job was done. Going back in history, Nixon was decisive on the Vietnam War, as was Lyndon Johnson and John Kennedy before him. But the military option was always limited - it's almost always limited. In the end, the Americans lost Vietnam militarily because they had lost it politically. No one supported their South Vietnamese stooge governments. You probably have to go back to the Second World War to see a military victory with a full-fledged recovery plan, but I have to wonder whether the Marshall Plan would have come to pass were not the Soviets in control of Eastern Europe and a fast rebuild of the Western European countries was urgent for strategic reasons.

So don't get sucked into this whole look tough thing. Dealing with the situation with ISIS in Iraq/Syria requires smarts more than outward displays of bellicosity. As Teddy Roosevelt espoused, speak softly and carry a big stick.

So you want to bomb ISIS back into the stone age (from which they seem to have sprung). Okay, what's the plan? The French drilled the crap out of the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa today, and probably killed three or four civilians for every ISIS militant that died. That will make everyone support you. I mean the way the Syrians have responded to Assad bombing the crap out of their cities and villages has been to flee to the West. You might want to win friends instead of making new converts for ISIS. But beyond that, what if you actually batter ISIS into total submission. Who fills the vacuum that will be created? Maybe Al-Nusra (the next largest Syrian Sunni militia, and aligned with Al-Quada. Well that's a good plan, isn't it? Or the Iranians, or Hezbollah, or the Russians? Syria is a f@qing mosaic map of hell, and if you dabble in it, you might clean the clock of one enemy, and make two others.

Militarily, there is nothing more important than training Iraqi troops to stand and fight well instead of retreating when someone blows a feather their way. Our six jets won't make a dent on ISIS that the Americans, Brits and French can't do just as well. I can site you chapter and verse from professional soldiers that making countries out of the fragments there - and expelling the radical Sunnis, the Iranian Revolutionary Guards and Hezbollah would at least provide a good prerequisite for a peaceful solution. But it will take a decade or more to accomplish.

In the meantime, I hope for some smart leadership, but fear Americans are going to f@q it up by electing a moron as the next president, someone who will conflate bellicosity with a real strategy. I'm all for admitting 25,000 refugees. I have a litany of reasons, but the one on top of my list right now is that ISIS, with its bombings and terror, hopes to turn the west against the refugees, thus proving we are anti-Islam. In fact, we will be taking Christians, Yezidis, Kurds, Shias and Sunnis, and probably atheists, too, and we have the luxury which the Europeans don't have to pick and screen every human being that wants to come to Canada before they get here. I say give ISIS the finger, and make Canada stronger and richer.

[dagger]

Closer to home: this is the sort of crap we do need to guard against. I hope the perp. is caught and punished to the full extent of the law!

Peterborough mosque set ablaze, police investigate suspected arson Fire marshal has ruled blaze set deliberately, police say

CBC News Posted: Nov 15, 2015 2:37 PM ET Last Updated: Nov 15, 2015 2:37 PM ET

Peterborough police are investigating a suspected case of arson at the city's only mosque.

The fire broke out at the Kawartha Muslim Religious Association's mosque around 11 p.m. Saturday, police say. It's unclear exactly how much damage was done to the building or whether anyone was inside 784 Park Hill Rd. at the time.

The fire marshal's office has already investigated and ruled that the blaze was set deliberately.

Police are still investigating and say they will provide an update shortly

​

A crowd-funding campaign has raised $23,000 today to help cover the cost of repairs.

https://fundrazr.com/campaigns/4144T7/sh/f5IDu8

[dagger]

A key question in assessing the risks of the present situation is whether the French are being singled out by ISIS for a reason, and that other countries - noticeably North America and Asia - are not exposed to the same extent. I say this to underscore a view that while we may have an attack or two of a much lesser magnitude than Paris, the risk isn't equivalent to what the French in particular face,

Here are a couple of assessments that take that point of view.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opinion/could-paris-happen-here.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&_r=0

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-islamic-state-targeted-france-20151115-story.html

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/francois-hollands-blames-isis-for-the-paris-massacre-and-says-its-an-act-of-war-hes-right/

http://www.businessinsider.com/paris-attacks-why-terrorists-target-france-2015-11

[DEFCON]

Regarding the article posted by JO; it’s the feel good stuff that baits people by playing on their desires to be nice.

The article claims; “If I sit quietly and let people vent their out-dated beliefs, I’d be concerned that it might encourage others to keep quiet when they are made to feel uncomfortable with the fear and xenophobia expressed by others. The fact is: these sentiments are not cool…they are not acceptable. If you post your racist sentiments on my social media pages, I will respond forcefully every time….because it is 2015.”

Although nice, this persons sentiments are down right dangerous in the present circumstance.

I see everyone plastering the JO article with ‘likes’ but not a one on Kip’s, which is by far, the more important one?

[boestar]

In looking at how this whole situation started in the first place, one would think the US should get out of the practice of supplying and training the people they end up fighting against.

Had the US not supplied weapons and training to the Rebels perhaps the ISIS threat would not have grown so quickly.

It seems history would show that this same process has bitten the US more times than not.

Now we drop bombs on them and they retaliate with terrorist attacks. then we drop more bombs on them and they retaliate with more attacks... See where this is going. The escalation will continue until ISIS has the resources for a Large Scale attack "somewhere" in the west.

Has no one here or anywhere never been told to NOT POKE A BEAR WITH A STICK. Don't piss it off. If you want it gone kill it. Dropping bombs isn't working.

time for a new plan

[deicer]

Imperialism doesn't work that way, does it?

[inchman]

ISIS can get people into Canada without refugee immigration. As a matter of fact, I think that the current environment provides a heightened level of awareness and that the risk is lower today than it was in the spring.

There have been terrorist groups in Canada for many years. Some succeed in their (fortunately, relatively small) efforts to date. I don't think that that will change, but the moment a refugee steps foot on the property, the next attack will no doubt be blamed on the government's immigration policy.

The easiest way to get someone on your side is to treat them the way that you would hope to be treated. The opposite is true, as well. I think that the Paris attacks were more of an extension of the riots from a few years ago, with a heightened level of violence... a result of marginalization, poverty and persecution.Clearly, beyond the fact that they obviously were scheduled, they were just a bunch of thug attacks, with no real organization. Even the suicide-murder-bombing was completely botched.

If we continue to paint all Muslims with the same brush, and continue to treat these groups with disdain they will do what comes naturally to any human.... they will lash back.

ISIS is less about religion and more about power and money. They simply use religion to activate the troops.

One interesting line from the article quoted by DEFCON is We’ll need to get acquainted with the Islamic State’s intellectual genealogy if we are to react in a way that will not strengthen it, but instead help it self-immolate in its own excessive zeal.

The best way to sustain hate is to face it with more hate.

Just saw a show on CTV with the former chair of the Immigration and Refugee Board who described the process of bringing refugees to Canada in these circumstances. First, he described the difference between a million refugees pouring across the border and a few hundred at a time arriving in a controlled fashion.

First, the UN does a rough security screening to make sure they meet the definition of refugee,

then a Canadian screening officer interviews them,

then a security review takes place by CBSA, CSIS and the RCMP.

Almost all of the people involved in the airlift will be people who have been in refugee camps for 4 years and these people are well documented. Even sleepers don't sleep for 4 years.

The majority coming will be single-mother families with their children because Assad killed the men.

We won't be taking people that are already in Europe, so it will be very controlled. He described the people coming as being "extremely low risk".

It's time to stop the fear mongering. The refugees coming to Canada will not be wearing grenades around their waists and Kalashnikovs strapped to their legs.

[Trader]

The blog post DRAMATIC MUSINGS is the perfect example of screaming racism to shut up debate. You can hold an opinion against immigration and NOT be a racist!

Dagger, no doubt the Americans will continue their bellicosity, regardless of who is in office. They won't get elected unless they, at minimum, portray themselves to be 'tough'. The issue that now exist (the ones that scare the crap out of the Arab governments) is that there are power vacuums all across the Middle East. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Somalia and now Yemen (with Lebenon not having a functioning government for months and rapidly falling apart). In EVERY one of these countries Al Qaida, Al Shabab, ISIS or some other form of militancy has grown and are expanding. The West (well, the Americans primarily) destroyed the dictators that held these countries together. Saddam kept Iraq in peace for decades and while there were episodes such as the gassing of the Kurds he managed to keep the various religious groups from killing each other. Now the Sunnis, Shia, Kurds and other groups are killing each other daily. The exact same situation exists in Syria now, Somalia etc. But the West had to have 'democracy' and the dictators (most of whom attained power with American and the Wests blessing) had to go.

The 'military' in these countries have no desire to fight! The Iraqi Army has all but folded and refuses to fight. It won't change either. Tribal relations are more important than anything else in this part of the world and given a choice between the Iraqi Army and their own tribe (and religious sect) the army always loses. The American found this out slowly and much too late.

Now we are stuck with a Middle East where more than half the population lives in places with no government (at least no effective gov't) and war.

[Guest]

A key question in assessing the risks of the present situation is whether the French are being singled out by ISIS for a reason, and that other countries - noticeably North America and Asia - are not exposed to the same extent. I say this to underscore a view that while we may have an attack or two of a much lesser magnitude than Paris, the risk isn't equivalent to what the French in particular face,

Here are a couple of assessments that take that point of view.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opinion/could-paris-happen-here.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&_r=0

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-islamic-state-targeted-france-20151115-story.html

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/francois-hollands-blames-isis-for-the-paris-massacre-and-says-its-an-act-of-war-hes-right/

http://www.businessinsider.com/paris-attacks-why-terrorists-target-france-2015-11

Sadly it seems that Isis is not as convinced:

Islamic State threatens attack on Washington, other countries

• Local

by Canadian Press

Posted Nov 16, 2015 7:57 am MST

Last Updated Nov 16, 2015 at 7:10 am MST

Ahmed Tolba and Lin Noueihed, Reuters

Islamic State warned in a new video on Monday that countries taking part in air strikes against Syria would suffer the same fate as France, and threatened to attack in Washington.

The video, which appeared on a site used by Islamic State to post its messages, begins with news footage of the aftermath of Friday’s Paris shootings in which at least 129 people were killed.

The message to countries involved in what it called the “crusader campaign” was delivered by a man dressed in fatigues and a turban, and identified in subtitles as Al Ghareeb the Algerian.

“We say to the states that take part in the crusader campaign that, by God, you will have a day, God willing, like France’s and by God, as we struck France in the center of its abode in Paris, then we swear that we will strike America at its center in Washington,” the man said.

It was not immediately possible to verify the authenticity of the video, which purports to be the work of Islamic State fighters in the Iraqi province of Salahuddine, north of Baghdad.

The French government has called the Paris attacks an act of war and said it would not end its air strikes against Islamic State in Syria and Iraq.

French fighter jets launched their biggest raids in Syria to date on Sunday targeting the Islamic State’s stronghold in the city of Raqqa. The operation was carried out in coordination with U.S. forces.

Police raided homes of suspected Islamist militants across France overnight following the Paris attacks.

“Al Ghareeb the Algerian” also warned Europe in the video that more attacks were coming.

“I say to the European countries that we are coming, coming with booby traps and explosives, coming with explosive belts and (gun) silencers and you will be unable to stop us because today we are much stronger than before,” he said.

Apparently referring to international talks to end the Syrian war, another man identified in the video as Al Karrar the Iraqi tells French President Francois Hollande “we have decided to negotiate with you in the trenches and not in the hotels.”

​

[Guest]

BBC Update: Multiple arrests in raids across France

‎Today, ‎November ‎16, ‎2015, ‏‎24 minutes ago

A total of 23 people have been arrested and weapons seized in a series of raids targeting Islamist militants across France, officials say, following Friday's attacks in Paris.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34830233

[dagger]

BBC Update: Multiple arrests in raids across France

‎Today, ‎November ‎16, ‎2015, ‏‎24 minutes ago

A total of 23 people have been arrested and weapons seized in a series of raids targeting Islamist militants across France, officials say, following Friday's attacks in Paris.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34830233

Overwhelmingly home grown, not only in France but also in Belgium. The Belgians have a serious problem. Brussels has a nickname of the Jihadi capital of Europe. One of its districts is almost ungovernable.

[Guest]

Most may be home grown but not all and it would seem that all are suplied and motivated by ISIS.

Passport found near Paris suicide bomber shows few security checks exist for migrants in the Balkans

‎Today, ‎November ‎16, ‎2015, ‏‎17 minutes ago | Dusan Stojanovic, The Associated Press

BELGRADE, Serbia — The focus on a Syrian passport found near the body of a suicide bomber in the Paris attacks highlights an uncomfortable reality: European authorities are completing few checks on the hundreds of thousands of people moving across their territory fleeing war and poverty.

Paris prosecutor’s office said on Monday that the man who blew himself up outside the national soccer stadium was found with a Syrian passport with the name Ahmad Al Mohammad, a 25-year-old born in Idlib. It said fingerprints from the attacker match those of someone who passed through Greece in October.

Besides Greece, the passport was registered in October in Serbia and Croatia, all three countries on the corridor that crosses the Balkans and is known for lax controls and ease in obtaining transit documents. The owner was allowed to proceed because he passed what is essentially the only test in place — he had no international arrest warrant against him, police in the states said.

It was not clear whether the passport was real or fake, but trafficking in fake Syrian passports has increased as hundreds of thousands of people try to get refugee status, the chief of the European Union border agency Frontex has said.

Most of those who enter countries on the so-called Balkan corridor for migrants — Greece, Macedonia, Serbia and Croatia — are registered with authorities.

Their data are checked against Interpol records, and their fingerprints and photos are taken. But, many people tell officials that they’ve lost their identity papers, and they can give false names and other information, including their country of origin.

A large majority of migrants declare themselves as Syrians from the war-torn country, although they have no documents to prove it, Serbian police say. Syrian refugees have a better chance of getting asylum in Germany than those classified as economic migrants from Afghanistan, Iraq or Pakistan.

Greek Migration Policy Ministry via APA document issued to 25-year old Ahmad Almohammad, holder of a Syrian passport found near a dead assailant in the scene of a Paris attack Friday.

In Serbia, some 490,000 migrants have passed through this year, and many say they don’t have documents — making it impossible to check for terrorist connections or criminal histories, to verify their backgrounds, Serbian officials said Sunday. There are no recorded cases of people being turned away after random checks anywhere in the Balkan migrant corridor.

That may be because the corridor states want migrants to pass through quickly, without getting stuck in their territory for a long time before reaching rich EU states such as Germany, Sweden or France.

“No one can know for certain where they come from, their true identity or if their documents are genuine,” Serbian labour minister Aleksandar Vulin said. “The Paris suspects have not been registered anywhere as terrorists, so Serbia could not have known that they represent a danger.”

Frontex spokeswoman Ewa Moncure told The Associated Press that “among some 500,000 people, you will find some with false documents.”

“There is always a certain percentage of false Syrian passports and identity documents revealed on the Greek border,” she said.

The holder of the passport found next to the bomber’s body is registered as entering Greece on Oct. 3, Greek officials said, adding that the passport owner entered the country through Leros, one of the eastern Aegean islands that tens of thousands have been using as a gateway into the European Union.

Carl Court / Getty ImagesA Greek police officer shouts at migrants to join a queue at the Moria processing centre on the island of Lesbos on November 15, 2015.

The owner of the passport then formally requested asylum in Serbia Oct. 7, according to a Serbian police statement. The document allowed him three days to pass through the country on his way to Croatia. Police did not give a name, identifying the passport’s owner only as A.A.

The passport-holder entered Croatia from Serbia on Oct. 8, Croatian police spokeswoman Helena Biocic said Sunday. The owner was not flagged as suspicious and then proceeded to Hungary and Austria.

The passport was found after Friday’s attack on France’s national stadium, next to the body of one of three suicide bombers who blew themselves nearby. In all, 129 people were killed in Paris in the violence, the worst in France in decades. Authorities said three teams of attackers were involved in the gun and bomb attacks on the stadium, a concert hall and Paris cafes.

With files from Jovana Gec in Belgrade, Serbia, and Monika Scislowska in Warsaw, Poland.

[Guest]

This is of course not the first time that extremists have targeted innocents in Europe.

Top News | Mon May 16, 2011 2:04pm BST

Related: UK

Timeline - Worst IRA bomb attacks on mainland Britain

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/05/16/uk-britain-security-bombings-idUKTRE74F31Q20110516

Here is a timeline of some of the worst bomb attacks on mainland Britain by Irish dissident groups in the last 35 years.

February 1974 - Coach carrying soldiers and families in northern England is bombed by the Irish Republican Army (IRA). Twelve people killed, 14 hurt.

October-November 1974 - Wave of IRA bombs in British pubs kills 28 people and wounds more than 200.

July 1982 - Two IRA bomb attacks on soldiers in London's royal parks kill 11 people and wound 50.

December 1983 - IRA bomb at Harrods department store kills six.

October 1984 - Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's cabinet narrowly escapes IRA bomb that kills five people at Brighton hotel during Conservative Party's annual conference.

September 1989 - Bomb at Royal Marines Music School in Deal, southeast England, kills 11 and wounds 22.

February 1990 - Explosion at Army recruitment centre in Leicester. Two wounded.

May 1990 - Seven wounded by blast at Army Educational Service headquarters in London suburb of Eltham.

May 1990 - One soldier is killed and another wounded by car bomb in Wembley.

June 1990 - Soldier is shot dead at train station in Lichfield.

February 1991 - IRA comes close to killing Prime Minister John Major and key cabinet members in a mortar attack on Downing Street. One of three mortar bombs slammed into garden behind building, exploding within 50 feet (15 metres) of the target.

April 1992 - Huge car bomb outside Baltic Exchange in London's financial district kills three people and wounds 91.

March 1993 - Bombs in two litter bins in Warrington kill two boys aged three and 12.

April 1993 - IRA truck bomb devastates Bishopsgate area of London's financial district, killing one and wounding 44.

February 1996 - Two people die when IRA paramilitaries detonate large bomb in London's Docklands area.

March 2001 - Car bomb explodes outside BBC's London headquarters. Police say the Real IRA, a republican splinter group opposed to the IRA's cease-fire, was behind the blast. One man was wounded.

May 2011 - A warning comes from Irish dissident republicans opposed to the peace process in Northern Ireland.

​

[dagger]

I talk a lot about leadership with vision and a plan mattering more than empty threats and "looking confident"

Here are a couple of analyses as to the complexity of responding to ISIS, and why ISIS itself has reached its limits.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/opinion/the-attacks-in-paris-reveal-the-strategic-limits-of-isis.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&_r=0

[mo32a]

I have no problem letting legitimate refugees into Canada, from any nation or area. However a full and complete security screening needs to be completed and passed prior to them arriving on our shores. The refugees we are anticipating receiving are not in harms way. They are in camps that are secure in safe havens. I would give priority for skilled workers and their families so that they can assimilate into Canadian culture with a minimum of problems. I would not house them together with a bunch of other refugees, I would spread them out and insert them a few at a time in many communities, not large centers where they can continue their dialogues with fellow refugees and feel "looked down upon" as a group and continue their struggles here.

We all know black/brown/(insert your colour here) individuals that are great folks, work alongside them, play alongside them, have them in your house etc. When you get a large group of these same folks housed together in the confines of a small area their individual problems become community problems and then we get the "poor downtrodden, not respected, mistreated" community that lashes out. This does no one any good. It galvanizes stereotypes in the mind of the other folks, and galvanizes their problems into riots or worse.

Slow down the acceptance rate, bring more than 25,000 if we need to, give them a full and complete security and health screening prior to arriving here, and then settle them a few at a time all over the country, including the northern territories, and do not set arbitrary dates for the bulk of them to arrive here.

That way we get a country that is comprised of many diverse nationalities who have chosen Canada as their home and embrace our values and culture.

[dagger]

I have no problem letting legitimate refugees into Canada, from any nation or area. However a full and complete security screening needs to be completed and passed prior to them arriving on our shores. The refugees we are anticipating receiving are not in harms way. They are in camps that are secure in safe havens. I would give priority for skilled workers and their families so that they can assimilate into Canadian culture with a minimum of problems. I would not house them together with a bunch of other refugees, I would spread them out and insert them a few at a time in many communities, not large centers where they can continue their dialogues with fellow refugees and feel "looked down upon" as a group and continue their struggles here.

We all know black/brown/(insert your colour here) individuals that are great folks, work alongside them, play alongside them, have them in your house etc. When you get a large group of these same folks housed together in the confines of a small area their individual problems become community problems and then we get the "poor downtrodden, not respected, mistreated" community that lashes out. This does no one any good. It galvanizes stereotypes in the mind of the other folks, and galvanizes their problems into riots or worse.

Slow down the acceptance rate, bring more than 25,000 if we need to, give them a full and complete security and health screening prior to arriving here, and then settle them a few at a time all over the country, including the northern territories, and do not set arbitrary dates for the bulk of them to arrive here.

That way we get a country that is comprised of many diverse nationalities who have chosen Canada as their home and embrace our values and culture.

I have read and heard that a significant number of the 25,000 will come from private sponsorships, both Church and secular organizations with good resources and some experience in immigrant reception, as well as established families bringing over relatives - like one brother bringing over another brother and his family. Many of these cases have been in progress for months or years, and have been processed to some degree even before the election. There wasn't the will or resources to bring them over faster. In some cases, these refugees would have waited until 2020 or longer to clear the process because of logistical obstacles.

I also expect that in the end, the 25,000 will not all arrive by Dec 31, but will all be in some stage of advanced processing by that date, including health and security checks being conducted overseas. Finally, the refugees from the war zone will be from different religions or denominations, and will include a lot of people from the Syrian middle classes, many of whom will speak some English or French.

[deicer]

Here's why this will continue without end....

http://usuncut.com/news/why-wall-street-is-cheering-after-paris-attacks/

[Lakelad]

.

Sask. Premier Brad Wall asks feds to suspend Syrian refugee plan

Paris attacks a 'grim reminder' of threat posed by 'malevolent individuals'

Mon Nov 16, 2015 - CBC News

Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall wants the federal government to suspend its plan to bring 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada by the end of the year.

In a letter to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Wall said he was concerned bringing in refugees could "undermine the refugee screening process."

"I understand that the overwhelming majority of refugees are fleeing violence and bloodshed and pose no threat to anyone," wrote Wall. "However, if even a small number of individuals who wish to do harm to our country are able to enter Canada as a result of a rushed refugee resettlement process, the results could be devastating."

In the letter, Wall cited the recent attacks in Paris last week, which killed 129 people.

"The recent attacks in Paris are a grim reminder of the death and destruction even a small number of malevolent individuals can inflict upon a peaceful country and its citizens," wrote Wall. "Surely, we do not want to be date-driven or numbers-driven in an endeavour that may affect the safety of our citizens and the security of our country."

Wall said he wants to see a "redoubling" of security checks before the refugees are brought into Canada.

Meanwhile, Saskatchewan Opposition leader Cam Broten accused Wall of "stirring up fear."

"Does Mr. Wall really think Ralph Goodale and the Canadian security authorities were just going to rubber stamp refugee claims without proper security checks?" wrote Broten in a news release. "Canada should have the best, most thorough security screening of all potential refugees, and we will."

In September, Saskatchewan asked the federal government to increase the number of refugees coming to Saskatchewan by 15 per cent.

Trudeau made the Syrian refugee announcement a key part of his election campaign. Health Minister Jane Philpott said more details on the plan would be released next week.

.

He's got company Alabama, Arkansas, Indiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Illinois, Arizona, North Carolina, Florida, Wisconsin and Mississippi and...

.

[Boney]

Mr. Trudeau,

I appreciate that you made an election, but given the incident in Paris, I will not hold you to your promise of bringing in these refugees by end of December. If it goes past that date to ensure that proper checks are done, so be it. In fact, you would gain more by being prudent vs being political.

Cheers.

[Moon The Loon]

The blog post DRAMATIC MUSINGS is the perfect example of screaming racism to shut up debate. You can hold an opinion against immigration and NOT be a racist!

Dagger, no doubt the Americans will continue their bellicosity, regardless of who is in office. They won't get elected unless they, at minimum, portray themselves to be 'tough'. The issue that now exist (the ones that scare the crap out of the Arab governments) is that there are power vacuums all across the Middle East. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Somalia and now Yemen (with Lebenon not having a functioning government for months and rapidly falling apart). In EVERY one of these countries Al Qaida, Al Shabab, ISIS or some other form of militancy has grown and are expanding. The West (well, the Americans primarily) destroyed the dictators that held these countries together. Saddam kept Iraq in peace for decades and while there were episodes such as the gassing of the Kurds he managed to keep the various religious groups from killing each other. Now the Sunnis, Shia, Kurds and other groups are killing each other daily. The exact same situation exists in Syria now, Somalia etc. But the West had to have 'democracy' and the dictators (most of whom attained power with American and the Wests blessing) had to go.

The 'military' in these countries have no desire to fight! The Iraqi Army has all but folded and refuses to fight. It won't change either. Tribal relations are more important than anything else in this part of the world and given a choice between the Iraqi Army and their own tribe (and religious sect) the army always loses. The American found this out slowly and much too late.

Now we are stuck with a Middle East where more than half the population lives in places with no government (at least no effective gov't) and war.

Spot on observations Trader.

The real culprit who caused all this to happen was the former POTUS, taking Sadaam down for his own self-glory and against the advice of his father.

This is not going to end nicely. France has formally declared war. NATO is absolutely obliged to support this declaration.

I fear for our young folks who will undoubtedly become involved in this unwinnable, untenable upcoming conflict.

[dagger]

This is not going to end nicely. France has formally declared war. NATO is absolutely obliged to support this declaration.

Not unless France invokes Article 5 of the NATO Charter, to convene a leaders' summit, which it hasn't and apparently won't.

[Guest]

Fact File: What we've learned so far about the Paris attacks

People place candles to pay tribute to the victims of the terror attacks in Paris by a poster which reads "Solidarity with Paris" in Nice, France, on Monday, Nov. 16, 2015. (AP Photo/Lionel Cironneau)

CTVNews.ca Staff

Published Monday, November 16, 2015 5:36PM EST

Last Updated Monday, November 16, 2015 6:12PM EST

As the situation in Paris continues to draw international condemnation, here’s the latest on what we know about Friday’s terrorist bombings and mass shootings, which killed at least 129 people and injured hundreds more.

Who were the attackers?

• Police said seven terrorists died during the attacks, six of them in suicide bombings and one by police gunfire.
• At least two others are accused of planning the attacks, including Salah Abdeslam, who was questioned by police near the Belgian border, but released.
• One of Abdeslam’s brothers detonated a suicide bomb during the attack.
• Four of the five attackers so far identified were French citizens. It is believed the other used a Syrian passport to enter the EU through Greece in October.
• Two of the suspects were Frenchmen who had been flagged for their radical views and both travelled to Syria.
• Police suspect that Abdelhamid Abaaoud, who grew up in Belgium, was also involved in the plot. A French official said he was also linked to thwarted train and church attacks.

How many others have been detained?

• At least seven were arrested in Belgium, where a major operation took place Monday in the Molenbeek neighbourhood of Brussels.
• A French security official said that 168 searches have led to 127 arrests and the seizure of 31 weapons.
• A Turkish security official said authorities arrested more than half a dozen people who had exchanged messages with the attackers in Paris.

Who were the victims?

• At least 89 people were killed inside the Bataclan concert hall, while at least 29 died at three restaurants. More than 350 were injured and many remain in hospitals.
• French President Francois Hollande said the victims were of 19 different nationalities. Among the dead are British, Italian, Spanish, Mexican, Chilean and American citizens.
• Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Monday that he has no knowledge of Canadians killed in the attack, but that there are unconfirmed reports Canadians were injured.

Was there any warning?

• A senior Turkish official said authorities twice flagged one of the suicide bombers in the Paris attacks to their French counterparts, but received no response.
• German authorities are investigating claims that an Algerian man detained Monday had warned fellow migrants at a refugee shelter of the impending attacks.
• U.S. President Barack Obama said he was not aware of “anything specific.”

Are more attacks planned?

• The Islamic State group released a video Monday vowing to attack other countries involved in the Syrian airstrikes, specifically pinpointing Washington.
• A Russian official revealed two women were detained in France and Austria ahead of the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi. They were plotting to smuggle explosives onto an aircraft in hand cream, the Russian said.
• British Prime Minister David Cameron said seven terror attacks have been foiled in Britain the past six months alone.
• ISIS has claimed responsibility for recent bombings in Lebanon and Turkey, as well as the downing of a Russian airplane in Egypt.
• Swedish security officials said they received a threat of attacks on Tuesday against the prime minister, the government and Parliament by email.

How is France responding?

• Hollande vowed to destroy ISIS. He said the attackers targeted "the France that likes life, culture, sports, parties."
• Hollande said he would table a bill to extend the country's state of emergency by three months. The state of emergency allows increased police powers to search people.
• The president said 5,000 more police will be hired in the next two years and that he will freeze cuts to the military through 2019.
• France's Defence Ministry said 12 aircraft dropped a total of 20 bombs Sunday night in the biggest air strikes since France extended its bombing campaign in September.
• The activist group Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said Monday that the French bombs had killed ISIS members in Raqqa and that there were no reports of civilian deaths.
• The French Police Union called on the EU to take over security in Molenbeek, Brussels, because they said the Belgian government has ceded to ISIS.

How is Canada responding?

• Trudeau said he will withdraw Canada’s CF-18 fighter jets from the U.S.-led coalition mission bombing Iraq and Syria.
• Trudeau also held firm on his plan to bring 25,000 refugees to Canada by the year end.
• Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall urged the federal government to prioritize the safety of Canadians by suspending the Liberals' self-imposed deadline to bring 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada by Jan. 1.
• Ontario’s legislature said it will fly the the French flag at half-mast for three days.

How are other countries reacting?

• Prince William will show solidarity with the French by attending Tuesday’s friendly football match against France.
• Norwegian police have postponed a planned decision to go unarmed and will continue carrying guns, a measure that was temporarily imposed after the 2011 terrorist attacks in that country.
• Britain plans to double spending on aviation security and recruit about more 1,900 security and intelligence agents, Cameron said Monday.
• German Chancellor Angela Merkel said at the G20 Summit in Turkey that world leaders “agreed that the challenge can't just be tackled with military means, but only a multitude of measures."

With files from The Associated Press and The Canadian Press

​

[Moon The Loon]

Not unless France invokes Article 5 of the NATO Charter, to convene a leaders' summit, which it hasn't and apparently won't.

I hope it so.

Some media comments tonight focus on ISIS/ISIL's desire to cement physical borders, much the same as the pre-formation of the state of Israel "terrorists" wanted in 1948.

If this is the case, let them have their territory. Let them have their borders. Let them become the new power base in that part of the world, the power base that was stripped by GWB. It won't be pretty; it won't be "just" by western standards - but it might consolidate regional power. It might be the answer to a very ugly, very lengthy, very costly global conflict.

Refugee generation? Millions....

[dagger]

I hope it so.

Some media comments tonight focus on ISIS/ISIL's desire to cement physical borders, much the same as the pre-formation of the state of Israel "terrorists" wanted in 1948.

If this is the case, let them have their territory. Let them have their borders. Let them become the new power base in that part of the world, the power base that was stripped by GWB. It won't be pretty; it won't be "just" by western standards - but it might consolidate regional power. It might be the answer to a very ugly, very lengthy, very costly global conflict.

Refugee generation? Millions....

Israel had a desire for physical borders in 1948. ISIS doctrine contains no such desire, in fact no particular territorial aspirations except to create that nebulous caliphate in territories they control. Borders are limiting. Apocalyptic cults do not see their world as self-limiting. I also found this article interesting, since we're obsessed with the threat ISIS poses. I'm not quite as optimistic as the ex-CSIS guy interviewed here, but believe that the threat here is much more limited. There could be a signature event, on a smaller scale than Paris, but not an on-going, fear-inspiring state of apprehension in countries like France and Belgium which are hotbeds of radicalsm

https://ipolitics.ca/2015/11/16/security-landscapes-in-canada-france-differ-experts-say/

[dagger]

Mr. Trudeau,

I appreciate that you made an election, but given the incident in Paris, I will not hold you to your promise of bringing in these refugees by end of December. If it goes past that date to ensure that proper checks are done, so be it. In fact, you would gain more by being prudent vs being political.

Cheers.

We should certainly observe all reasonable and practical security protocols in screening refugees, but let's face facts: Any evil-doer with an EU passport and not on a no-fly list can buy an airline ticket and fly to Canada, with a very high likelihood that he will be admitted on the spot as a tourist, free to do as he likes the instant he walks out of the airport. Refugees who do not fit a terrorist profile to begin with because of their age, family status (father/mother with young children and/or elderly parents) and who have been in refugee camps all along - as opposed to those who paid smugglers to get them into Europe and whose ranks might have been infiltrated - pose no reasonable threat to Canada.